Islam is unable to relate to the diverse contemporary cultures

[shunyadragon]

Not denied, in fact I could not agree more. The point of your post was...?

Islam is outdated and archaic, and cannot deal with a more universal diverse contemporary world, and actually contributes greatly to the violent instability and divisions of the world.

 

[Augustus]

Actually this is not accurate. Democracy evolved from older and other cultures other than Christianity. Democracy is not remotely a Biblical concept.

In the west the origin of Democracy js in 508–507 BC. Cleisthenes is referred to as "the father of Athenian democracy."

In America the earliest Democracy was Native American Iroquois Confederation acknowledged by the founding fathers as contributing to the principles of our Democracy.

Do you think that the Athenians practiced modern liberal democracy given it was a slave based society that viewed inequality as representing the natural order of things?

I believe the rise of humanism in the Age of Reason had a greater influence than Christianity. In particular the rise of the separation of church and state.

The separation of church and state powers began developing far earlier than "the age of reason". See for example the conflict between HRE Henry IV and Pope Gregory VII.

Yes there are significant differences,but a less biased view is helpful.

Or perhaps one based on a better knowledge of history

 

[Ancient Soul]

I acknowledge the problem for both Judaism and Christianity, but that would be the subject of another thread.

Does this forum have enough server room to cover all the problems with both Islam and Christianity?

 

[sun rise]

The major division of Islam into Sunni and Shia. Other numerous subsets and divisions just add to the confusion.

It matters a great deal to me which version of Islam we're talking about, even small groups, because you're painting with a very large brush.

Yes,Islam in the golden age made contributions to civilization, including the origination of the scientific method.

That's historical fact. And that was made during a time when certain dress codes and laws were much closer to the the origin of Islam than today.

But what you're referring to in large measure is that all cultures and religions are born, grow and make contributions to science and culture and finally ossify and become retrogressive. And eventually they die just like religions from thousands of years ago are now the province of archeologists.

Devotees of religion of course hate the thought that their religion won't live forever. But history has shown that anything born will sooner or later die.

I suspect Islam will be around for quite some time and there will be Muslims who make great contributions in art and science. But the culture that promoted such contributions is not what it was.

 

[Earthling]

I believe that at one time Islam was a light to the world and the spiritual renewal of civilization, but no more. As time passed Islam remained cloaked in ancient tribal culture, outdated Shiria Law, failure to separate religion from the secular state, violently divided and failure to acknowledge a diverse evolving world.

When did it allegedly change? Prior to that change was it different than it was now? That seems redundant but perhaps it was civilization that changed?

 

[Firemorphic]

Islam is outdated and archaic

Hold my beer

 

[Ancient Soul]

Given the Christian West produced modern liberal democracy, and the Islamic world didn't why should we assume that?

Christianity had a huge influence on political liberalism, gave birth to the concept of secularism and has constantly been updated to adapt to an evolving world (as has Islam, but less so due to greater theological rigidity).

Obviously there are also many problems it has caused, but on these points there are significant differences.

Go do some Internet research on all the torture, beatings, destruction of property, total or near total destruction of other religious writings, imprisonment, millions of murders, etc., that the Christian church has inflicted upon the world to force their mythology upon everyone. Also look up how they are STILL at it today wherever they can get away with it. Like who was behind the "Kill the Gays" law that was considered in Africa. And who is behind all the other persecution and imprisonment of gays all around the world.

 

[Ancient Soul]

You could also replace them with Baha'i and Baha'i Law.

I just found out about that spiritual teaching, so cannot agree or disagree with your statement.

 

[shunyadragon]

Do you think that the Athenians practiced modern liberal democracy given it was a slave based society that viewed inequality as representing the natural order of things?

You must realize that the American Democracy was a slave based economy justified by many on Biblical references.

The separation of church and state powers began developing far earlier than "the age of reason". See for example the conflict between HRE Henry IV and Pope Gregory VII.

Outrageously false, both Henry IV and Pope Gregory VII believed they ruled by Divine authority. It was a question of who appointed the Bishops. He went to Rome in a snow storm and begged forgiveness for his transgression against the authority of the Roman Church.

Or perhaps one based on a better knowledge of history

Which you apparently lack seriously.

 

[shunyadragon]

When did it allegedly change? Prior to that change was it different than it was now? That seems redundant but perhaps it was civilization that changed?

Civilization did change with the rise of the Age of Reason and the separation of church and state.

 

[shunyadragon]

You could also replace them with Baha'i and Baha'i Law.

Much preferred with much greater rights for women, separation of religion and state, Baha'is only must follow Baha'i Law, Law against all forms of slavery, and much more.

 

[shunyadragon]

Go do some Internet research on all the torture, beatings, destruction of property, total or near total destruction of other religious writings, imprisonment, millions of murders, etc., that the Christian church has inflicted upon the world to force their mythology upon everyone.

As I said before, I acknowledge the problems of Judaism and Christianity, and like Islam they rely on ancient world view and scripture to justify their religion

Also look up how they are STILL at it today wherever they can get away with it. Like who was behind the "Kill the Gays" law that was considered in Africa. And who is behind all the other persecution and imprisonment of gays all around the world.

Both Christianity and Islam.

 

[YmirGF]

I believe that at one time Islam was a light to the world and the spiritual renewal of civilization, but no more. As time passed Islam remained cloaked in ancient tribal culture, outdated Shiria Law, failure to separate religion from the secular state, violently divided and failure to acknowledge a diverse evolving world.

So far, so good. Is this supposed to be news though, @shunyadragon or is this a personal epiphany?

 

[shunyadragon]

It matters a great deal to me which version of Islam we're talking about, even small groups, because you're painting with a very large brush.

I, of course, I will acknowledge acceptions, and of course small peace loving sects, but the scripture of ancient religions looms large, and that adults may philosophy about reform and compromise, the scripture is taught to the children.

 

[shunyadragon]

So far, so good. Is this supposed to be news though, @shunyadragon or is this a personal epiphany?

Simply facts of history regardless of whether you are a believer or not.

 

[shunyadragon]

humor

It is a pleasure to humor you in the sidecar of discussion. You're easy to entertain. In the old days it took only a test screen on the TV.

 

[Ancient Soul]

As I said before, I acknowledge the problems of Judaism and Christianity, and like Islam they rely on ancient world view and scripture to justify their religion



Both Christianity and Islam.

Of course you can comment to anyone's post, but the way you worded it made it appear that you thought I was maybe differing with "you", but my reply was to "Augustus" who seemed to be defending Christianity as blameless.

 

[Vinayaka]

I researched the degree to which Sharia law is implemented in Islamic majority countries. or ones with a significant Islamic population. If truth be told, it was somewhat surprising. I thought it was more widespread than it is. Application of Islamic law by country - Wikipedia

 

[Firemorphic]

It is a pleasure to humor you in the sidecar of discussion.

Here on a thread about Islamic law, I'd think you were going to implement Baha'i law but instead you're actually implementing poe's law.

 

[shunyadragon]

Sunni and Shia are two worlds apart.

. . . and that is part of the unfortunate problem, and they do not get along.