Islam will never allow Homosexuality

[mojtaba]

So this cannot be changed even when thousands or more homosexual "Imams"comes.

Are there scholars who defend from homosexuality by Islamic texts?!!!

So sad!

Let's call them non-scholar scholars!

 

[McBell]

What are the hard evidences, please?

I wonder if the claimed "hard evidences" will ever be presented?

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

What are the hard evidences, please?

From Quran and Hadiths. Homosexuality is strongly rejected and condemned in quran and sunnah. This is something agreed by Sunnis and every other sect.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

From Quran and Hadiths. Homosexuality is strongly rejected and condemned in quran and sunnah. This is something agreed by Sunnis and every other sect.

I'm a Muslim and I don't strongly reject homosexuality.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Holy Quran, Chapter 27

54.[We also sent] Lot, when he said to his people, ‘What! Do you commit this indecency while you look on?

55.Do you approach men with [sexual] desire instead of women?! Indeed, you are a senseless lot!’

56.But the only answer of his people was that they said, ‘Expel Lot’s family from your town! They are indeed a puritanical lot.’

Salaam,

These verses are about a certain kind of homosexual behaviour. Note the reference to men. Where are the references to homosexual women?

Wassalaam

 

[mojtaba]

Salaam,

These verses are about a certain kind of homosexual behaviour. Note the reference to men. Where are the references to homosexual women?

Wassalaam

Salamun Alaykum wa Rahmatullah.

Dear Yaquub, the following is the verse which generally talks about Halal and Haram sexual intercorses; Holy Quran, Chapter 23

بِسْمِ اللَّـهِ الرَّحْمَـٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ
قَدْ أَفْلَحَ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ ﴿١﴾ الَّذِينَ هُمْ فِي صَلَاتِهِمْ خَاشِعُونَ ﴿٢﴾وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ عَنِ اللَّغْوِ مُعْرِضُونَ ﴿٣﴾ وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ لِلزَّكَاةِ فَاعِلُونَ﴿٤﴾ وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ لِفُرُوجِهِمْ حَافِظُونَ ﴿٥﴾ إِلَّا عَلَىٰ أَزْوَاجِهِمْ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ غَيْرُ مَلُومِينَ ﴿٦﴾ فَمَنِ ابْتَغَىٰ وَرَاءَ ذَٰلِكَ فَأُولَـٰئِكَ هُمُ الْعَادُونَ ﴿٧﴾ـ​

In the Name of Allah, the All-beneficent, the All-merciful;
Certainly, the faithful have attained salvation(1) —those who are humble in their prayers, (2)avoid vain talk, (3) carry out their [duty of] zakat, (4) guard their private parts, (5) (except from their spouses or their slave women, for then they are not blameworthy; (6) but whoever seeks [anything] beyond that—it is they who are transgressors), (7)

According to these holy verses, homosexuality, masturbation and adultery are prohibited.

 

[mojtaba]

It should be said that hugging and kissing men by men, or women by women without lustful or ill intentions when they meet eachother, are not called homosexuality and then are not prohibited in Islam. Instead, they are indeed recommended.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Salamun Alaykum wa Rahmatullah.

Dear Yaquub, the following is the verse which generally talks about Halal and Haram sexual intercorses; Holy Quran, Chapter 23

بِسْمِ اللَّـهِ الرَّحْمَـٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ
قَدْ أَفْلَحَ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ ﴿١﴾ الَّذِينَ هُمْ فِي صَلَاتِهِمْ خَاشِعُونَ ﴿٢﴾وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ عَنِ اللَّغْوِ مُعْرِضُونَ ﴿٣﴾ وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ لِلزَّكَاةِ فَاعِلُونَ﴿٤﴾ وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ لِفُرُوجِهِمْ حَافِظُونَ ﴿٥﴾ إِلَّا عَلَىٰ أَزْوَاجِهِمْ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ غَيْرُ مَلُومِينَ ﴿٦﴾ فَمَنِ ابْتَغَىٰ وَرَاءَ ذَٰلِكَ فَأُولَـٰئِكَ هُمُ الْعَادُونَ ﴿٧﴾ـ​

In the Name of Allah, the All-beneficent, the All-merciful;
Certainly, the faithful have attained salvation(1) —those who are humble in their prayers, (2)avoid vain talk, (3) carry out their [duty of] zakat, (4) guard their private parts, (5) (except from their spouses or their slave women, for then they are not blameworthy; (6) but whoever seeks [anything] beyond that—it is they who are transgressors), (7)

According to these holy verses, homosexuality, masturbation and adultery are prohibited.

Salaam,

There is nothing in these verses specific to homosexuality.

Wassalaam

 

[Shad]

I'm a Muslim and I don't strongly reject homosexuality.

What do you mean by "strongly"?

Thanks

 

[Smart_Guy]

Guys, remember, the Quran refers to the action of homosexual intercourse, not homosexuality itself. So I believe they have nothing against themselves as long as they don't do it practically.

And God knows better (this Islamic expressions means I could be right or wrong).

 

[The_Fisher_King]

What do you mean by "strongly"?

Thanks

I was just repeating the wording in the post to which I was responding. I don't in fact reject homosexuality per se at all (although I do have a bit of a problem with anal sex).

 

[Smart_Guy]

Salamun Alaykum wa Rahmatullah.

Dear Yaquub, the following is the verse which generally talks about Halal and Haram sexual intercorses; Holy Quran, Chapter 23

بِسْمِ اللَّـهِ الرَّحْمَـٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ
قَدْ أَفْلَحَ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ ﴿١﴾ الَّذِينَ هُمْ فِي صَلَاتِهِمْ خَاشِعُونَ ﴿٢﴾وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ عَنِ اللَّغْوِ مُعْرِضُونَ ﴿٣﴾ وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ لِلزَّكَاةِ فَاعِلُونَ﴿٤﴾ وَالَّذِينَ هُمْ لِفُرُوجِهِمْ حَافِظُونَ ﴿٥﴾ إِلَّا عَلَىٰ أَزْوَاجِهِمْ أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ غَيْرُ مَلُومِينَ ﴿٦﴾ فَمَنِ ابْتَغَىٰ وَرَاءَ ذَٰلِكَ فَأُولَـٰئِكَ هُمُ الْعَادُونَ ﴿٧﴾ـ​

In the Name of Allah, the All-beneficent, the All-merciful;
Certainly, the faithful have attained salvation(1) —those who are humble in their prayers, (2)avoid vain talk, (3) carry out their [duty of] zakat, (4) guard their private parts, (5) (except from their spouses or their slave women, for then they are not blameworthy; (6) but whoever seeks [anything] beyond that—it is they who are transgressors), (7)

According to these holy verses, homosexuality, masturbation and adultery are prohibited.

It also includes fornication in the list. In Western terms, they are different.

But for the subject at hand, I believe what you said earlier here:

Holy Quran, Chapter 27

54.[We also sent] Lot, when he said to his people, ‘What! Do you commit this indecency while you look on?

55.Do you approach men with [sexual] desire instead of women?! Indeed, you are a senseless lot!’

56.But the only answer of his people was that they said, ‘Expel Lot’s family from your town! They are indeed a puritanical lot.’

Is specific and enough when it comes to homosexuality and I believe it should compliment what you said above in a single post. I'll repeat the highlights with some explanation for the viewers:

Quran chapter 27, verses 54-55:
And Lot, when he said to his people, "Do you commit immorality/sin while you are seeing?"
You approach men with desire/lust instead of women? Rather, you are a people behaving ignorantly."

Quran chapter 7, verses 80-81:
And Lot when he said to his people, "Do you commit such immorality/sin no one has preceded you with from among the worlds?
You approach men with desire/lust, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people."

The above verses clearly call homosexual lustful acts an immorality/a sin, and sins are obviously forbidden to practice in Islam as so many verses say so, including this:
Quran chapter 7, verse 33 (first segment):
Say, "My Lord has forbidden immoralities; what is apparent of them and what is concealed, and sin.

With that said, I believe there is no doubt that homosexual lustful acts are forbidden in Islam. That's my view of it

 

[The_Fisher_King]

It also includes fornication in the list. In Western terms, they are different.

But for the subject at hand, I believe what you said earlier here:


Is specific and enough when it comes to homosexuality and I believe it should compliment what you said above in a single post. I'll repeat the highlights with some explanation for the viewers:

Quran chapter 27, verses 54-55:
And Lot, when he said to his people, "Do you commit immorality/sin while you are seeing?"
You approach men with desire/lust instead of women? Rather, you are a people behaving ignorantly."

Quran chapter 7, verses 80-81:
And Lot when he said to his people, "Do you commit such immorality/sin no one has preceded you with from among the worlds?
You approach men with desire/lust, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people."

The above verses clearly call homosexual lustful acts an immorality/a sin, and sins are obviously forbidden to practice in Islam as so many verses say so, including this:
Quran chapter 7, verse 33 (first segment):
Say, "My Lord has forbidden immoralities; what is apparent of them and what is concealed, and sin.

With that said, I believe there is no doubt that homosexual lustful acts are forbidden in Islam. That's my view of it

Salaam,

But these verses refer to men desiring to have sex with other men as they (might) have sex with women (i.e. anal sexual intercourse, which is the closest two men can get to the 'archetypal' sexual intercourse between a man and a woman). That does not cover all forms of homosexual sexual expression between men, let alone homosexual sexual expression between women.

So the Holy Qur'aan is not condemning homosexuality (as a sexual orientation) or all homosexual sexual actions. That is my view. Happy to debate further with people if you want if this gets moved across to the same faith debating thread.

Wassalaam

 

[Smart_Guy]

Salaam,

But these verses refer to men desiring to have sex with other men as they (might) have sex with women (i.e. anal sexual intercourse, which is the closest two men can get to the 'archetypal' sexual intercourse between a man and a woman). That does not cover all forms of homosexual sexual expression between men, let alone homosexual sexual expression between women.

So the Holy Qur'aan is not condemning homosexuality (as a sexual orientation) or all homosexual sexual actions. That is my view. Happy to debate further with people if you want if this gets moved across to the same faith debating thread.

Wassalaam

I see your point. I'm not really debating it, I'm just sharing my view. Thank you for sharing yours.

Just to clarify my stance; the verses say "approach men with desire/lust", it does not specify details which means it's generalizing (the word "approach" in the original Arabic text, which is my mother tongue, refers to the physical approach). When that happens; i.e. generalization of a rule, I cannot follow my heart and bring some details up to satisfy myself and others. Approaching women with desire/lust (which is okay) could be in any physical way, not just penetration. This includes (forgive me for the crude examples, but this is education) oral sex, lustful cuddling, explicit kissing, lustful body bare skin contact or any other physical lustful acts. Those are included in the generalization the verses provided.

But the thing is, which kinda stands in your favor, in school I learned that the punishable homosexual act scholars decided is penetration. They did not refer to other acts. The above paragraph is my understanding of the Quran. That of course does not mean anything against or in favor of any other acts just because they didn't talk about it. Rape is another story.

 

[Shad]

I was just repeating the wording in the post to which I was responding. I don't in fact reject homosexuality per se at all (although I do have a bit of a problem with anal sex).

Sorry I should of supplied a bit more details regarding my question. I didn't want to my question to be seen as leading.

Do you accept or reject that homosexuals can be married?
Can they be married within Islam?
Can they be married by a secular marriage license?
Can they be married by a secular license within an Islamic nation? (The nation has secular marriages as lawful along side Islamic marriage)
Any views regarding finances? (inheritance, wills, social benefits, etc.)

Simply put do your views go beyond what you tolerate? Do your views extend into social and religious issues, and the conflict between both, over the topic in question

I have heard and read views from moderate imans that try to address issues with homosexuality and Islam. Another comparison could be moderate Christians that accept same-sex marriage within their view of religion. Do you align with such views?

Thanks again.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Do you accept or reject that homosexuals can be married?

I don't have any problem with the idea of homosexuals getting married.

Can they be married within Islam?

Within my version of Islaam, yes. Can't speak for other people's versions.

Can they be married by a secular marriage license?

I'm not going to stand in their way.

Can they be married by a secular license within an Islamic nation?

No doubt that depends on the Muslim nation. I am not familiar with the laws of different Muslim nations.

Any views regarding finances? (inheritance, wills, social benefits, etc.)

Could you be a bit more specific?

Simply put do your views go beyond what you tolerate?

I don't understand this question.

Do your views extend into social and religious issues, and the conflict between both, over the topic in question

I see no distinction between social and religious issues, so there is no conflict in my eyes. Everything is religious.

I have heard and read views from moderate imans that try to address issues with homosexuality and Islam. Another comparison could be moderate Christians that accept same-sex marriage within their view of religion. Do you align with such views?

You're going to have to outline the views in question, and then I can tell you whether my views align with them.

 

[Shad]

Could you be a bit more specific?

This lines of questions was more about the social and financial issues face by same-sex couples when there was no legal standing for such a union. However since you accept same-sex marriage within your view of Islam these questions are resolved. Unless there are some guidelines you do not think apply or have restrictions placed upon a view. For example one of the issues facing homosexual was about rights within a tradition marriage such as visitation did not apply to same-sex couples.

I don't understand this question.

This was about tolerance versus acceptance. One can tolerate a same-sex couple but reject they can be married with Islam. However from what you have posted your view is that of acceptance since you have no issues with same-sex relationships within Islam.

I see no distinction between social and religious issues, so there is no conflict in my eyes. Everything is religious.

Think of secular nations in which religion is not a guiding principle in law or policy, well is claimed to be, opposed to nation which use religion with laws. Sweden, Canada, etc vs Saudi Arabia, Iran.

You're going to have to outline the views in question, and then I can tell you whether my views align with them.

It hard to create an outline since a lot of these views vary and the sources are incomplete. Most of the sources are specific to present issues within religion such as same-sex marriage and how to address homosexuality. You have no said anything drastically different from what I have heard and read. You seem to align with being inclusive rather than a conformist. For example you do not define marriage as strictly between a man and a woman.

Again thanks.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Unless there are some guidelines you do not think apply or have restrictions placed upon a view.

I see marriage as nothing more than a contract between two or more parties (whatever their gender, sex or sexual orientation). Pretty much like any other contract. As long as the parties in question are capable of giving their free and fully informed consent, it is up to the parties themselves to set the terms of the contract.

Think of secular nations in which religion is not a guiding principle in law or policy, well is claimed to be, opposed to nation which use religion with laws. Sweden, Canada, etc vs Saudi Arabia, Iran.

Okay, but I'm still not getting your question, I'm afraid. For what's it worth my ideal state would be a theocratic one. In that sense, my ideal state would be closer to the basis for law in Iran or Saudi Arabia or for that matter ISIL (although I differ quite fundamentally from each of them in my interpretation of how such an Islaamic state should be structured and the freedoms that should be given to its citizens).

You seem to align with being inclusive rather than a conformist.

That's probably a reasonable approximation to my views

For example you do not define marriage as strictly between a man and a woman.

No, see my definition of marriage above.

 

[Godobeyer]

Within my version of Islaam, yes. Can't speak for other people's versions.

Salam brother , It's first time in my life (I am 36 old) , I discover that Islam had versions !

Someone update my version please

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Salam brother , It's first time in my life (I am 36 old) , I discover that Islam had versions !

Someone update my version please