Islamophobia

[stvdv]

Thank you for your very friendly version of Islam. Feels very good.

First of all sorry for my English(English is not my first language)

I rather have someone being nice writing not perfect, than someone being "not nice" writing perfect. Your english is fine.

1- "The is no relation between what Muslims do and Islam"

Islam is known as "Religion of Peace". I think I understand what you mean.
If someone kills another person in my (stvdv) name, without my knowledge or permission, there is no connection between that killer and me. It is just his fantasy.

Because "The Qur'an is the source of Islamic legislation" Quran said in Verse number 256 in (al-Baqarah) "there is no compulsion in religion" that is general rule from God that mean killing because of blasphemy is not right at all

Good to know, some countries still give away other signals to the world. Glad to hear one Muslim telling he sees it different (I like Oman religion)
Question: Is it okay for Muslim to belittle (non) belief of others, telling or implying they are inferior? (No compuslion in religion you said)

"if you said that prophet Mohammed practice that rule in his live" i will clarify to you why he did that? It is Because some people changed their religion and joined the enemy force to fight Muslims so they were committing high treason so he killed them because of that not because they change their religion

Your interpretation makes perfect sense to me. And it is in sync with other verses I read in the Koran.

Quran is an open source of knowledge for the good of humanity, like other religions and not exclusive for Arabs, Saudis, Shiite Iran or any Islamic doctrine.

Question: Do you believe that other Scriptures are also Divine inspired and as valuable as the Koran (for others who believe in them)?

For example, who are ISIS?
From my perspective as a genuine Muslim, I consider them my first enemies because they destroy my religion and they are doing the opposite of its teachings and alleged they are Muslim .

Very well said. ISIS is the real culprit undermining Islam; not the so called Islamophobes. Cause of Islamophobes is bad behaving Muslims.

It's not Islamophobes giving Islam a bad name. But rather "Islamophobes granting Muslims the chance to live up to the standards of true Islam"

 

[Muffled]

I believe I only fear God.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

www.merriam-webster.com
Definition of Islamophobia
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against Islam or people who practice Islam
Muslims "Apologists" seem to add to that definition, everyone who criticizes Islam or Muslims no matter if the reasons are based on facts and on reliable sources.
Under the Apologists consensus, people like Pamela Gellar, Robert Spencer, David Wood, Marine Le Pen, Geert Wilders, and many others fall under the category of "Islamophobes".
The problem is that nothing that they say is actually irrational nor discriminatory against Muslims.
The fears against Islam are entirely based on facts and reliable sources.
These problems affect not only Muslims but most countries around the world are now affected by the Islamic turmoil.
What the "Apologists" accomplish by claiming these people are "Islamophobes" is to deter them from denouncing the problems that the religion faces.
Many of them are already facing death threats and are not able to live normal lives.
They live in hiding and under 24/7 security protection.
Who is to blame for this?
Muslims extremists?
Muslims in general?
Islam?
Islamic rules? (blasphemy and freedom of speech)
The UK has banned many of these people from entering the country.
Isn't that crazy?
A western country is afraid of freedom of speech.
A few years ago two female journalists (Lauren Southern and Brittany Pettibone) were not allowed to enter the UK for some similar reasons, fear they would speak badly against Islam.
What do we accomplish by silencing the ones making us aware of what is coming?
Is it better to walk blindly towards the danger zone without any warning?
We'll see.

Most of the people you mentioned are racists and loons. Sometimes the term is quite apt, just like sometimes people actually are anti-Semites. I'm sure if the target of their ire were Jews, you wouldn't be defending them.

 

[Muffled]

Is our Giorgia an Islamophobe?

I believe there are aspects of Islamic culture that distress her and there is a fear of terrorism.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

To make matters even worse, any land owned by Muslims is to be considered eternally "Muslim land".

...So as anyone with any sense can see, Islam exceeds being a mere religion. It actually combines fascism, totalitarianism, a god who can choke your jugular vain in an instance, and every other bad idea imaginable into one single system of total obedience that any non-Muslim should naturally be repulsed by.

It's

View attachment 32799
And We have already created man and know what his soul whispers to him, and We are closer to him than his jugular vein.
Quran 50:16

Actually, it's your religion of Catholicism that was most tied to Fascism and dictators. Islam doesn't have a centralized authority and there's many disagreements among Muslims. That verse you mention is just talking about the nearness of God to his creation. Not sure how you're seeing it as something nefarious.

 

[Muffled]

Yes. Without even looking at the video the subtitles "who funds these cultural centers and mosques?" Really? People ought to build in worship in their spaces of meditation and prayer without having to deal with scrutiny.

I believe it wouldn't matter if there were not a history of some mosques fermenting terrorism.

 

[Raymann]

Most of the people you mentioned (Pamela Gellar, Robert Spencer, David Wood, Marine Le Pen, Geert Wilders),are racists and loons. Sometimes the term is quite apt, just like sometimes people actually are anti-Semites. I'm sure if the target of their ire were Jews, you wouldn't be defending them.

That is just your opinion on them. I don't see any of them as racists nor Islamophobes. I see them as brave people risking their own life trying to show the truth about a religion that for some reason attracts and disseminates violence, hate and is misogynistic.

 

[Wasp]

Nuke threat they call victory. That is sick and fanatical

The nuke threat had nothing to do with the victory. There was a fight over the cartoon contest, one Muslim said the word nuke, later the fight was won by that country and you imagine the word nuke did it. It didn't.

 

[Wasp]

that for some reason attracts and disseminates violence, hate and is misogynistic.

The people you're defending certainly do..

 

[Nakosis]

www.merriam-webster.com
Definition of Islamophobia
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against Islam or people who practice Islam

I discriminate against Islam, intellectually. Intellectually I discriminate against most religions and their ideas about a God.

Per this definition, I'm Islamophobic? Ok, fine. I'm Islamophobic. Now what?
Personally, I think the definition sucks. It is defined in such a broad manner to be almost meaningless.

 

[Raymann]

let me explain some information :
1- "There is no relation between what Muslims do and Islam"

That my good friend is a total oxymoron.
By definition, a Muslim is a person who follows and practices Islam so there is no way around it if a person is a Muslim it has to be associated with Islam.

Quran said in Verse number 256 in (al-Baqarah) "there is no compulsion in religion" that is general rule from God that mean killing because of blasphemy is not right at all "if you said that prophet Mohammed practice that rule in his live" I will clarify to you why he did that? It is Because some people changed their religion and joined the enemy force to fight Muslims so they were committing high treason so he killed them because of that not because they change their religion.

You are contradicting yourself. If there is NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION, then it shouldn't be a problem that a Muslim changes religion. He is not committing treason because Islam allows him freedom of religion. If they were killed because they were part of the enemies then it is fine but they were not committing treason (as you said they were allowed to change religion)

For example, who are ISIS?
From my perspective as a genuine Muslim, I consider them my first enemies because they destroy my religion and they are doing the opposite of its teachings and alleged they are Muslim .

The problem is that you think you are the genuine Muslim but they believe they are the genuine Muslims. They also pray 5 times and memorize the Quran and they believe they are doing Jihad to protect Islam.

It is Because some people changed their religion and joined the enemy force to fight Muslims so they were committing high treason so he killed them because of that not because they change their religion .

So Islam allows changing religion but defending your new religion is considered treason? It makes no sense to me.

Islam allowed fighting in self-defense only and this action is a logical and legitimate right.

So how do you explain Quran 9:29 ???
SAHIH INTERNATIONAL
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

 

[Raymann]

The people you're defending (Pamela Gellar, Robert Spencer, David Wood, Marine Le Pen, Geert Wilders), certainly do..
"for some reason attracts and disseminates violence, hate and is misogynistic."

Talk is cheap, can you prove it?
Please feel free to provide some quotes backing up your claims.

 

[stvdv]

The nuke threat had nothing to do with the victory. There was a fight over the cartoon contest, one Muslim said the word nuke, later the fight was won by that country and you imagine the word nuke did it. It didn't.

IMO: That they threatened to nuke Holland over cartoon contest is sick

Do not twist what I said please

They should have publicly admitted they did wrong

Their celebration shows me what they really are

It's like a Muslim blaming a woman to get raped because she dresses up like a western women. I heard several Imaams say this.

Same here, if a Muslim can't handle another human making a cartoon of Muhammad he is not very solid in his faith. Quite easily shaken. That is fine, not all are the same. But to threat to nuke another country over it is very sick.

If you can't admit this is wrong then you are the same and as guilty

I have not heard 1 Muslim publicly admit on this forum "this was insane of all those Pakistani Muslims and their celebration was totally misplaced".

Maybe you get it if I take Islam out of the example:
If you are in a fight with someone, say wrestling. Then the other pulls a gun. You give up of course. Then the other goes celebrating his victory telling his girls how good he was winning.

Or you are in a debate. 1 says I will organize a writing contest. Write how we feel about Jesus. The other is Buddhist and gets mad, because he believes Buddha is the sole refuge. He takes a nuke and nukes the person.

Would you not say that a few debating rules were broken? Overkill? But most of all "living in a matrix of unreality totally incapable to understand what he is saying, no sense of reality, as if in a videogame. Total lack of feelings making a threat so much out of proportion and so violent. Who lost all contact with reality".

And do know that Muslim behavior is the cause that Wilders felt this contest was needed. So you can only blame Muslims here. They should not claim that Islam is the best for all, as many Muslims claim and that other religions are inferior. Or Atheists for that matter.

And Muslims have proven they know how irritating belittling religion feels. So they should give the right example.

Proper response would have been IMO:
Please Wilders could you stop this drawing contest. It hurts Muslim's feelings. Wilders could have said "then don't say Islam is the highway and Christianity is inferior for this hurts feelings of Christians". And Muslims could say "then Christians should also stop saying Christianity and Jesus is the highway for all and other (non)religions are inferior"

And then they could both agree on RF Rule#8.

Let we both say in the future "In my opinion: my religion is the best". Would be a good first baby step. That would show some religious maturity. But no, even that little gesture is too much because "our Scripture says it's the Truth, so Allah/Jesus says it, it's not my idea, that's why I refuse to say IMHO"

More clear then this I can't make it.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

That verse you mention is just talking about the nearness of God to his creation. Not sure how you're seeing it as something nefarious.

This...wonderfully put

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I discriminate against Islam, intellectually. Intellectually I discriminate against most religions and their ideas about a God.

Per this definition, I'm Islamophobic? Ok, fine. I'm Islamophobic. Now what?
Personally, I think the definition sucks. It is defined in such a broad manner to be almost meaningless.

You're a sad human being and the fact that @Raymann liked what you wrote is just as disgusting. I'm good on this Islam bashing thread.

 

[stvdv]

I'm good on this Islam bashing thread.

All those claiming "my way is the highway" in name of Islam, Koran, Christianity, Bible etc. are bashing others.

Stay equalminded is the best action IMO too

 

[Epic Beard Man]

All those claiming "my way is the highway" in name of Islam, Koran, Christianity, Bible etc. are bashing others.

Stay equalminded is the best action IMO too

This thread is not intellectually stimulating so you can talk amongst yourselves.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I think there might be a false equivalence in there. A stuffed animal monkey tied to a noose is expressing explicit hatred and advocating cruel violence towards animals, and doing it at an NAACP chapter would probably be reasonably taken to imply advocation of hatred and violence towards coloured people. Yelling out homophobic slurs against gay people is once again targeting people. Eating bacon outside of a mosque is not advocating hatred or violence against anyone and I'm surprised you raised such a non-issue amongst issues such as the noose portrayal. Burning copies of the Quran is not targeting people its targeting ideas, and ideas should never be beyond the disdain of those who either don't like them or misunderstand them. Hence the false equivalence, becuase you are trying to compare targeting of ideas to targeting of people.


I think you are projecting hatred onto others they may not have.

No. It's hate speech.


Then you are attributing motives to people they may not necessarily have. They may just be normalising dissent. Satirising public figures by drawing them can be educational. We satirise our politicians all the time when they are perceived by us to make mistakes so why not for religios figures when they are perceived to make mistakes?

Dunking sacred objects in urine is not a constructive way to express dissent, but it does desensitise people to the fact that we don't alll have to revere something just because you or somebody else does, and imo this desensitisation to the fact that others don't all hold the same items sacred does reduce violence against dissent in western society which is beneficial in creating safe spaces for people to express dissenting opinions.

Certainly the civilised mature way to deal with dissenting opinions against ideas is not to advocate hate for or to kill the dissenters but rather to demonstrate the moral high grounds by showing that holding these items sacred grants one patience in the face of trials, compassion in the face of testing situations etc.

I'm not even going to respond to you anymore

 

[stvdv]

This thread is not intellectually stimulating so you can talk amongst yourselves.

The moment a person claims "my way is the highway" it's not spiritually stimulating, even the opposite, I feel very clear right now.

This attitude "my way is the highway" is what I would call "not intellectually stimulating".

I also come to the point to say "you can talk amongst yourselves" (when this happens)

So we agree on this

 

[Spirit of Light]

I do not belive "Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - " Has anything to do with physical fight or killing others, it means try to get the unbelivers or those who do not believe in a God to believe so they can be saved too, or help those who believe, but has gone astray.

Jihad can in war times mean fight others, but in peace time it means fight your own faults and lack of wisdom. fight to leave the unwholsome and become wholesome.

To twist everything in the Qu`ran to be something evil is false belief too (IMHO)