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Isn’t Atheism a faith-based non-religion?
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
Deathbydefault
Apistevist Asexual Atheist
Faith in doubt? I don't follow.
I can imagine a scenario where you put faith into your doubts about something, but I don't see how to tie it to atheism.
But I'm a hard atheist anyways, so...
Faith in doubt?
Sorry mate, you've lost me.
Just don't follow any form of theistic belief is all.
This atheist here has so much doubt about the Abrahamic God as she has about Mickey Mouse. if you think it makes sense to say that I have faith in doubt about Mickey Mouse and its ontological equivalents, then let it be.
Ciao
- viole
McBell
Unbound
My agreeing or disagreeing with it has no bearing on what some people do with it.
Seems to me that understanding how people differentiate is more important than agreeing with the why they differentiate in the manner they do.
As it turns out, Quintessence differentiates differently from what my sample provides.
Interestingly enough, I suspect there are even more ways to differentiate....
If a series of dispersed yet recurrent claims by Muslims is to be believed, all human beings are supposedly believers in the God of the Qur'an literally from birth and the only reasons why not everyone are Muslims are the lack of awareness of the message of the Qur'an and some sort of misguidance from their social environments.
Oh, and of course there are those remarkably ill-defined kafir (plural kuffar) who have the nerve to say out aloud that they disbelieve the Qur'an.
There is not too much of a consensus on whether that is caused by ignorance, stubborness, mental illness or just plain wickedness, apparently because the Qur'an itself dedicates a lot of space to the matter with a not-quite-coherent message.
That is probably why some people will say that only outright liars (people who know the Qur'an to be true but deny it anyway) qualify as kuffar, while others say that all non-Muslims are kuffar: there is not a lot of effort to acknowledge a distinction between the two groups, and what little there is is very much at odds with itself.
For much the same reasons, it is almost by definition impossible for any critics of Islam not to be automatically branded as "hate speechers". Islam presumes wickedness of anyone who is not willing to embrace it.
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McBell
Unbound
And there-in lies a big part of the problem.
Seems each person has their very own idea/definition of "god".
So when they speak of god, they tend to refer to their own ideas/definition.
When we hear the term "god" we tend to think of our own ideas/definition of "god".
If the ideas/definition are similar enough it does not pose much of an issue.
However, it seems to me that there are enough differences that discussion is often fruitless because people are talking past each other.
Back to the OP...
@paarsurrey - I'm just guessing at what your question is about: Is your question about what atheists "do" believe in? Since we don't believe in god, what "do" we believe in? Well of course we atheists have a secret club (complete with handshake), and we have some secret things we all agree to (not)
Speaking for myself, I have "faith" that the well being of conscious creatures (WBCC), (a phrase of Sam Harris's), is a "good" thing to pursue. I can't prove that WBCC is good, but I have faith that it is. I think that the only people who don't have some sort of underlying faith statement like mine are the moral relativists, and there aren't that many of those.
@paarsurrey - I'm just guessing at what your question is about: Is your question about what atheists "do" believe in? Since we don't believe in god, what "do" we believe in? Well of course we atheists have a secret club (complete with handshake), and we have some secret things we all agree to (not)
Speaking for myself, I have "faith" that the well being of conscious creatures (WBCC), (a phrase of Sam Harris's), is a "good" thing to pursue. I can't prove that WBCC is good, but I have faith that it is. I think that the only people who don't have some sort of underlying faith statement like mine are the moral relativists, and there aren't that many of those.
Altfish
Veteran Member
I prefer knowledge and certainty (or as near certain as possible). I don't have faith in doubt because I know it exists, I have come across doubt so I don't need faith to 'believe' in it. I am certain doubt exists. Faith has nothing to do with it.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I'd assume if atheism is a faith-based non-religion it's agnostism. Faith in doubt? I'd just say doubt. Faith in doubt I don't think that makes sense in the English Language.
My understanding is, God doesn't exist. An atheist doesn't believe he exists.
How can we hope/have faith (not doubt-wrong word) that god doesn't exist when he doesn't exist to begin with?
How do you have faith in something that doesn't exist, doesn't' exist?
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No. Those atheists who are religious have their own religions. For instance, a non-theistic Buddhist's religion isn't "Atheism"; it's Buddhism.
Not everyone has a religion.
I doubt it.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Faith in doubt, no. Objectively, doubt is a good thing which everyone, including the religious, use. For example, religious people might doubt that evolution is fact or that the cosmos could have come about without a creator.
Strong Atheism, as in the belief that no God's exist, I would say yes, there is faith involved. Weak atheism, or merely the lack of belief in God, is based on a lack of evidence. Thus, there is no faith involved necessarily.
Same here.
To be fair, many of those are atheists. Or at least the ones that exist among us atheists tend to speak their mind on the issue fairly often.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
As SSE pointed out, "Faith in doubt" is meaningless.
Atheists may have faith in all sorts of things -- sunrise, gravity, chemistry -- but these are observed phenomena. Basic atheism is essentially nothing more than a lack of belief. There's no faith involved; nothing to have faith in.
Atheists may have faith in all sorts of things -- sunrise, gravity, chemistry -- but these are observed phenomena. Basic atheism is essentially nothing more than a lack of belief. There's no faith involved; nothing to have faith in.
McBell
Unbound
I am guessing that it has to do with those atheists who faith that god does not exist.
No. I am explaining to you that if I put the term atheism in proper case, I'm referring to it as a religion. I follow the same convention with the word "paganism," where by in lower case I am not referring to religious practices and in proper case I am. It is grammatical convention to put religions in proper case.
It isn't. A conviction needs to be deeply held for me to call it "religious." Or, as @Windwalker puts it, something of ultimate concern for that person... something that is an anchor or axis of their worldview or way of life. One can be "religious" about sports fandoms, taking care of one's children, etc.
I'm not one of them. I simply find the word accurate to use in at least some cases. Atheists who are particularly devoted to their atheism and make it a big deal in their life are certainly religious about their atheism. If atheists are disturbed by being called religious, I'd suggest they might re-examine what the word "religious" means and why they respond to it so negatively. "Religious" is not a dirty word. Or at least it shouldn't be.
No, it does not, and I didn't say that it did. But it does make one religious about that thing. Religious =/= religion. Granted, the things one is religious about are typically the underpinnings of one's religion.
What? How on earth did you get that from what I said? I don't think that at all!
Frankly, I could not tell you what "live like a theist" or "live like an atheist" even looks like. That sounds like nonsense. "Live like a Catholic" or "live like a geologist or "live like a gamer" are things that compute.