Islam's history of being confused on the trinity

[PVE1]

Hey all,
Are there any ideas on why historically Islam believes the trinity is Jesus, Mary and the Father? I think I've read a few places where Jesus considered his mother to be the Holy Spirit. Would this be the reason why? I know the Qu'ran was confused on it and I've read many Islamic authors who had believed the trinity was Jesus, Mary and the Father, even only 100 years ago. Help me shed some light on this. Thanks!

 

[Sajdah]

Excuse me, what are you talking about here? The islamic POV on Trinity? There is no confusion in the Qur'an about it, btw.....

 

[PVE1]

Qu'ran 5:116
And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

 

[Sajdah]

Qu'ran 5:116
And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

And...?

 

[142857]

she's refering to the confusion as in: we consider (father, son, holy spirit) they seem to consider (father, jesus, mary)...

I underatand the question, but don't know where that rift comes from.

Other than perhaps mohammed didn't need to understand the ins and outs of this concept to be able to explain it's fault.

 

[PVE1]

My question basically is that it had been well known by the time of Islam that the Trinity was the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Although we can't really fault anyone from that era too much for not knowing that it was the Holy Spirit and not Mary, it had continued until much later on. I have a book by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad called Jesus in India where he also thinks the Trinity is Jesus, Mary and the Father. This book was written in 1899, how could he not know that the Trinity was Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Of course, that's just one person. I'm just interested to know how it became from the Holy Spirit to Mary.

 

[142857]

Maybe they were simply not concerned about properly representing "incorrect" information.

there is no trinity....doesn't matter who you think is in it.

 

[Sajdah]

There is no verse in the holy Qur'an explains the members of Trinity, and in the verse you quoted above there is no reference to Trinity...

In the major Christian doctorines Mary is considered to be "the Mother of God"

Christians of the major ancient traditions including the Catholic Church, Anglican Communion, and the Eastern Orthodox Church believe that Mary, as mother of Jesus, is the Mother of God (Μήτηρ Θεο&#8166 and the Theotokos, literally, Birthgiver of God. Mary has been an object of veneration in the Christian church since the Apostolic Age.

Also...

Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Anglican, and some Lutherans venerate the Virgin Mary. This veneration especially takes the form of prayer for intercession with her Son, Jesus Christ.

And that kind of veneration is considered as "sherk" associating partners with Allah (swt), which is highly condemned in Islam and goes against its pure monotheism.....So no, there is no confusion at all!

 

[PVE1]

This was not a thread to attempt to debate the trinity, to prove or disprove it, to convert Muslims to Christianity, etc. This was just me wondering how one group of people thought it was Mary and one group thought it was the Holy Spirit.

 

[Sajdah]

This was not a thread to attempt to debate the trinity, to prove or disprove it, to convert Muslims to Christianity, etc. This was just me wondering how one group of people thought it was Mary and one group thought it was the Holy Spirit.

Of course I understand that you are not trying to do anything of that, and I hope that this confusion is over now!

 

[J2hapydna]

Hey all,

Are there any ideas on why historically Islam believes the trinity is Jesus, Mary and the Father? I think I've read a few places where Jesus considered his mother to be the Holy Spirit. Would this be the reason why? I know the Qu'ran was confused on it and I've read many Islamic authors who had believed the trinity was Jesus, Mary and the Father, even only 100 years ago. Help me shed some light on this. Thanks!

In Arabia there was a sect of Christians who believed it.

Edward Gibbon in his book The History of The Decline & Fall Of The Roman Empire says:

The Christians of the seventh century had insensibly relapsed into a semblance of paganism: their public and private vows were addressed to the relics and images that disgraced the temples of the East: the throne of the Almighty was darkened by the clouds of martyrs, and saints, and angels, the objects of popular veneration; and the Collyridian heretics, who flourished in the fruitful soil of Arabia, invested the Virgin Mary with the name and honours of a goddess.

__________________________

George Sale in the preliminary discourse to his translation of The Koran:

This notion of the divinity of the Virgin Mary was also believed by some at the Council of Nice, who said there were two gods besides the Father viz. Christ and the virgin Mary, and were thence named Mariamites. Others imagined her to be exempt from humanity, and deified; which goes but little beyond the popish superstition in calling her the complement of the Trinity, as if it were imperfect without her. This foolish imagination is justly condemned in the Koran as idolatrous, and gave a handle to Mohammed to attack the Trinity itself.

 

[horiturk]

Islam isn't confused on the trinity,Christianity is....because there is no trinity. and this is coming from a non muslim

 

[A Thousand Suns]

Hey all,
Are there any ideas on why historically Islam believes the trinity is Jesus, Mary and the Father? I think I've read a few places where Jesus considered his mother to be the Holy Spirit. Would this be the reason why? I know the Qu'ran was confused on it and I've read many Islamic authors who had believed the trinity was Jesus, Mary and the Father, even only 100 years ago. Help me shed some light on this. Thanks!

I think this will be helpful

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2196321-post1.html

 

[MathewJames]

This was not a thread to attempt to debate the trinity, to prove or disprove it, to convert Muslims to Christianity, etc. This was just me wondering how one group of people thought it was Mary and one group thought it was the Holy Spirit.

Catholics created the concept of trinity (Father, Son, & Holy Spirt) it took hold when the Romans made Christianity their official religion. Then most Christian groups after that just accepted that concept.

Muslims basically ignore the concept and know that adding Jesus to the godhead or making him equal to GOD is wrong. There is no Trinity for Muslims to know, so it could be described many ways and it would not matter if Mary is included or not.

The Christians add Jesus to the godhead which different than what the Bible teaches. The three are: Father, His Word, and His Spirit.

‘For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one.’( 1John 5:7) The CREATOR/Father is on one accord when THEY bear record in heaven for they are HE...HIS Word and HIS Spirit.

 

[Lucian]

I think this will be helpful

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2196321-post1.html

No, it doesn't help much, it's very erroneous.