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Islamic Jihad

ManSinha

Well-Known Member
I want a better world for my family. So I take a path that I see leads to peace and in 175 years so far we’ve not had the problems your irreligious world has had.
Which 175 years are you referring to? And the "irreligious" is part of yours whether you like it or not
Unless you establish a commune with armed guards and barbed wire and only admit people with your line of belief - the world you so gaily condemn as irreligious will be the neighbors you live with; the community members you shop with and the colleagues you work with

So get off your high horse
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
We claim we don’t need it but we have already had two world wars, a holocaust, Hiroshima and crime rates soaring through the roof not to mention drug addiction, domestic violence and suicide.

So I suppose in your estimation we are doing quite well with our new found freedom to do as we please and ignore all the laws of love religion teaches.

I want a better world for my family. So I take a path that I see leads to peace and in 175 years so far we’ve not had the problems your irreligious world has had.

What benefits does Baha'i provide that you wouldn't otherwise have.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
You don't have verifiable, repeatable, scientific evidence. Science isn't everything, faith is a perfectly fine idea. But let's not pretend that faith shares characteristics with science that it doesn't.

What he does have is the script memorized.
It is like a conversation with a robocall.
Not worth wasting time.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Atheists have no scientific proof that there is no God, its all in their heads.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Atheists have no scientific proof that there is no God, its all in their heads.

Well tra la la! You noticed that nobody can
prove or disprove the existence of any "god"!
So sophisticated, such depth!

How long did that take you?

Did you also hear of the Martian teapot whose
existence or non existence cannot be proven?
Add to that Nessie, Batboy, chupacabre and the
flying saucer base in the Bermuda Triangle,
and all the "gods" but the one that you
choose to believe in (though it is no better evidenced
than the teapot).

Cant disprove a one of them. You ever try to
disprove Thor?

"All in their heads" you say.

Like a lot of our not- necessarily sophisticated,
you slipped up there. "Psychological projection"
is so revealing! Tsk. Better look it up and
learn not to give away the farm so easily!

Oh almost forgot- there is no such thing as 'scientific
proof". Does not exist except in the heads of the
unsophisticated. :D
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Which 175 years are you referring to? And the "irreligious" is part of yours whether you like it or not
Unless you establish a commune with armed guards and barbed wire and only admit people with your line of belief - the world you so gaily condemn as irreligious will be the neighbors you live with; the community members you shop with and the colleagues you work with

So get off your high horse

Just stating some things which highlight our different communities.
 

iam1me

Active Member
Religion doesn't teach, people do.

Religions are a teaching of people. You can learn directly under someone or teach yourself from the plethora of resources out there.

Religious leaders choose what to focus on, how to interpret.

Of course they do. You can't escape interpretation. Not that you need to go to church or the equivalent in another religion to learn from religion. You yourself can read and interpret the scriptures - and you'll have to decide what to focus on and how to interpret it for yourself. Of course, for a more informed position you'll want to study beyond just your own private interpretation.

If the Bible or Quran were only seen as self-help guides, people individually could get whatever they see as beneficial to themselves.

Individuals can and do study these scriptures themselves and reap the benefits. I myself don't belong to any church or denomination, though I've gone to many different churches over the years. I got bored going to church from a young age because they don't teach anything beyond the sheer basics of their own doctrine. However, I've spent countless hours doing my own studying and debates of theology - and in many ways my theology has significantly changed over the years. You'd be hard pressed to find a church that reflects my views.

One of the big ones that I spent years on, for instance, was the Trinity. Even wrote a paper on the Ante Nicene Fathers VS the Trinity for my Senior Research Paper for my BA in Religious Studies. I'd spent the past 6 years or so reading through the Ante Nicene Fathers Series to determine if the early church was Trinitarian, as basically everyone Christian liked to claim, or not. For I had already, by this point, found the Trinity to be illogical and indefensible from the scriptures - but still had to question myself when everyone was claiming that the Church has always taught the Trinity doctrine. Of course, that was false - anyone who claims such has either never studied the matter or is lying to you.

Additionally, when I selected courses to study in college for my BA in Religious Studies degree, I focused on taking courses about other religions rather than Christianity. Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Confucianism, etc. I guarantee you that it is quite possible to study religion and the scriptures thereof without going to a single service. You gotta be willing to put in the time and effort, however. LOTS of reading.

What happens instead, as these religious leaders claim the authority of God they can control the masses. This is what religion does best, control folks. The Bible and Quran for the most part are used as symbols of authority. Authority given to religious leaders to dictate the will of God to the rest.

As I noted in my previous post, it comes as no surprise that SOME people would seek to abuse religion - that does not mean that that becomes all religion is. In the right hands religion is a powerful and beneficial power in our lives - individually and collectively. Look at people like the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. You are being intellectually dishonest to try to sum up religion as something that only exists for abuse and manipulation.

You want to use scripture because you see some personal benefit in it, ok. As long as you don't think it gives you any authority to tell anyone else how to live.

We all have freewill and must choose how to live ourselves - a God given right. It is our responsibility, however, as moral agents, to discuss what is good and right and to share the truth we have gleaned. It is also our responsibility to fight against evil and injustice. This all applies whether you are religious or not.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
We claim we don’t need it but we have already had two world wars, a holocaust, Hiroshima and crime rates soaring through the roof not to mention drug addiction, domestic violence and suicide.

So I suppose in your estimation we are doing quite well with our new found freedom to do as we please and ignore all the laws of love religion teaches.

I want a better world for my family. So I take a path that I see leads to peace and in 175 years so far we’ve not had the problems your irreligious world has had.
Hiroshima was done by the US which was and to a large extent still is religious. Many of the contenders in the two world wars were religious (consider Japan for example or the Turks) and I know of no crime and drug statistics for Baha’i societies so there is no evidence for this point.

Furthermore who says that irreligious people ignore the laws of love that religion teaches?

I think you have constructed a polemic against the non-religious without really thinking it through.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Hiroshima was done by the US which was and to a large extent still is religious. Many of the contenders in the two world wars were religious (consider Japan for example or the Turks) and I know of no crime and drug statistics for Baha’i societies so there is no evidence for this point.

Furthermore who says that irreligious people ignore the laws of love that religion teaches?

I think you have constructed a polemic against the non-religious without really thinking it through.

In general we call it bigotry.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Hiroshima was done by the US which was and to a large extent still is religious. Many of the contenders in the two world wars were religious (consider Japan for example or the Turks) and I know of no crime and drug statistics for Baha’i societies so there is no evidence for this point.

Furthermore who says that irreligious people ignore the laws of love that religion teaches?

I think you have constructed a polemic against the non-religious without really thinking it through.

If humanity had a plan out of the mess they’re in then they wouldn’t be in the mess they’re in. Just pointing out the contrast between Baha’i community life and the world at large which is based largely on materialistic values and pursuits and has no vision of where it’s going as in contrast to the Baha’is who have a clear plan and goal which is the building of a world spiritual civilisation based upon humanitarian and spiritual teachings of unity in diversity and the creation of virtuous people.

True freedom outside the Baha’i Faith is to follow one’s passions and desires which has only brought misery and unhappiness while to a Baha’i true freedom is to follow the laws of God which prevent us from harming ourselves and brings true joy and happiness.

As a model for a diverse society I believe the Baha’i World Community has a proven track record of peace, stability, a proven and matchless ability to unite peoples of all faiths, nationalities, religions, races and cultures and that in a world so prolific with ‘us and them’ groups offers a way out of disunity and a realistic proven pathway to peace as although it is very much part of this world has strangely remained unaffected by the divisive forces dominating the horizon.

Sooner or later after enough hand wringing the world’s leaders will want to know what it is that we have that all their wealth and power doesn’t have and why we can unite and be peaceful in our diversity while their world is falling apart and they can’t integrate migrants.

In the Baha’i World there is no such thing as ‘us and them’ and that makes a huge difference.
 
The Muslims started it all. Their prophet was a warlord and they taught all the "Abrahamics" to fight.

Of course. The Romans spent most of their time making daisy chains and helping old ladies cross the road until the 7th C.

The Vandals and the Goths were also kindly, peace loving folks until the Muslims invented violence shattering an epoch of global peace and harmony.
 
Was Spain Christian? I don't think the Visgoths were Christian. Around 600 AD they converted to Arianism... which I know nothing about except that Jesus was separate from and subordinate to God.

Arianism is a form of Christianity.

Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Vandals, Franks, etc. were all Christianisd by that point.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Arianism is a form of Christianity.

Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Vandals, Franks, etc. were all Christianisd by that point.

Arianism - definition of Arianism by The Free Dictionary
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Arianism
Ar·i·an·ism (âr′ē-ə-nĭz′əm, ăr′-) n. The doctrines of Arius, denying that Jesus was of the same substance as God and holding instead that he was only the highest of created beings, viewed as heretical by most Christian churches. Arianism (ˈɛərɪəˌnɪzəm) n (Theology) the doctrine of …
 
Arianism - definition of Arianism by The Free Dictionary
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/Arianism
Ar·i·an·ism (âr′ē-ə-nĭz′əm, ăr′-) n. The doctrines of Arius, denying that Jesus was of the same substance as God and holding instead that he was only the highest of created beings, viewed as heretical by most Christian churches. Arianism (ˈɛərɪəˌnɪzəm) n (Theology) the doctrine of …

It's still a form of Christianity. Constantine was even Baptised by an Arian bishop.

Nicaea was mainly about addressing the Arian situation.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
If humanity had a plan out of the mess they’re in then they wouldn’t be in the mess they’re in. Just pointing out the contrast between Baha’i community life and the world at large which is based largely on materialistic values and pursuits and has no vision of where it’s going as in contrast to the Baha’is who have a clear plan and goal which is the building of a world spiritual civilisation based upon humanitarian and spiritual teachings of unity in diversity and the creation of virtuous people.

True freedom outside the Baha’i Faith is to follow one’s passions and desires which has only brought misery and unhappiness while to a Baha’i true freedom is to follow the laws of God which prevent us from harming ourselves and brings true joy and happiness.

As a model for a diverse society I believe the Baha’i World Community has a proven track record of peace, stability, a proven and matchless ability to unite peoples of all faiths, nationalities, religions, races and cultures and that in a world so prolific with ‘us and them’ groups offers a way out of disunity and a realistic proven pathway to peace as although it is very much part of this world has strangely remained unaffected by the divisive forces dominating the horizon.

Sooner or later after enough hand wringing the world’s leaders will want to know what it is that we have that all their wealth and power doesn’t have and why we can unite and be peaceful in our diversity while their world is falling apart and they can’t integrate migrants.

In the Baha’i World there is no such thing as ‘us and them’ and that makes a huge difference.

A lot of social engineers have come up with how
to build a utopian society. They are all full of fine
words. They all get avid followers.

As for yours-

A "plan" whose basis is a bs fantasy is not so likely
to ever work out despite your predictions of historical
inevitability.
 
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loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
A lot of social engineers have come up with how
to build a utopian society. They are all full of fine
words. They all get avid followers.

As for yours-

A "plan" whose basis is a bs fantasy is not so likely
to ever work out despite your predictions of historical
inevitability.

This is an existing world community In every country in the world it is proven to work in uniting peoples from every country, race, nation, race, culture and religion.

It’s a functioning grass roots level world community on the ground not a pipe dream or utopia but visible and present.

A Global Community | The Bahá’í Faith
 

Audie

Veteran Member
This is an existing world community In every country in the world it is proven to work in uniting peoples from every country, race, nation, race, culture and religion.

It’s a functioning grass roots level world community on the ground not a pipe dream or utopia but visible and present.

A Global Community | The Bahá’í Faith

There are a lot of existing world communities that
do not make war.

You claim as a fact that some day your chosen
cult will extend to everyone on earth.

It is a utopian fantasy, like many another.
I am sure you do believe in it, others have
believed in theirs. It is,after all, what
believers do, they believe things.
Singers sing, believers believe.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
There are a lot of existing world communities that
do not make war.

You claim as a fact that some day your chosen
cult will extend to everyone on earth.

It is a utopian fantasy, like many another.
I am sure you do believe in it, others have
believed in theirs. It is,after all, what
believers do, they believe things.
Singers sing, believers believe.

At least we are making an effort to build a better world that all may live comfortably in peace. But its understandable that there is so much hopelessness and despair because that’s what materialism does.

Materialism breeds negativity. Materialism is so entrenched in despair and negativity that it stigmatises any sincere attempt to make things better as utopian reflecting a complete lack of faith in the goodness innate in every human being that we can make things better. That’s the attitude that materialism breeds and does.
 
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