Islamaphobia - Years later, I accept its a real/true phenomena and an industry

[firedragon]

It is not just Muslims, Christians (and Jews too). They did or do to each other what the other did and does to them. But Hinduism has always suffered because of both.

Hinduism has not suffered. Hinduism is very steady in their numbers and according to projections it will be the third largest religion, stay within the same number for a century. Maybe you are referring to Hindu's.

That subject is a subject of its own brother.

 

[icehorse]

So says the Quran in chapter 27, verses 48 to 50, - “And in the city were nine ruffians who were causing corruption in the land, and they were not reforming. They said: “Swear by God to one another that we will attack him and his family at night, …... “

How do these people make their living off this fear? Is it real?

I think you should be ashamed of yourself. If you've read the Quran, then how can you cherrypick this way? How can you ignore all of the hatred and horror and torture in this book?

 

[icehorse]

Many years ago I used to be like this too, but I believe it was because of my lack in understanding of what Islam truly is.
Those extremists are not Muslims in my view. They do not know islam. But the millions of good Muslims are nice people.

Please stop conflating Islam with Muslims. Islam is a set of ideas, that's it.

Of course there are hundreds of millions of wonderful Muslims. I've never heard anyone on this forum say otherwise.

BUT, Muslims are born into a horrible, horrible set of ideas and they are anchored to them. They are not even allowed to walk away from this horrible set of ideas called Islam.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hinduism has not suffered.
That subject is a subject of its own brother.

Yeah, it is, but let me mention that we lost 400 million to Islam in Pakistan and Bangladesh. If that is not suffering then what is it?

 

[firedragon]

Yeah, it is, but let me mention that we lost 400 million to Islam in Pakistan and Bangladesh. If that is not suffering then what is it?

Again, you should read ones simple English before doing your best to spread hatred mate. Also, when you cut and paste two sentences from a whole post that's intentional misrepresentation of someone else's position. Thats an embarrassment for anyone to do.

Read this statement very carefully. Slowly.


Hinduism has not suffered. Hinduism is very steady in their numbers and according to projections it will be the third largest religion, stay within the same number for a century. Maybe you are referring to Hindu's.

That subject is a subject of its own brother.

 

[firedragon]

I think you should be ashamed of yourself. If you've read the Quran, then how can you cherrypick this way? How can you ignore all of the hatred and horror and torture in this book?

Very good mate. You win a prize. Kudos.

 

[firedragon]

I can see the cherry picking game coming up. Pseudo scholarship lined up. Lets wait and see. Its fun actually.

 

[icehorse]

I can see the cherry picking game coming up. Pseudo scholarship lined up. Lets wait and see. Its fun actually.

Muslims make well known claims about the quran:

- it's timeless
- it's perfect

If it's perfect, then we shouldn't need to depend on scholarship to understand it, correct? Because if we cannot decide for ourselves then we have to trust the interpretation of scholars. And of course one of the first things we should notice about the scholars is that they violently disagree with each other!

 

[firedragon]

Muslims make well known claims about the quran:

- it's timeless
- it's perfect

If it's perfect, then we shouldn't need to depend on scholarship to understand it, correct? Because if we cannot decide for ourselves then we have to trust the interpretation of scholars. And of course one of the first things we should notice about the scholars is that they violently disagree with each other!

Irrelevant mate.

 

[firedragon]

And of course one of the first things we should notice about the scholars is that they violently disagree with each other!

Strange thing is you say scholars disagree "VIOLENTLY" but you "Absolutely" are assured. So you are far beyond the scholars right? Great.

 

[icehorse]

Strange thing is you say scholars disagree "VIOLENTLY" but you "Absolutely" are assured. So you are far beyond the scholars right? Great.

missing the point mate.

And, all I'm doing is taking Muslims at their word, and taking THEIR claims to their logical conclusions. I think I'm treating Muslims with more respect than you are

 

[firedragon]

missing the point mate.

And, all I'm doing is taking Muslims at their word, and taking THEIR claims to their logical conclusions. I think I'm treating Muslims with more respect than you are

Ah. So you are also a person who claims "because Muslims said so"? Thats great. So you blind worship the particular Muslim you pick and disregard the other Muslim you dont pick. So how do you pick which Muslim you wish to accept blindly as "taking Muslims at their word:?

 

[icehorse]

Ah. So you are also a person who claims "because Muslims said so"? Thats great. So you blind worship the particular Muslim you pick and disregard the other Muslim you dont pick. So how do you pick which Muslim you wish to accept blindly as "taking Muslims at their word:?

hmmm.. Are you telling me that a significant percentage of Muslims do not agree that the Quran is the perfect, timeless word of god?

 

[firedragon]

hmmm.. Are you telling me that a significant percentage of Muslims do not agree that the Quran is the perfect, timeless word of god?

Not an answer. Strawman.

 

[Spirit of Light]

hmmm.. Are you telling me that a significant percentage of Muslims do not agree that the Quran is the perfect, timeless word of god?

I don't understand the problem, if a Muslim believe the Quran is perfect and comes from God, isn't that their own view and understanding? Should we non Muslims tell them what is correct for them to believe because we think differently then them?

 

[icehorse]

Ah. So you are also a person who claims "because Muslims said so"? Thats great. So you blind worship the particular Muslim you pick and disregard the other Muslim you dont pick. So how do you pick which Muslim you wish to accept blindly as "taking Muslims at their word:?

This was your claim ^^

I do not believe I'm "picking a particular Muslim". I believe that virtually ALL Muslims claim that the Quran is the perfect, timeless word of God. Do you disagree?

 

[icehorse]

I don't understand the problem, if a Muslim believe the Quran is perfect and comes from God, isn't that their own view and understanding? Should we non Muslims tell them what is correct for them to believe because we think differently then them?

Not at all the point I'm making. Muslims tell us that they believe that the Quran is the perfect, timeless word of god. I accept that they believe that. Full stop.

My point is that if they believe that, they must also admit that the messages in the Quran are often violent and cruel. If the Quran is perfect as they claim, then ALL of it is perfect, not just a few friendly passages. Anyone who claims that the book is perfect must take the good with the bad.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Not at all the point I'm making. Muslims tell us that they believe that the Quran is the perfect, timeless word of god. I accept that they believe that. Full stop.

My point is that if they believe that, they must also admit that the messages in the Quran are often violent and cruel. If the Quran is perfect as they claim, then ALL of it is perfect, not just a few friendly passages. Anyone who claims that the book is perfect must take the good with the bad.

You could turn your question to the Bible who they also claim come from God, the old testament do contain a lot of violence too. To me this indicate that both books are real from God, but delivered in two separate times of our history. Can I refute that those verses who contain violence is not from God? No I can not.
And if they are from God/Allah. That is ok to me.
It is up to the Muslims to understand this verses and use them in a correct way, just as the rest of the Quran is.
To me the verses that contain violence is there for a reason, but I do not have the answer to it.

 

[icehorse]

You could turn your question to the Bible who they also claim come from God, the old testament do contain a lot of violence too.

Not only could I, but I have, many, many times I think both books are horrible sources of wisdom, morals, ethics and so on for the 21st century. I think that given how ignorant people were 2000 years ago and 1400 years ago, these man-made books were pretty good efforts at codifying leading edge thinking of the time. But we've learned and grown a lot since then and we can see now that they both contain barbaric, ignorant thinking.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Not only could I, but I have, many, many times I think both books are horrible sources of wisdom, morals, ethics and so on for the 21st century. I think that given how ignorant people were 2000 years ago and 1400 years ago, these man-made books were pretty good efforts at codifying leading edge thinking of the time. But we've learned and grown a lot since then and we can see now that they both contain barbaric, ignorant thinking.

Question: how do you know people was ignorant 2000 years ago? Where do you have that info from?
I don't ask you to believe in the Quran or Bible, but how about some respect to those who do, and has never hurt anyone? 99,999 % of all Muslims and Christians have never hurt anyone. Does not that say something?