Israel’s war crimes in Gaza are by design, not default

[Bthoth]

I'm not contesting your integrity.

I'm saying if you are a jew, your post appears to be trying to gatekeep Jewishness in a fallacious fashion.

I said I love most every Jew that I know.

If you are not a jew, it appears much more distasteful than that.

if a person is upset that I appreciate the wisdom of judaism as a religion, then OK. I cannot fix the hatred that some possess.

I don't know what kind of pantheist you are, or if you are culturally or ethnically Jewish. I provided both judgments so that you may reflect on which ever is applicable here.

What judgment? Share what I have said against any Jew. Are you upset that I DO NOT support settlers attacking the mount and laugh that there is no temple on that location?

Show me what I write that earned your attack against my words? Allow me to learn but I am not the type to let some authority, rule what is true, as any soul is capable to be think beyond maintaining compliance to religious belief.

 

[Revoltingest]

So, we have @Revoltingest appending this Snopes article to a recent post which, curiously, makes no mention of it. It's simply there as window dressing. Why?

It is to counter the common Christian & Jewish claims
that Palestinians are full of hate for Jews, & that they
teach their children hate for Jews. The song shows there
is much hatred flowing in the opposite direction too.

Let's first note the following two excerpts from the 21 November Times of Israel:

• An Israeli organization calling itself The Civil Front has sparked controversy on social media by producing a song in which children fete the “destruction” in Gaza and say “nothing will be left there” in a year’s time.
• In Israel, some users hailed the new version as “moving” and inducing “goosebumps,” but much of the reaction was strongly negative. “Nauseating. Are you able to do anything besides desecrate the original, sully it with Kahanism and cause Israel public relations damage?” one person commented. Others called the clip “insane” and “the epitome of bad taste.”

So a non-governmental group promoted a jingoistic song which some hailed as moving while much of the reaction was negative. What an absolutely perfect incident to use to smear Israel and Israelis since, presumably, all Israelis think alike.

I'm not sure which I find more disgusting, the redacted song or the irresponsible way it's being insinuated into these discussions.

You might also be disgusted by the paucity of
repudiation by Israel apologists. You counter
by saying not all Israelis are alike. But this
beneficence isn't afforded Palestinians, who
are slaughtered & now to be forcibly removed
from Gaza.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It is to counter the common Christian & Jewish claims
that Palestinians are full of hate for Jews, & that they
teach their children hate for Jews. The song shows there
is much hatred flowing in the opposite direction too.

That "there is much hatred flowing in the opposite direction, does not counter the claim that there is substantial jew-hatred among the Palestinians and, apparently, a few folks from Revoltingstan.

 

[Firenze]

You demonstrate a remarkable ignorance of the Shoah.

Nazi Germany saw Jews as subhuman vermin.
Israel sees Palestinian Arabs as cockroaches.
It's a pretty obvious similarity.

 

[Revoltingest]

That "there is much hatred flowing in the opposite direction, does not counter the claim that there is substantial jew-hatred among the Palestinians and, apparently, a few folks fro Revoltingstan.

You'd benefit from understanding that seeing hatred
among Palestinians, but not among Jews will give you
a false perspective. You also need to understand why
Palestinians would hate Jews, ie, that God's Chosen
People have been brutally oppressing, killing, & keeping
them destitute for 70+ years. Making people angry &
desperate is bound to trigger hatred & violent retaliation.
Israel singularly can & should end this cycle of conflict.

 

[libre]

I said I love most every Jew that I know.

That's a nice sentiment, but you undermined it immediately in the following words when you characterized others to not be real jews.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Israel sees Palestinian Arabs as cockroaches.

Israel? Proof?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You'd benefit from ...

I'd benefit from reviewing your past posts focused on condemning Hamas for genocide and demanding the immediate release of the hostages.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I said I love most every Jew that I know.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'd benefit from reviewing your past posts focused on condemning Hamas for genocide and demanding the immediate release of the hostages.

According to the definition of "genocide" I linked,
Hamas doesn't even come close to committing it.
It poses no existential threat to Israel at all. Israel
has killed 20 times as many Palestinians as Hamas
did Israelis. Israel, with a much larger population,
also has the full might of USA supporting its
genocide of Palestinians & extermination of Hamas.

I don't condemn Hamas. What it did is wrong, but
it's an inexorable response to violent oppression
by Israel. So Israel is the one deserving the far
greater portion of criticism....because it is in charge,
& it created this conflict.

 

[Firenze]

Israel? Proof?

The proof comes from the mouth of Ariel Sharon. He was quoted as referring to Palestinian Arabs as 'cockroaches' - and was so often recorded by his staff as saying "Let's keep in mind that we're talking about Arabs" when his war crimes were mentioned or referenced, that it became a sick joke in his administration. And although many in the Israeli government wagged their finger at him in disgust for his responsibility in the massacres of women and children at Shatilla and Qibya - the good people of Israel still elected him Prime Minister.

Five Numbers That Suggest Ariel Sharon Was a War Criminal

The whitewashing of the late Ariel Sharon's blood-stained legacy was both predictable - and predicted. But that doesn't make it any less forgivable or tolerable.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

Israel’s apartheid against Palestinians: a cruel system of domination and a crime against humanity

Israeli authorities must be held accountable for committing the crime of apartheid against Palestinians, Amnesty International said today in a damning new report. The investigation details how Israel enforces a system of oppression and domination against the Palestinian people wherever it has...

www.amnesty.org

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

For a while I thought the term genocide was a bit hyperbolic in this 'conflict' but I have to admit that when one objectively looks at everything Israel has done in Gaza, I have changed my mind. Their bulldozing of Palestinian cemeteries was the last straw for me.

The IDF did not dig the tunnels beneath the cemetery the terrorists are using.

 

[libre]

The IDF did not dig the tunnels beneath the cemetery the terrorists are using.

At this point I honestly can't tell if this is a joke or unironic apologia.

 

[LuisDantas]

Gotta say, the criticism of Israel strike me as quite surreal, all things considered.

Are people consistently forgetting all that happens in the region?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

The reality is that BOTH sides have and are committing war crimes.

Irrelevant. You can't use war crimes to justify doing more war crimes.

And what I can claim is that Hamas obviously started this latest round with their 10-7 attack, murder, rape, etc. of Israeli civilians.

Again, if you're going to justify or downplay war crimes by saying the other side started it, then you have no basis to condemn Hamas.

Hamas has repeatedly committed war crimes for years, so this is not new.

And Israel doing war crimes isn't new either. It's just pretty obvious that you can't justify committing war crimes by pointing to other war crimes. If we do that, you can condemn neither Israel nor Hamas. If you believe what Hamas did was unjustified (which, obviously, it is) despite whatever Israel may have done to Gaza or the West Bank in the past, you cannot then turn around and say "because of what Hamas did, what Israel is doing can't be considered that bad" or downplay it implicitly along those rhetorical lines.

Seriously, this conversation reminds me of another thread in which a poster was attempting to justify excessive police violence against protesters with logic along the lines of "well, they must have been doing SOMETHING to deserve it", which completely misses the point of the violence being EXCESSIVE. You can justify a RESPONSE, but you can't justify WAR CRIMES any more than you can justify EXCESSIVE police violence. That's literally just what that means.

We can agree that Hamas are evil, that their actions on 7/10 were vile, that justice demands the release of the hundreds of Israeli civilians they've kidnapped, that swift and reasonable military action against Hamas is justified in response to the well over 1,200 innocent civilians who were slaughtered by Hamas. We can agree to ALL OF THAT and STILL SAY "The actions Israel is currently taking in Gaza, the damage they have done, the tactics they have used, and TENS OF THOUSANDS OF CIVILIANS THEY HAVE KILLED is unjustified and can be considered war crimes".

This is called moral consistency. I fail to see why it is difficult for people to grasp it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Excerpted....
In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group".

According to the definition of "genocide" I linked,
Hamas doesn't even come close to committing it.

^ it's almost incomprehensible ...

 

[Firenze]

The reality is that BOTH sides have and are committing war crimes. And what I can claim is that Hamas obviously started this latest round with their 10-7 attack, murder, rape, etc. of Israeli civilians. Hamas has repeatedly committed war crimes for years, so this is not new.

Your equivalent argument:

"Daddy! Tommy down the street hit me first! That's why I got all my friends to beat him, his family, all his friends, and their children!"

(At least 26,751 people have been killed and 65,636 wounded in Israeli attacks on Gaza since October 7. The death toll in Israel from the October 7 Hamas attacks stands at 1,139.) - as of yesterday.

 

[Firenze]

No, I explained what was supposedly in the cards with the Declaration as the Palestinian lands had far more territory than the Jewish ones that were set aside. As I said before, Jordan and other territories surround the new state generally refused to allow them in and then turned around and provided them with weapons and encouragement to fight.

And how many of the 700,000 Palestinians that had lived their for 1000 years were signatories to that document giving away their land and allowing an occupying force backed by the most powerful military in the world to inexorably move them out?

 

[Bthoth]

That's a nice sentiment, but you undermined it immediately in the following words when you characterized others to not be real jews.

Here on this channel, and on many sites online.... i doubt the credibility of what and who they claim to be.

That is my choice as I observe what people represent in contrast to what they claim to be.

I guess i see Jews are far more credible based on the culture and personal experience of most of my life. And i am well aware that Israel DOES NOT represent the Jews of the world because of what Jews have told me personally.

 

[Bthoth]

Gotta say, the criticism of Israel strike me as quite surreal, all things considered.

Are people consistently forgetting all that happens in the region?

What is so strange about it? Did you actually consider israel infallible?

I know, with all that has happened in the region, i am surprised it has been allowed to happen for so long.

When folk began calling the divide as a holy war, i was for quite some time, afraid for israel.