Israel (is) my son...my firstborn.

[Redemptionsong]

Certainly. But there may be other sons.

This is exactly my point. The 'Son' is the seed, from which the 'sons' are born. Christ is the seed, and the sons of God are his generation. This is the eternal truth, as opposed to the temporal truth found in 'old' lsrael. There, the individual father is Jacob (called lsrael), and his children are the lsraelites.

 

[Redemptionsong]

According to the new covenant scriptures, just like Gods' Israel is no longer only those born of the seed of Abraham in the flesh, a Jew is no longer those who are born of the flesh but are now all those who have been born of the Spirit by faith.

• Romans 2:28-29 28, For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29, But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

• Galatians 3:28-29 28, There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29, And if you be Christ's, then are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

None of us can know Gods' Word unless Gods Spirit is our guide and teacher (see John 14:26; John 16:13; John 7:17; 1 John 2:27). This is a part of God's new covenant promise from Hebrews 8:10-12.

God bless

I totally accept what you say.

But what do you make of Romans 11:25,26? Paul asks, Hath God cast away his people? By this he meant 'old' lsrael, not the Church.

What l am adding, is that old lsrael has yet to accept Christ, but many in Judah will do so at the point of Christ's return, and during the tribulation.

This is all quite debatable, but to my understanding the rapture occurs at the beginning of the seven years of tribulation, but the Lord does not return to set his feet upon the Mount of Olives until the end of the tribulation. During that period men and women in Judah and Jerusalem will come to accept Christ and be saved. This allows for a time of mourning, as mentioned by Zechariah in Zechariah 12.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Jacob, who was renamed Israel, passed his name to Joseph, and Joseph passed his name to Ephraim. The Jacob/Israel had 12 initial sons, with Joseph being split into two tribes. The name Israel can refer to the Jacob, or his 12 original sons, or it can refer to Ephraim, the 10 northern tribes, the "lost sheep of Israel". As for the "first born", with respect to Psalm 89, that would be "David" (Psalm 89:3-4) or his "seed". The "seed" is the one to be set up on a throne "forever". David would be the son of Judah.



The "body" would be "My sanctuary"/tabernacle in the future (Ezekiel 37:19-28) and would include both Judah and Ephraim/Israel forever.

Yes, but the body is not the old vessel but the new.

To be part of the new vessel, one must be 'born again' of the Spirit of Christ. This applies to all who call themselves 'lsrael/Ephraim' and Judah.

This is the whole point of Jeremiah 31:33. Jeremiah says, 'After those days'. So which days do you think he is talking about?

 

[Redemptionsong]

It's not "apparent" that all scripture has a double meaning at all. Christians repeat this, but that doesn't make it so. Christians made that theological concept up out of whole cloth. They believe in Jesus and then go back and "see" their Christ in scriptures wherein he doesn't exist.

I have no doubt that the revelation of Jesus Christ, brought to us in the NT, and through the indwelling Holy Spirit, does affect Christian outlook on the Tanakh.

What l am arguing is something that is hard to deny if one looks carefully at scripture. God sets the earthly story side by side with a heavenly meaning. Indeed, parables are used in the OT. This is not something new. The rabbis of old were very adept at reading into the text and seeing spiritual lessons.

The great stumbling block was, and still is, the person of the Messiah, whom the later rabbis had painted as a great king and leader, ignoring the fact that 'my servant David' had a history prior to becoming king. Where, one might ask, is the 'suffering servant' David'?

 

[3rdAngel]

I totally accept what you say.

But what do you make of Romans 11:25,26? Paul asks, Hath God cast away his people? By this he meant 'old' lsrael, not the Church.

What l am adding, is that old lsrael has yet to accept Christ, but many in Judah will do so at the point of Christ's return, and during the tribulation.

This is all quite debatable, but to my understanding the rapture occurs at the beginning of the seven years of tribulation, but the Lord does not return to set his feet upon the Mount of Olives until the end of the tribulation. During that period men and women in Judah and Jerusalem will come to accept Christ and be saved. This allows for a time of mourning, as mentioned by Zechariah in Zechariah 12.

God has not cast away His people. His people in both the old and new testament scriptures have always been those who believe and follow what God's Word says. In the old testament these were only those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham and converted and circumcised gentile proselytes. In the new testament Gods Israel are all those who have been born again in the Spirit by believing and following what Gods Word says. If those unbelieving Jews were cut out choose to believed they could be grafted back in was the context of Romans 11:13-26. That also aligns with all the other scriptures that define who God's Israel is in the new covenant. That is all those who have been born of the Spirit to believe and follow what Gods' Word says.

 

[Soapy]

I have been listening to Rabbi Tovia Singer arguing that Israel is the firstborn of God. In so doing, he makes the case that Jesus Christ cannot, therefore, be the firstborn of God, and that Christians who hold to such a belief are guilty of 'replacement theology'.

I think he is wrong, at least in part, and I'd like to explain where I think he is in error.

Here's a passage to lead us in:
Exodus 4:22. 'And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:'

So, 'Israel' is here assumed to be a reference to the children of Israel. Thereafter, Rabbi Singer will make the case that the firstborn son is consistently a reference to the children of Israel, brought together by God, under Moses, and under the Torah.

I would now like to ask, Where is Israel first mentioned in scripture?

Genesis 32:28. 'And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob ['following after, supplanter'], but Israel ['ruling with God']: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed'.

Interestingly, although Jacob 'shall be called no more Jacob', we discover that Jacob, son of Isaac, continues to be called Jacob, but interspersed with 'Israel'. Why is this?

The children of Jacob [Joshua 24:4] have a father, Jacob. Do the 'children of Israel' have a father, Israel? If so, what is the difference between the 'children of Jacob' and the 'children of Israel'?

The reason I make this distinction is because I think it matters. The children are a product of their father. Are the 'children of Israel' the ones who see God 'face to face' [Genesis 32:30]?

Do you think Rabbi Singer's claims about Israel as the 'firstborn son' are legitimate? Is it not possible that 'Israel' 'my firstborn' refers to BOTH head and body, to both Messiah and his followers?

I refer to the first point: ‘Firstborn Son’.

The term ‘Firstborn’ is not the same as ‘First Born’.

1. The first means: ‘Most loved’.
2. The latter means: ‘First out from the womb of a parent’.

It is obvious that the nation of Israel cannot be ref 2. But ref 1 fits perfectly: Out of all the nations on earth in the times of Jews in slavery to the Egyptian the God of the Israelites states that the Israelite nation is Most Beloved by Him.

We can see other references to ‘Firstborn’ meaning ‘Most Beloved’ in regard to those whom Yahweh set aside for himself and more often were not the ‘First Born’ (note the spelling and extra space) of a parent:

• Adam - first created … Jesus Christ - the Second/Last Adam as ‘Firstborn’ of God
• Cain - first born from Adam… Seth
• Abraham was not the first born of his Father
• Ismael - first born of Abraham - Isaac ‘firstborn’ of Abraham
• Though Esau was ‘First Born’ AND ‘Firstborn’ of Isaac, Jacob, never-the-less became the blessed ‘Firstborn’ of Isaac at the blessing
• Rueben and Joseph
  
• Manessah and Ephraim
• There are many other such examples including Saul - David, Solomon, etc.

Therefore a close watch needs to be taken in the understanding and use of the terms ‘First born’ and ‘Firstborn’.

 

[2ndpillar]

Yes, but the body is not the old vessel but the new.

To be part of the new vessel, one must be 'born again' of the Spirit of Christ. This applies to all who call themselves 'lsrael/Ephraim' and Judah.

This is the whole point of Jeremiah 31:33. Jeremiah says, 'After those days'. So which days do you think he is talking about?

"Behold the days are coming" (Jeremiah 31;31) when I will make a covenant with the "house of Israel" and the "house of Judah", would be after the judgments made upon Judah and Ephraim/Israel per Hosea 5:14-6:11, when "I will restore the fortunes of My people". The judgments upon My people" have continued on thru the reign of Hitler and His 3rd Reich (3rd Roman empire). As for being "born again", well, "no one born of God practices sin" (1 John 3:6-9). Whereas the leader of the Gentile church is the "foremost" sinner, Paul, and his followers, the lesser sinners, qualify for the position of being called "least" (Matthew 5:19) by those in the "kingdom". As for the "Spirit of Christ", that would be the anointing of God, the Spirit of prophecy (Revelation 19:10). The "new covenant" of Jeremiah 31:31 is when I will write my Law within their heart. Which is after Israel is taken out of the nations/Gentiles (Ezekiel 36:24-28) and I give them a "new heart and a new spirit", and "you will live on the land I gave to your forefathers". At this time, only Judah is on the land given to "your forefathers", Ephraim/Israel, the lost sheep of Israel, remain "scattered among the nations" (Ez 36:19).

 

[Redemptionsong]

God has not cast away His people. His people in both the old and new testament scriptures have always been those who believe and follow what God's Word says. In the old testament these were only those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham and converted and circumcised gentile proselytes. In the new testament Gods Israel are all those who have been born again in the Spirit by believing and following what Gods Word says. If those unbelieving Jews were cut out choose to believed they could be grafted back in was the context of Romans 11:13-26. That also aligns with all the other scriptures that define who God's Israel is in the new covenant. That is all those who have been born of the Spirit to believe and follow what Gods' Word says.

You appear to accept a full-blown version of 'replacement theology'. This means that 'old' lsrael no longer exists in the eyes of God. Am l correct in thinking that old Israel died in the heart of God the day that new Israel was born at Pentecost? Is that your understanding?

The implication of this 'replacement' is that any prophecy that relates to lsrael after Pentecost must be about 'new' lsrael. And 'new' lsrael equates with the Church, the 'born again' believers in Christ.

At Pentecost, 120 individuals were baptised in the Holy Spirit. Another 3000 Jewish souls accepted Peter's preaching on that day. This was not a huge number, but their impact over the next few decades was extraordinary.

A small band of Jewish apostles took the Gospel to the Jews first. When the Jewish religious establishment rejected the Gospel, and distanced itself from the Christians, the Church then became, for the most part, a Gentile Church.

It's all very well saying that the Church is made up of Jew and Gentile, but when one surveys history, the Church, since the first century, has been, primarily, a Gentile Church. Jews, for the most part, have continued to live by the laws and customs of Judaism.

The fact that Jews continue to maintain a distinct cultural and religious identity is also connected to the land, Eretz Israel. This land has always figured centrally in Jewish theology, and features extensively in all the prophetic writings.

After the destruction of the temple in 70 CE, and the end of the Jewish wars, the 'diaspora' began. Jews were forced from Eretz lsrael, and they sought refuge in one land after another. For two thousand years, Jews had no homeland.

In Hosea 6:1-3, it says:
'Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us: he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth'.

What do you think this means? Is it related to the diaspora? Why should God be concerned about the return of old Israel to the land of lsrael when old lsrael is no longer in his heart?

Then we have to explain the final week of Daniel's prophecy [Daniel 9:24-27]. Daniel locates the events of this prophecy in the land of Israel, because that is where the city and the sanctuary stand.

The thing about Daniel's prophecy in Daniel 9 is that it appears to have nothing to do with the Church. It concerns old Israel, not new lsrael. New lsrael is a nation without an earthly inheritance, unless, of course, you believe that the promise to Abraham was a promise made to the Church, new Israel. In this case, an awful lot of Gentile Christians are going to be moving to the Promised Land!

If Daniel's final week takes place after the Church has been caught up with Christ in the air (the 'rapture'), then it has nothing to do with the Church age. It must be a prophecy intended for Ephraim' and Judah, or old lsrael.

Do you think that Christians are awaiting an earthly existence in the Promised Land?

 

[Redemptionsong]

"Behold the days are coming" (Jeremiah 31;31) when I will make a covenant with the "house of Israel" and the "house of Judah", would be after the judgments made upon Judah and Ephraim/Israel per Hosea 5:14-6:11, when "I will restore the fortunes of My people". The judgments upon My people" have continued on thru the reign of Hitler and His 3rd Reich (3rd Roman empire). As for being "born again", well, "no one born of God practices sin" (1 John 3:6-9). Whereas the leader of the Gentile church is the "foremost" sinner, Paul, and his followers, the lesser sinners, qualify for the position of being called "least" (Matthew 5:19) by those in the "kingdom". As for the "Spirit of Christ", that would be the anointing of God, the Spirit of prophecy (Revelation 19:10). The "new covenant" of Jeremiah 31:31 is when I will write my Law within their heart. Which is after Israel is taken out of the nations/Gentiles (Ezekiel 36:24-28) and I give them a "new heart and a new spirit", and "you will live on the land I gave to your forefathers". At this time, only Judah is on the land given to "your forefathers", Ephraim/Israel, the lost sheep of Israel, remain "scattered among the nations" (Ez 36:19).

I have a number of issues with what you say here.

According to your understanding, the Gentiles have not been reached by the light of Christ, and the Pentecostal experience is a meaningless lie.

Of course, this also makes Jesus a liar, since he was the one who promised the Comforter to his disciples!

 

[Redemptionsong]

I refer to the first point: ‘Firstborn Son’.

The term ‘Firstborn’ is not the same as ‘First Born’.

1. The first means: ‘Most loved’.
2. The latter means: ‘First out from the womb of a parent’.

It is obvious that the nation of Israel cannot be ref 2. But ref 1 fits perfectly: Out of all the nations on earth in the times of Jews in slavery to the Egyptian the God of the Israelites states that the Israelite nation is Most Beloved by Him.

We can see other references to ‘Firstborn’ meaning ‘Most Beloved’ in regard to those whom Yahweh set aside for himself and more often were not the ‘First Born’ (note the spelling and extra space) of a parent:

• Adam - first created … Jesus Christ - the Second/Last Adam as ‘Firstborn’ of God
• Cain - first born from Adam… Seth
• Abraham was not the first born of his Father
• Ismael - first born of Abraham - Isaac ‘firstborn’ of Abraham
• Though Esau was ‘First Born’ AND ‘Firstborn’ of Isaac, Jacob, never-the-less became the blessed ‘Firstborn’ of Isaac at the blessing
• Rueben and Joseph
  
• Manessah and Ephraim
• There are many other such examples including Saul - David, Solomon, etc.

Therefore a close watch needs to be taken in the understanding and use of the terms ‘First born’ and ‘Firstborn’.

It's an interesting idea, but l don't see any such distinction made in the Hebrew. The 'first born' in Hebrew is usually 'bekor' and is applied in Exodus 4:22 (of lsrael) and Exodus 4:23 (of Egypt).

Is 'first born' to be distinguished from 'firstborn' in Hebrew?

 

[2ndpillar]

I have a number of issues with what you say here.

According to your understanding, the Gentiles have not been reached by the light of Christ, and the Pentecostal experience is a meaningless lie.

Of course, this also makes Jesus a liar, since he was the one who promised the Comforter to his disciples!

The "disciples" were told not to go to the "Gentiles" (Matthew 10:5). The "light" of Yeshua, the "Word made flesh" per John 1:14, was the "Word", the "Word of God", which you seem to deem "obsolete", which provided light to the world that believed him (his message). Yeshua, the "son of man" preached the "kingdom", not the false gospel of grace. As for the 'anointing" of the Spirit of God, that seemed limited to the "children", who would not need any one to teach them (1 John 2:27). As for the Gentile "Pentecostal experience", do you speak in tongues as stated by the unnamed, non-apostle writer of Acts? Yeshua's message was that it takes two witnesses to confirm any matter. Do you believe him?

 

[3rdAngel]

You appear to accept a full-blown version of 'replacement theology'. This means that 'old' lsrael no longer exists in the eyes of God. Am l correct in thinking that old Israel died in the heart of God the day that new Israel was born at Pentecost? Is that your understanding? The implication of this 'replacement' is that any prophecy that relates to lsrael after Pentecost must be about 'new' lsrael. And 'new' lsrael equates with the Church, the 'born again' believers in Christ. At Pentecost, 120 individuals were baptised in the Holy Spirit. Another 3000 Jewish souls accepted Peter's preaching on that day. This was not a huge number, but their impact over the next few decades was extraordinary. This small band of Jewish apostles took the Gospel to the Jews first. When the Jewish religious establishment rejected the Gospel, and distanced itself from the Christians, the Church then became, for the most part, a Gentile Church.

For me, what I posted in the scriptures earlier was not replacement theology but what God's Word says who Israel is in the new covenant (scriptures already supplied in post # 11 linked). God's Israel in the new covenant is simple all those who now believe and follow what Gods' Word says. This of course includes all BELIEVING Jewish and Gentile believers who are all now all one in Christ through faith in Gods' Word. In Hebrews 11:25-26 God has not cast away His people. His people in both the old and new testament scriptures have always been those who believe and follow what God's Word says. Unbelieving Jews or gentiles have never been Gods' people. In the old testament Gods' Israel was only those believing Jews who were born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham and converted and circumcised gentile proselytes. Keep in mind here that Christianity was started by believing Jews not gentiles through the promised Messiah in Christ. In the new Covenant, through the blood of Christ Gods Israel are now all those who have been born again in the Spirit and not of the flesh by believing and following what Gods Word says. If those unbelieving Jews were cut out again choose to believe Gods Word and accept Christ they could be grafted back in according to the context of Romans 11:13-26. That also aligns with all the other scriptures that define who God's Israel is in the new covenant sent to you in the linked post above. That is all those who have been born of the Spirit to believe and follow what Gods' Word says.

It's all very well saying that the Church is made up of Jew and Gentile, but when one surveys history, the Church, since the first century, has been, primarily, a Gentile Church. Jews, for the most part, have continued to live by the laws and customs of Judaism.

According to the scriptures and the biblical records, the early Church was made up of both Jewish and gentile believers and was started by Jesus as Gods promised Messiah and Christ and the Jews who believed and followed Him. Also according to the scriptures there is no more Jewish and Gentile believing as we are all now one in Christ (Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:28-29; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13; Ephesians 2:11-14). Once nationality does not matter. It is faith in Gods' Word that makes someone a believer or an unbeliever (see John 3:36; Ephesians 2:8-9).

The fact that Jews continue to maintain a distinct cultural and religious identity is also connected to the land, Eretz Israel. This land has always figured centrally in Jewish theology, and features extensively in all the prophetic writings.

According to the scriptures, unbelievers and all those who reject Gods promised Messiah in Christ are not a part of Gods' Israel as they are still in the flesh and not born of the Spirit through faith in Gods' Word *see John 3:3-7; compare 1 John 3:4-10

After the destruction of the temple in 70 CE, and the end of the Jewish wars, the 'diaspora' began. Jews were forced from Eretz lsrael, and they sought refuge in one land after another. For two thousand years, Jews had no homeland.

In Hosea 6:1-3, it says:
'Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us: he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth'.

What do you think this means? Is it related to the diaspora? Why should God be concerned about the return of old Israel to the land of lsrael when old lsrael is no longer in his heart?

Then we have to explain the final week of Daniel's prophecy [Daniel 9:24-27]. Daniel locates the events of this prophecy in the land of Israel, because that is where the city and the sanctuary stand.

The thing about Daniel's prophecy in Daniel 9 is that it appears to have nothing to do with the Church. It concerns old Israel, not new lsrael. New lsrael is a nation without an earthly inheritance, unless, of course, you believe that the promise to Abraham was a promise made to the Church, new Israel. In this case, an awful lot of Gentile Christians are going to be moving to the Promised Land!

If Daniel's final week takes place after the Church has been caught up with Christ in the air (the 'rapture'), then it has nothing to do with the Church age. It must be a prophecy intended for Ephraim' and Judah, or old lsrael.

Do you think that Christians are awaiting an earthly existence in the Promised Land?

The promised land is the new heavens and the new earth that Gods faithful will receive after the second coming. Daniel 9:24-27 is a whole new study but I believe it was a prophecy pointing to the coming of Christ in the new covenant during the captivity of Old covenant Israel during their captivity and conquering by the Babylonian empire and its restoration during the reign of the Medea and Persian empire after they conquered Babylon. Happy to share the above but it will take away from your OP.

God bless

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

This is exactly my point. The 'Son' is the seed, from which the 'sons' are born. Christ is the seed, and the sons of God are his generation. This is the eternal truth, as opposed to the temporal truth found in 'old' lsrael. There, the individual father is Jacob (called lsrael), and his children are the lsraelites.

Why only One Son?

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

According to the new covenant scriptures, just like Gods' Israel is no longer only those born of the seed of Abraham in the flesh, a Jew is no longer those who are born of the flesh but are now all those who have been born of the Spirit by faith.

• Romans 2:28-29 28, For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29, But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

• Galatians 3:28-29 28, There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29, And if you be Christ's, then are you Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

None of us can know Gods' Word unless Gods Spirit is our guide and teacher (see John 14:26; John 16:13; John 7:17; 1 John 2:27). This is a part of God's new covenant promise from Hebrews 8:10-12.

God bless

True. But another problem. The biological exclusivity of OT is replaced by spiritual exclusivity of NT. Back to square 1.

 

[3rdAngel]

True. But another problem. The biological exclusivity of OT is replaced by spiritual exclusivity of NT. Back to square 1.

Not sure what your point is here. The new covenant is not the same as the old.

 

[Shaul]

I disagree, the sheep is in one. listen, did not the apostle Paul knew this when he wrote Galatians was not Shiloh, ONE to gather the People? yes or No. your answer please.

101G.

I am honestly trying to understand what you wrote. However the English is too poorly written. It is indecipherable.

 

[Shaul]

I have no doubt that the revelation of Jesus Christ, brought to us in the NT, and through the indwelling Holy Spirit, does affect Christian outlook on the Tanakh.

What l am arguing is something that is hard to deny if one looks carefully at scripture. God sets the earthly story side by side with a heavenly meaning. Indeed, parables are used in the OT. This is not something new. The rabbis of old were very adept at reading into the text and seeing spiritual lessons.

The great stumbling block was, and still is, the person of the Messiah, whom the later rabbis had painted as a great king and leader, ignoring the fact that 'my servant David' had a history prior to becoming king. Where, one might ask, is the 'suffering servant' David'?

Actually it is easy to deny that which isn't true. Consider, if you will, that the stumbling is actually by the Christians.

David is not the suffering servant. I know Christians think so, but they are, frankly, wrong. David is the archetype of the righteous king and the progenitor of the coming moshiach. He is victorious, not suffering. The suffering servant is the righteous among the nation and the world who are the long-suffering, faithful witnesses of Torah.

 

[101G]

I am honestly trying to understand what you wrote. However the English is too poorly written. It is indecipherable.

well lets make it clear as day, scripture, Genesis 49:8 "Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee." Genesis 49:9 "Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?" Genesis 49:10 "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be." Genesis 49:11 "Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ***'s colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:" Genesis 49:12 "His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk."

Shiloh here is the Lord Jesus, the Christ.
H7886 שִׁילֹה Shiyloh (shee-lo') n/p.
1. tranquil.
2. Shiloh, an epithet of the Messiah.
[from H7951]
KJV: Shiloh.
Root(s): H7951

do you understand now?

101G.

 

[101G]

David is not the suffering servant. I know Christians think so, but they are, frankly, wrong. David is the archetype of the righteous king and the progenitor of the coming moshiach. He is victorious, not suffering. The suffering servant is the righteous among the nation and the world who are the long-suffering, faithful witnesses of Torah.

the Lord Jesus is the suffering/victorious. servant/KING.

101G.

 

[101G]

This is exactly my point. The 'Son' is the seed, from which the 'sons' are born. Christ is the seed, and the sons of God are his generation. This is the eternal truth, as opposed to the temporal truth found in 'old' lsrael. There, the individual father is Jacob (called lsrael), and his children are the lsraelites.

100% correct.

101G.