Israel defending Saudi Arabia

[Shad]

Er, the people who live there. What a stupid question. All peoples should be in charge of their own homelands. Leave them alone.

This is unrealistic and so naive of geopolitics I have no idea what to really say besides idealistic fantasy. The arms trade alone shows how ill-informed you are. Many of these nations willingly align themselves with a global power. If the US pulls out those nations are going to pick Russia or China.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This is unrealistic and so naive of geopolitics I have no idea what to really say besides idealistic fantasy. The arms trade alone shows how ill-informed you are. Many of these nations willingly align themselves with a global power. If the US pulls out those nations are going to pick Russia or China.

I don't give a damn how naive you think it is. I am well-aware of the geopolitical realities of it. What is obvious is that the West's meddling in that region has wrecked and destabilized the Middle East. We opened the gates for ISIS and Al-Qaeda to run amuck by overthrowing governments and creating power vacuums. I don't appreciate my country arming and financing psychopaths like the Saudis (a country that I would be subject to capital punishment in) or the warmongering loons in the Israeli government. Our foreign policy in the region has completely failed and resulted in decades of horrific human rights abuses and war after war. I want our troops home. I want the money going to Israel and the Saudis to be kept here, for Americans, and not to bomb poor Palestinians and Yemenis into smithereens. I want us to stop funding terrorism and making people hate us more and more. If they want to ally with Russia and China, that's their business. It's time to grow up and stop acting like we have the right to own the world. Especially when the US is falling apart. Also, you're Canadian, right? Your country isn't the one being driven into a ditch here. Worry about your own country like I worry about mine.

 

[Flankerl]

They're all pretty bad. Israel wouldn't be so bad if the loony warmongers like Netanyahu weren't in power, if there was a more sane political movement in power.

Free elections are quite annoying aren't they?

 

[Shad]

I don't give a damn how naive you think it is. I am well-aware of the geopolitical realities of it. What is obvious is that the West's meddling in that region has wrecked and destabilized the Middle East. We opened the gates for ISIS and Al-Qaeda to run amuck by overthrowing governments and creating power vacuums. I don't appreciate my country arming and financing psychopaths like the Saudis (a country that I would be subject to capital punishment in) or the warmongering loons in the Israeli government. Our foreign policy in the region has completely failed and resulted in decades of horrific human rights abuses and war after war. I want our troops home. I want the money going to Israel and the Saudis to be kept here, for Americans, and not to bomb poor Palestinians and Yemenis into smithereens. I want us to stop funding terrorism and making people hate us more and more. If they want to ally with Russia and China, that's their business. It's time to grow up and stop acting like we have the right to own the world. Especially when the US is falling apart. Also, you're Canadian, right? Your country isn't the one being driven into a ditch here. Worry about your own country like I worry about mine.

Yup idealistic fantasy.

Canada depends on the USA for defense and trade. Looking after one's own nation as if isolation is possible is nonsense.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yup idealistic fantasy.

Canada depends on the USA for defense and trade. Looking after one's own nation as if isolation is possible is nonsense.

I do vote my principles and your opinion on it doesn't matter at all. If you want change, you have to work for it.

Your country should look after itself instead of riding on our backs. Canada is not our responsibility. I didn't say I wanted total isolation, by the way. Nationalism is not the same as isolationism.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Free elections are quite annoying aren't they?

When the populace is crazy or ill-informed, yes. We have the same problem here.

 

[Shad]

I do vote my principles and your opinion on it doesn't matter at all. If you want change, you have to work for it.

There is change that is practical and there is change that isn't. Your views are by far the later even if far more positive than the former.

Your country should look after itself instead of riding on our backs. Canada is not our responsibility. I didn't say I wanted total isolation, by the way. Nationalism is not the same as isolationism.

If the USA pulls out the whole region of the planet and ignores politics there that is a form of isolation. One which harm the West far more than help it.

I agree Canada should be using more resources for it's own interests over that of the USA and reliance upon the USA. However that isn't going to happen as Canada is in a strategic location for the defense of the USA. Ergo Norad.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There is change that is practical and there is change that isn't. Your views are by far the later even if far more positive than the former.



If the USA pulls out the whole region of the planet and ignores politics there that is a form of isolation. One which harm the West far more than help it.

I agree Canada should be using more resources for it's own interests over that of the USA and reliance upon the USA. However that isn't going to happen as Canada is in a strategic location for the defense of the USA. Ergo Norad.

Um, what we've been doing over there has not helped America at all. No idea where you get that idea from. Oil, maybe? That's about it, and we could get that from elsewhere. We have destabilized the region, creating a breeding ground for violent radical Jihidists which are then exported all around the world (or they radicalize people online) to carry out attacks. We have stoked the fires of anti-American hatred that will burn for generations. We have helped to cause probably the worst refugee and migrant crisis since WWII. We have helped to worsen the opoid epidemic by keeping those poppy fields growing, flooding the market with tons of cheap heroin for Americans to use and OD on. Meanwhile we are trillions of dollars in debt due to playing world police.

To me, it sounds like you're living in la-la land but you dare call me naive. You're the one who is delusional if you can't see plain reality. Get real. Like the War on Drugs, our policy in the Middle East is a complete failure and disaster. The psychopaths running this country into a ditch don't care, though. Too much money to be made and they won't be around when the bill comes due.

 

[Shad]

Um, what we've been doing over there has not helped America at all.

You are only looking tangible gains and not the geopolitics power a hegemony has nor that it helps maintain a standard of living that the West has enjoyed

No idea where you get that idea from. Oil, maybe? That's about it, and we could get that from elsewhere.

Most ME oil goes to China, India and the EU.

We have destabilized the region, creating a breeding ground for violent radical Jihidists which are then exported all around the world (or they radicalize people online) to carry out attacks.

The region was never stable. More so if you are looking at past relations Iraq, KSA, Egypt, Turkey and Pakistan are all allies of the US and have been for decades.

The only thing keeping Jihadist in check were the tyrannical governments and overwhelming use of force. You more likely than not hate both.

We have stoked the fires of anti-American hatred that will burn for generations.

Those fires have been burning for decades.

We have helped to cause probably the worst refugee and migrant crisis since WWII.

America didn't start the Syrian Civil War.

We have helped to worsen the opoid epidemic by keeping those poppy fields growing, flooding the market with tons of cheap heroin for Americans to use and OD on. Meanwhile we are trillions of dollars in debt due to playing world police.

Isn't the very type of intervention you are against? Ironic.

To me, it sounds like you're living in la-la land but you dare call me naive. You're the one who is delusional if you can't see plain reality. Get real.

Wrong. I accept the negatives of being under an American hegemony when the alternatives are China or Russia. Unless EU gets some will power and an military (a real one) soon.

our policy in the Middle East is a complete failure and disaster.

Hardly. The American hegemony is still intact. No ME power real threat to the USA nor it's allies.

The psychopaths running this country into a ditch don't care, though. Too much money to be made and they won't be around when the bill comes due.

I reject the idea none care.

Money makes the world turn. Ignore this fact at your own peril.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You are only looking tangible gains and not the geopolitics power a hegemony has nor that it helps maintain a standard of living that the West has enjoyed




Most ME oil goes to China, India and the EU.



The region was never stable. More so if you are looking at past relations Iraq, KSA, Egypt, Turkey and Pakistan are all allies of the US and have been for decades.

The only thing keeping Jihadist in check were the tyrannical governments and overwhelming use of force. You more likely than not hate both.



Those fires have been burning for decades.



America didn't start the Syrian Civil War.



Isn't the very type of intervention you are against? Ironic.



Wrong. I accept the negatives of being under an American hegemony when the alternatives are China or Russia. Unless EU gets some will power and an military (a real one) soon.



Hardly. The American hegemony is still intact. No ME power real threat to the USA nor it's allies.



I reject the idea none care.

Money makes the world turn. Ignore this fact at your own peril.

You apparently don't even know what my position is. I don't think we should've overthrown the Taliban or Saddam. It was the Taliban that stopped the cultivation of opium. As for the Syrian Civil War, that started with the US backed "Arab Spring" and the US armed and trained opposition groups.

For the last time, I don't care what Russia and China do. That's worlds away. The West is waning and in decline. That includes America. The EU, too. Accept it and get over it. The future doesn't belong to us. I want my country to regain some sanity before things just get worse and worse. The middle class is being destroyed, more and more wealth and power is concentrated in the hands of a few and the political divisions are making us hate and fear each other. We need to turn our attention to our own people. You and I will never agree because you sound like some sort of neocon imperialist and I despise neoconservatism for the most part.

 

[Flankerl]

When the populace is crazy or ill-informed, yes. We have the same problem here.

Fun fact: If the Arabs hadn't mistreated the Mizrahim and Sephardim so much, they wouldn't be voting Likud.

Though I of course understand that you find everyone crazy or ill-informed who has a different opinion than you.

 

[Shad]

You apparently don't even know what my position is. I don't think we should've overthrown the Taliban or Saddam.

Yet you complain about poppies crops America didn't destroy.

]quote]It was the Taliban that stopped the cultivation of opium. As for the Syrian Civil War, that started with the US backed "Arab Spring" and the US armed and trained opposition groups.[/quote]

In 2001. Last year 40% of its funding came from opium as it uses the drugs now that it is out of power. Arab Spring wasn't a military revolution. US arming happened after the war started.

For the last time, I don't care what Russia and China do. That's worlds away.

Which is an isolationist view and a dangerous one.

The West is waning and in decline. That includes America. The EU, too. Accept it and get over it.

I never said it wasn't declining.

The future doesn't belong to us. I want my country to regain some sanity before things just get worse and worse. The middle class is being destroyed, more and more wealth and power is concentrated in the hands of a few and the political divisions are making us hate and fear each other. We need to turn our attention to our own people. You and I will never agree because you sound like some sort of neocon imperialist and I despise neoconservatism for the most part.

Wrong. I just accept geopolitics while you want to bury your head in the sand.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yet you complain about poppies crops America didn't destroy.

It was the Taliban that stopped the cultivation of opium. As for the Syrian Civil War, that started with the US backed "Arab Spring" and the US armed and trained opposition groups.

In 2001. Last year 40% of its funding came from opium as it uses the drugs now that it is out of power. Arab Spring wasn't a military revolution. US arming happened after the war started.



Which is an isolationist view and a dangerous one.



I never said it wasn't declining.



Wrong. I just accept geopolitics while you want to bury your head in the sand.

I'm done here. It's pointless. You broke the quote code, too.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Fun fact: If the Arabs hadn't mistreated the Mizrahim and Sephardim so much, they wouldn't be voting Likud.

Though I of course understand that you find everyone crazy or ill-informed who has a different opinion than you.

Wow, talk about a projection. You, who accused everyone who doesn't hate Muslims and Palestinians as much as you, of being a Nazi or anti-Semite. What a joke.

 

[Flankerl]

How nice of you to address the first sentence.

Oh wait you didn't because it's a truth that is better left unspoken.

 

[UpperLimits]

You think it's weird? Both Saudi Arabia and Israel are US allies in the region. News like this kept coming for some time now:

'An open secret': Saudi Arabia and Israel get cozy

Not surprising. Two things about the middle east.... "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" and, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Understand that, and everything else will make sense.