Isn't this cute?

[Wildswanderer]

So no one ever actually plotted to "indoctrinate" the world's biology majors into evolution, it just kinda happened, eh?

Of course...it's a self perpetuating cycle.
The same goes for many subjects, really. The cultures trend is inevitably going to come through the teachers lessons. Ever notice how liberals love to hate on any teacher that bucks the trend even in just certain areas?

 

[Jose Fly]

Of course...it's a self perpetuating cycle.
The same goes for many subjects, really. The cultures trend is inevitably going to come through the teachers lessons. Ever notice how liberals love to hate on any teacher that bucks the trend even in just certain areas?

So again, if you've never been in an upper-level biology classroom, how do you know so much about what goes on in them, even to the point where you apparently know about ones across the world and over the last 100+ years?

 

[Kooky]

The entire Hadar- Laetoli collection of around 300 bones is claimed to be from a single hominin species, supposedly a human ancestor. There were bones in there basically identical to modern humans.
These were found near human looking footprints.
Contrary to what you might find in a science book, there was no universal consensus by scientists that these were all Bones from the same specie of ape.
If you want my opinion the guy that found them went with the explanation that will bring him the most Glory.

So you can't actually explain where these bones came from.

Why not go with the one explanation that's available, then?

 

[Wildswanderer]

So you can't actually explain where these bones came from.

I have a theory, but there's more than one theory, as in most things in the distant past. There's room for interpretation.
Of course I'm going to pick the one that fits my view of the world.

 

[Kooky]

I have a theory, but there's more than one theory, as in most things in the distant past. There's room for interpretation.
Of course I'm going to pick the one that fits my view of the world.

My worldview includes people who may know more about paleontology than I do, but I can see why that would bother some.

 

[Polymath257]

Prove it.

What's there to prove? It existed in time between the ancestors of chimps and modern humans. It shows brain structures intermediate between those of other primates and those of humans. There are species both before and after that show changes in time going towards more human.

What, precisely, do you think is required to prove this species is transitional?

 

[Polymath257]

Whole lot of speculation there.

Exactly what parts of this do you see as speculative?

 

[MonkeyFire]

If you can be a monkey, maybe some of us came from angels. Idk

 

[Polymath257]

Sad how easily people are indoctrinated.

And wonderful how education can lead them out of it. Which is what the class was all about.

 

[Polymath257]

Because they have been taught what to teach. It's not that hard to understand.

Many of them are researchers in the subject, going out to find new fossils (for example) or dealing with the genetics.

Why would those people, who are actually studying the real evidence, go out and teach something they know is false?

 

[Polymath257]

So you are saying if the majority believe something it must be true? How has that worked out historically?

if the majority of people who specialize in studying a subject, have access to the data for that subject, and are encouraged to find mistakes in the views handed down to them *still* think those views are correct, then it is very likely to be the case.

 

[Polymath257]

Of course...it's a self perpetuating cycle.
The same goes for many subjects, really. The cultures trend is inevitably going to come through the teachers lessons. Ever notice how liberals love to hate on any teacher that bucks the trend even in just certain areas?

Hardly the way things work in a science curriculum.

For one thing, to get a PhD, you need to come up with a *new* idea or observation.

Second, people are rewarded for showing that previously held ideas are wrong. Bucking the trend is encouraged *if* you have the evidence to back up your ideas.

The vast majority of the information for a PhD does NOT come from the classroom or from a teacher's lessons.

 

[Wildswanderer]

What's there to prove? It existed in time between the ancestors of chimps and modern humans.

Ok, first prove there was such a time.

 

[Wildswanderer]

What, precisely, do you think is required to prove this species is transitional?

Why would it have to be transitional? Scientists have argued it might be anything from a chimp to an ape to an early human. That does not inspire a lot of confidence in the most popular interpretation.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Many of them are researchers in the subject, going out to find new fossils (for example) or dealing with the genetics.

Why would those people, who are actually studying the real evidence, go out and teach something they know is false?

I didn't say they know it's false. Obviously they have already had thier indoctrination. However there's also people in those fields who are skeptical about Darwinism.

 

[Wildswanderer]

if the majority of people who specialize in studying a subject, have access to the data for that subject, and are encouraged to find mistakes in the views handed down to them *still* think those views are correct, then it is very likely to be the case.

The majority of people in science used to believe the Earth was the center of the universe.

 

[Polymath257]

Ok, first prove there was such a time.

Done by radioactive dating, for example. But that is far from the only way.

 

[Polymath257]

Why would it have to be transitional? Scientists have argued it might be anything from a chimp to an ape to an early human. That does not inspire a lot of confidence in the most popular interpretation.

And why is it possible to argue that? BECAUSE ITS TRANSITIONAL.

Transitional organisms don't fit into nice categories. So there tend to be arguments about how they should be classified.

It was never thought to simply be a chimp. It *is* an ape. And it is an ancestor of humans.

 

[Polymath257]

The majority of people in science used to believe the Earth was the center of the universe.

Nope. Science didn't really start until about 1600AD and the discovery that that the Earth is not the center was one of the first discoveries.

 

[Polymath257]

I didn't say they know it's false. Obviously they have already had thier indoctrination. However there's also people in those fields who are skeptical about Darwinism.

Indoctrination is what religion does, not science. Religion has a set collection of ideas that it requires its followers to adhere to. Science doesn't work like that.

What *is* required in science is to have evidence.

And yes, there are some that are skeptical about Darwinism. They question whether natural selection is the *only* mechanism for evolution.

Those that question whether species change over time ALWAYS come from a religious background that prevents them from questioning some holy text.

I wonder why that is?