Islam, the unexploded bomb

[Debater Slayer]

Imagine that there is an unexploded bomb or mine or some such buried in your back yard. You know you must walk carefully to avoid triggering an explosion, that the bomb might go off by itself, or that the brat next door might chuck a stone over the fence, blowing up your yard.

Most Muslims are good people, but they follow a religion that explicitly calls for the extermination of non-muslims. Fortunately almost everyone is more moral than their religion, so that is rarely a problem.

However, the chance of an explosion is always there. For example when the metaphorical brat throws a cartoon over the metaphorical fence, the result is an explosion of threats, murderous riots and killings.

How can Muslims allay the suspicion of themselves that this situation produces?

1) There is nothing in the Qur'an or authentic hadiths that says Muslims should exterminate non-Muslims.

2) Your analysis of religion is simplistic. By the same token that lets you say, "Almost everyone is more moral than their religion" based on supposed bad teachings, we can say, "Almost everyone is less moral than their religion" based on the good parts of religion.

I find religion, including Islam, to be a complicated mix of good, bad, and everything in between. One-dimensional arguments don't hold much water in the face of reality.

3) Muslims can allay this suspicion the same way atheists can allay the suspicion of anti-atheists that all atheists are immoral, perverted individuals or the suspicion of anti-Jews that all Jews are conspiring and nefarious people: by pointing out that over-generalizations and simplistic thinking are intellectually bankrupt on a fundamental level.

Islam is not a monolithic entity, nor are Muslims uniform in what they believe about social, political, or even religious issues. There are Muslims who disagree with the average Muslim more than they disagree with the average European or American atheist.

Life ain't simple.

 

[icehorse]

Not really and I find it funny that people here on RF with their own issues have the audacity to talk about what God needs to do. First, get out of your own damn situation.

what situation is that?

More to the point, any criticism should stand or fall on its own merits. It should not matter who makes the criticism, correct?

 

[icehorse]

Please show where does it say in the Quran that Muslims must exterminate non-Muslims?

I'm sorry, this point has been asked and answered many times on this forum. This feels like a LMGTFY moment. Of course the Quran says this. More specifically, non Muslims are offered three options:

- convert
- be subjugated
- be killed

Start with 2:191

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I don't believe violence should be committed in the name of God.

The audacity to question and infer a fallible and flawed God when you, the human a minute irrelevant, and insignificant thing when it comes to the universe can question something beyond your own intellect is rather ignorant and reeks of conceit. Yes, you rather be a compassionate drug addict, makes as much sense as a compassionate pedophile. I just tire of the Islam threads and then you make subsequent comments about what God is and isn't while you, in your own confusion make these ambiguous religious beliefs you proclaim to have. One of the very first lessons I've learned while working in the healthcare field is being a human is a finite existence. The pop of a blood vessel in yor head can cease your existence. It is better to be humble when looking at the grand scheme of things in existence. Sure we all get mad at God for not intervening but there are things in this life i question and there are things I just leave alone. If you're going to judge the morality of God first focus on your own life.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

what situation is that?

More to the point, any criticism should stand or fall on its own merits. It should not matter who makes the criticism, correct?

It does matter who makes the criticism. Should a perpetual drug addict chastise someone about sobriety?

 

[sayak83]

I'm sorry, this point has been asked and answered many times on this forum. This feels like a LMGTFY moment. Of course the Quran says this. More specifically, non Muslims are offered three options:

- convert
- be subjugated
- be killed

Start with 2:191

And this point has been comprehensively refuted how many times now? It is incomprehensible how any rational person can't or won't understand such simple reading comprehension tasks.

 

[sun rise]

3) Muslims can allay this suspicion the same way atheists can allay the suspicion of anti-atheists that all atheists are immoral, perverted individuals or the suspicion of anti-Jews that all Jews are conspiring and nefarious people: by pointing out that over-generalizations and simplistic thinking are intellectually bankrupt on a fundamental level.

And I think more important, by their very lives being refutation in action. And part of this is avoiding religious tribalism. Christians need to call out the actions of those who are negative as do Jews and Muslims. And as I look around, I see this happening.

Of course, the media feeds on promoting feelings of fear and anger to drive people to consume commercials. But stories like the following are the kind of thing that is out there if one looks Jew, Christian, Muslim: 'See the Beloved everywhere'

 

[stvdv]

God has done just that. Over 100 Volumes were written by Baha'u'llah (Glory if God). Baha'u'llah is the Spirit of Truth to guide us to all Truth.

Regards Tony

God has done better this time, sending Poorna Avatar Sai Baba giving the latest update. Not a messenger, bring it Himself. Discourses + books

 

[TransmutingSoul]

God has done better this time, sending Poorna Avatar Sai Baba giving the latest update. Not a messenger, bring it Himself. Discourses + books

What was said about Muhammad and Islam?

Regards Tony

 

[Notanumber]

Please show where does it say in the Quran that Muslims must exterminate non-Muslims?

The Koran is only part of Islam.

 

[Notanumber]

And this point has been comprehensively refuted how many times now? It is incomprehensible how any rational person can't or won't understand such simple reading comprehension tasks.

Some of us will not be brainwashed.

 

[exchemist]

Jews follow a faith with a superiority complex.

Christians follow a faith that has justified the condemnation and continual violence in the name of Christ.

How is Islam any different?

It is because of the practice of American Christianity that I have lost my ancestral history in the states. I don't blame Islam for that.



Allay?

English?

Yes, allay: Definition of ALLAY

Seems like a quite correct use of English to me.

 

[exchemist]

Some of us will not be brainwashed.

...thus demonstrating that some of us already have been........

 

[Notanumber]

...thus demonstrating that some of us already have been........

I agree. It started about 1400 years ago.

 

[Looncall]

And this point has been comprehensively refuted how many times now? It is incomprehensible how any rational person can't or won't understand such simple reading comprehension tasks.

Please direct me to some of these. I would like to have a look at them. The anti-non-muslim stuff seems pretty common in the Quran.

 

[Looncall]

It does matter who makes the criticism. Should a perpetual drug addict chastise someone about sobriety?

Why not? Their "lived experience" gives them insight.

 

[Looncall]

1) There is nothing in the Qur'an or authentic hadiths that says Muslims should exterminate non-Muslims.

2) Your analysis of religion is simplistic. By the same token that lets you say, "Almost everyone is more moral than their religion" based on supposed bad teachings, we can say, "Almost everyone is less moral than their religion" based on the good parts of religion.

I find religion, including Islam, to be a complicated mix of good, bad, and everything in between. One-dimensional arguments don't hold much water in the face of reality.

3) Muslims can allay this suspicion the same way atheists can allay the suspicion of anti-atheists that all atheists are immoral, perverted individuals or the suspicion of anti-Jews that all Jews are conspiring and nefarious people: by pointing out that over-generalizations and simplistic thinking are intellectually bankrupt on a fundamental level.

Islam is not a monolithic entity, nor are Muslims uniform in what they believe about social, political, or even religious issues. There are Muslims who disagree with the average Muslim more than they disagree with the average European or American atheist.

Life ain't simple.

Sure, but they are all using the same "holy book". While it may be benign for some, others can use it to justify atrocities. Therein lies the danger.

It takes just one deranged imam to send thousands raging into the streets rioting and killing.

By the way, I'm not an admirer of " holy books" generally. I prefer reason and good will. The ancient Romans, when laws failed to settle a dispute, looked to "what a reasonable person of good will would decide" or some such wording (memory is becoming dim with age).

My impression is that reliance on these books brings atrophy of ability to reason about morality etc. I remember reading the people doing development work in Afghanistan found their efforts futile unless they could be presented in a Quranic context.

 

[England my lionheart]

Imagine that there is an unexploded bomb or mine or some such buried in your back yard. You know you must walk carefully to avoid triggering an explosion, that the bomb might go off by itself, or that the brat next door might chuck a stone over the fence, blowing up your yard.

Most Muslims are good people, but they follow a religion that explicitly calls for the extermination of non-muslims. Fortunately almost everyone is more moral than their religion, so that is rarely a problem.

However, the chance of an explosion is always there. For example when the metaphorical brat throws a cartoon over the metaphorical fence, the result is an explosion of threats, murderous riots and killings.

How can Muslims allay the suspicion of themselves that this situation produces?

Islam's problem is it doesn't allow criticism or innovation so it's stuck in a 7th century mythology and sometimes it seems Muhammed is praised as much as their god.

Like Christianity it's a very powerful political tool,politics and religion are peas from the same pod,the difference now is your unlikely to be burned at the stake in Christianity whereas apostasy in Islam is harshly treated.

Although there are 1.6 billion or so Muslims there are different schools and sects so a broad brush cannot be used but its easy to see the flaws in their book and so called prophet,its obvious why Muslims can't.

Is Islam an unexploded bomb?, I think it's a dud because the bomb has too many parts to explode, rather it let's off a few fireworks now and then, it is though a violent religion, its a common theme in the abrahmics religions Imo.

 

[oldbadger]

Imagine that there is an unexploded bomb or mine or some such buried in your back yard. You know you must walk carefully to avoid triggering an explosion, that the bomb might go off by itself, or that the brat next door might chuck a stone over the fence, blowing up your yard.

Most Muslims are good people, but they follow a religion that explicitly calls for the extermination of non-muslims. Fortunately almost everyone is more moral than their religion, so that is rarely a problem.

However, the chance of an explosion is always there. For example when the metaphorical brat throws a cartoon over the metaphorical fence, the result is an explosion of threats, murderous riots and killings.

How can Muslims allay the suspicion of themselves that this situation produces?

Nah......
Your thread title could have been more accurate if it had read, : 'Mankind.... the unexploded bomb'.

In all of the World Wars of the last 100 years it was 'other countries and cultures' which kicked everything off. In fact Muslims fought to put the international criminals (of those times) down.

There are many guerrilla extremists out there, but none of them has the wherewithal to cause a mass extermination attack upon any country with such bombs..

 

[FearGod]

There is a lot of hate and bigotry in both the Bible and the Qur'an. The Qur'an contains more graphic tortures that disturb me, and more Muslims act out the message in the Qur'an compared to people that act out the hate in the Bible.

I truly think God needs to write a new book. The Bible and the Qur'an makes me sick, despite most of both books is not bad. It just takes 1 or 2% of highly toxic content to make something good become deadly though.. Yes, since Muslims are more likely to practice the barbaric stuff than Jews or Christians, any nation should be very suspicious of accepting large amounts of Islamic immigrants into the free world.

One thing is, many of them have never seen a woman dress as American, European, Russian, or Australian women dress. Many have lived in nations where the veil is required and the attitude is that an unveiled woman is asking to be molested.

I don't know what the solution is.

Do you think ww1&2 were caused do you to the bible and the quran?
Do you think that the world will avoid a third war if the bible and the quran were thrown away?