Islamaphobia - Years later, I accept its a real/true phenomena and an industry

[icehorse]

No that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying that the west is always trying to bully everyone else into submission. People like yourself are part of the problem with your white supremacist views.

I'm a secular humanist, and an advocate for Universal Human Rights. But thanks for asking

 

[EsonauticSage]

I'm a secular humanist, and an advocate for Universal Human Rights. But thanks for asking

I do know that, this is why I said that.

 

[icehorse]

I do know that, this is why I said that.

Wait, what? So you're saying that advocating for Universal Human Rights puts me in the category of "white supremacist"?

Ok, I'm stumped, can you connect those dots for me??

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I have only one question.
Have you thought about what media are portraying Islam to be are 99% of the time about ISIS or other terror groups.

I was rather explicit in saying that it doesn't just concern the media.
Obviously media will be focussing on the "sensational" and the "bad".
The thing is though, they can't do this with christianity for example, because christianity doesn't have a boatload of "militia's" determined to rage havoc and chaos through terrorist attacks with suicide vests in crowded market places or similar.

Yes, the media will rather report the attrocities of ISIS rather then "a day in the life" of the decent muslim who just goes about his daily business and paying his taxes.

The media also reports about how several mosques in belgium voluntarily suggested suspending their services and offering up the mosque buildings as "field hospitals" for Covid19 patients in case hospital beds were short.

It really isn't as one sided as people make it out to be. It just so happens that there is a LOT of bad bs to tell about muslim militia's and their attrocities.

When's the last time a christian militia violently conquered an area comparable to IS's "caliphate" as they did in Iraq and Syria, followed by brutal medieval style executions, prosecution and torture? Right, that's been a while. You'ld have to go back several centuries at least, perhaps even as far back as the crusades.

That just doesn't happen anymore today. Meanwhile, the list of violent islamic militia's / terrorist groups is rather huge. If it's one or two groups, you can sort of write it off as some kind of sect and the "odd one out". But the list of groups is far to huge to continue denying that this phenomenon is completely unrelated to the religion that unites and inspires them all.

But the good God fearing people who live their life in the most peaceful way does not get in to the news, because that is not what sells?

Obviously, as I just acknowledged. But again: there have to be terrorist groups committing attrocities to report on first, before one can report on it.

And the list of such groups and such acts is HUGE. So huge that you can't just seperate them from the religion that inspires all of them and pretend as if the religion has nothing to do with it.

Example is my friend here in Norway. She is one of the most calm people I have ever know, she always help others with no egoistic thought of doing it for benefit of her self.
Yes she wear a hijab, but she does not go around scaring others.
She accept other religions but of course she feel Islam is best for her, just like I feel Falun Gong is best for me.

It's like you completely ignored the parts in the post you reply to that I fully acknowledged that the vast majority of muslims are decent folks who have no mentionworthy hostile beliefs at all towards westerners / non-muslims.

Also, just FYI, half my family is muslim. My intel on islam / muslims and muslim communities doesn't just come from anecdotes and western media. No... eventhough I'm not a muslim myself (never was and never willbe), half my family is.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I was rather explicit in saying that it doesn't just concern the media.
Obviously media will be focussing on the "sensational" and the "bad".
The thing is though, they can't do this with christianity for example, because christianity doesn't have a boatload of "militia's" determined to rage havoc and chaos through terrorist attacks with suicide vests in crowded market places or similar.

Yes, the media will rather report the attrocities of ISIS rather then "a day in the life" of the decent muslim who just goes about his daily business and paying his taxes.

The media also reports about how several mosques in belgium voluntarily suggested suspending their services and offering up the mosque buildings as "field hospitals" for Covid19 patients in case hospital beds were short.

It really isn't as one sided as people make it out to be. It just so happens that there is a LOT of bad bs to tell about muslim militia's and their attrocities.

When's the last time a christian militia violently conquered an area comparable to IS's "caliphate" as they did in Iraq and Syria, followed by brutal medieval style executions, prosecution and torture? Right, that's been a while. You'ld have to go back several centuries at least, perhaps even as far back as the crusades.

That just doesn't happen anymore today. Meanwhile, the list of violent islamic militia's / terrorist groups is rather huge. If it's one or two groups, you can sort of write it off as some kind of sect and the "odd one out". But the list of groups is far to huge to continue denying that this phenomenon is completely unrelated to the religion that unites and inspires them all.




Obviously, as I just acknowledged. But again: there have to be terrorist groups committing attrocities to report on first, before one can report on it.

And the list of such groups and such acts is HUGE. So huge that you can't just seperate them from the religion that inspires all of them and pretend as if the religion has nothing to do with it.



It's like you completely ignored the parts in the post you reply to that I fully acknowledged that the vast majority of muslims are decent folks who have no mentionworthy hostile beliefs at all towards westerners / non-muslims.

Also, just FYI, half my family is muslim. My intel on islam / muslims and muslim communities doesn't just come from anecdotes and western media. No... eventhough I'm not a muslim myself (never was and never willbe), half my family is.

I am glad many in your family is Muslims.

I do not ignore parts of questions, but I have my view on Muslims and their belief. And no I am not hostile toward Muslims.
Terrorist who use Islam as a shield can not be taken serioues

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I have my view on Muslims and Islam, you have yours.

But your views are malinformed....
Remember the "99.999%" figure you invented on the spot.

Now look at the actual statistics:

Data taken from this reasearchgate publication

Yes, this shows - as acknowledged multiple times - that the (vast) majority are likely decent folks that in no way support islamic terrorist groups or their ideologis.

But it also shows that the level of support for such ideologies and groups is far far bigger then you seem to be willing to acknowledge. You'll find that similar polls taken from western muslims, show similar results. I consider these figures to be quite disturbing and a reflection of a far deeper problem then just "some marginal groups that have nothing to do with islam". The actual approval ratings are far too big to just write it off like that. In belgium, and most other democracies that don't just consist of 2 parties, such approval ratings could actually grant you a seat in parliament. You can't just ignore such percentages.

If we extrapolate such figures worldwide, we are talking about 10s of millions, even 100 million, of people.

I do not support terror groups

Never said or implied that you did.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

When you say “a lot of Muslims support al Aida and isis etc” what percentage of Muslims is that?

I just posted a few statistics in my previous post.

Depending on country, it goes from 1 (in israel ) to as high as 25% in palestine.
No figures here for afghanistan, but I think it's a safe assumption that it was / is even higher there.

Most seem to fall somewhere between 10 and 18%. That's a huge amount of people.


As for ISIS, the "approval rating" is lower, but still quite significant, with most falling into the 5 to 11% interval. Again a huge amount of people. A minority, but nevertheless a huge amount of people. We're talking in millions, not in thousands.

 

[Spirit of Light]

But your views are malinformed....
Remember the "99.999%" figure you invented on the spot.

Now look at the actual statistics:

View attachment 41662
View attachment 41663

View attachment 41664

View attachment 41665

Data taken from this reasearchgate publication

Yes, this shows - as acknowledged multiple times - that the (vast) majority are likely decent folks that in no way support islamic terrorist groups or their ideologis.

But it also shows that the level of support for such ideologies and groups is far far bigger then you seem to be willing to acknowledge. You'll find that similar polls taken from western muslims, show similar results. I consider these figures to be quite disturbing and a reflection of a far deeper problem then just "some marginal groups that have nothing to do with islam". The actual approval ratings are far too big to just write it off like that. In belgium, and most other democracies that don't just consist of 2 parties, such approval ratings could actually grant you a seat in parliament. You can't just ignore such percentages.

If we extrapolate such figures worldwide, we are talking about 10s of millions, even 100 million, of people.



Never said or implied that you did.

Take the same questions and ask how many Americans support killing of muslims after 9/11. You will see a major support for killing innocent muslims

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I am glad many in your family is Muslims.

Well, I'm not really, but that's another story.

I do not ignore parts of questions, but I have my view on Muslims and their belief. And no I am not hostile toward Muslims.

I am very much hostile to muslims who adhere to harmfull islamic interpretations - no matter what form that harm takes up (be it throwing gay people off of buildings or prohibiting females to get a proper education or the opportunity to have professional carreer as she sees fit)

Terrorist who use Islam as a shield can not be taken serioues

It's not their shield. It's their inspiration and motivation, as well as the tool used to recruite fighters.

You should stop sticking your head in the sand.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Take the same questions and ask how many Americans support killing of muslims after 9/11. You will see a major support for killing innocent muslims

Don't try to change the subject.

The actual stats clearly show your own invented figures to be seriously off the mark and that general support / sympathy for radical jihadi ideology is FAR bigger then you wish to admit.
If it really were 0.01%, then I'ld agree with you.

But it's not. It's more like 10%. And in some countries it goes as high up as 25%. That's 1 in 4 people.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Well, I'm not really, but that's another story.



I am very much hostile to muslims who adhere to harmfull islamic interpretations - no matter what form that harm takes up (be it throwing gay people off of buildings or prohibiting females to get a proper education or the opportunity to have professional carreer as she sees fit)



It's not their shield. It's their inspiration and motivation, as well as the tool used to recruite fighters.

You should stop sticking your head in the sand.

It is your opinion you write here, that is not a problem for me.

 

[firedragon]

I just posted a few statistics in my previous post.

View attachment 41666

Depending on country, it goes from 1 (in israel ) to as high as 25% in palestine.
No figures here for afghanistan, but I think it's a safe assumption that it was / is even higher there.

Most seem to fall somewhere between 10 and 18%. That's a huge amount of people.


As for ISIS, the "approval rating" is lower, but still quite significant, with most falling into the 5 to 11% interval. Again a huge amount of people. A minority, but nevertheless a huge amount of people. We're talking in millions, not in thousands.

Yeah. Ive seen the research. Im asking what's the percentage of Muslims? 1.7 billion Muslims worldwide.

 

[icehorse]

Everything I've read from him in this thread boils down to "I'm right and you're not because I say I am".
Then when he is pressed to explain the logic of his views, all he says is "I am right because I am obviously right, this I know because I say I am".

I'm rolling my eyes.

Here's my summary of my part in this long thread. (It's a SUMMARY):

- The OP claims that Islamophobia is peddled by some people only to make money.
- I claim that the people listed in the OP have legitimate criticisms of Islam
- Apologists claim I don't understand Islam
- I say that if the foundational beliefs are analyzed without the intervention of theological scholars, the ideas are suspect
- Apologists attempt to malign me, and obfuscate my claims

 

[firedragon]

I claim that the people listed in the OP have legitimate criticisms of Islam

Hmm. Lets see.

Do you think that the prophet Muhammeds male genitalia was seen by another man while riding a horse and it was written down that it was white? Tell me please.

 

[icehorse]

Hmm. Lets see.

Do you think that the prophet Muhammeds male genitalia was seen by another man while riding a horse and it was written down that it was white? Tell me please.

I have no idea, and I have no idea why the question is relevant?

 

[Tambourine]

Take the same questions and ask how many Americans support killing of muslims after 9/11. You will see a major support for killing innocent muslims

And unlike the hypothetical bombings some Muslims were wishing for, those killings actually happened for real.

 

[Piculet]

Apologists claim I don't understand Isla

Actually, it's Muslims who say you don't understand Islam.

 

[Piculet]

Don't try to change the subject.

The actual stats clearly show your own invented figures to be seriously off the mark and that general support / sympathy for radical jihadi ideology is FAR bigger then you wish to admit.
If it really were 0.01%, then I'ld agree with you.

But it's not. It's more like 10%. And in some countries it goes as high up as 25%. That's 1 in 4 people.

I'm not gonna go and see what exactly you're talking about, but this term radical jihad ideology is a made up term and it can mean different things to different people.

Some people think bombing is radical, others think niqab is radical.

 

[firedragon]

I have no idea, and I have no idea why the question is relevant?

You have no idea means you have no idea what those so called “authors” I quoted has said but you defend them saying their criticism is reasonable.

Why do you defend people you haven’t even analyzed?

 

[firedragon]

Don't try to change the subject.

The actual stats clearly show your own invented figures to be seriously off the mark and that general support / sympathy for radical jihadi ideology is FAR bigger then you wish to admit.
If it really were 0.01%, then I'ld agree with you.

But it's not. It's more like 10%. And in some countries it goes as high up as 25%. That's 1 in 4 people.

Then what’s the percentage from all the Muslim.

you keep repeating this denial but you don’t substantiate. So can you?