Israel's academic history from the beginning.

[shunyadragon]

And, as far as one can tell from your posts, they do not fit into your study habits. You casually offer definitive claims such as ...



as if you should be taken as the depository of truth, and despite the fact that their are many sources that would find your claim to be, at the very least, laughably shallow and incomplete.
See, for example, here, here, here and here. so, yes ...

Yet again ...

Why have you not offered a constructive response? The stench of post #11 remains.

Books do not fit in posts. The Wikipedia reference referred to other references that anyone may read,

You have offered nothing constructive in response, only the request for an illusive stack of books.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You have offered nothing constructive in response, only the request for an illusive stack of books.

I'm honestly attempting to determine if you've read a single book on the matter while you vehemently avoid the question. In my opinion the net result is that you posture as an expert while doing a real disservice to the topic.

 

[shunyadragon]

I'm honestly attempting to determine if you've read a single book on the matter while you vehemently avoid the question. In my opinion the net result is that you posture as an expert while doing a real disservice to the topic.

Based on your aggressive responses without coherent response, I seriously doubt your extremely biased knowledge competence on the subject

If you peaked at the bibliography you would find.

1. A History of Ancient Israel and Judah by Miller, James Maxwell, and Hayes, John Haralson (Westminster John Knox, 1986) ISBN 0-664-21262-X. p.36
2. ^ Jump up to:a b Porter, Benjamin W. (2016). "Assembling the Iron Age Levant: The Archaeology of Communities, Polities, and Imperial Peripheries". Journal of Archaeological Research Volume. 24 (4): 373–420. doi:10.1007/s10814-016-9093-8.

, , , and more books and published research articles..

I presented it an outline with references for further discussion, and you flunked a basic comprehension test..

 

[shunyadragon]

I'm honestly attempting to determine if you've read a single book on the matter while you vehemently avoid the question. In my opinion the net result is that you posture as an expert while doing a real disservice to the topic.

To add neither of us are experts. I provided an outline references with a bibliography with references for further discussion and you offered nothing but insults.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I realize that you have a theory that the Hebrews came from the Indus Valley, and that makes sense to you,, but I and academic sources go by the archeological, historical and genetic evidence that overwhelmingly documents the origin of the Hebrews as the Levant region.. The genetic evidence of the history of the Hebrews is irrefutable evidence for the origin of the Hebrews

Your view is only supported by at best a personal vague a anecdotal argument without a basis in fact. What "makes sense to you" does not carry any academic weight in this dialogue, I have responded in the past point b point with archeological, historical, and scientific evidence to refute your argument.

We are talking to each other. I do not recall you having responded point by point with archaeological, historical, and scientific evidence to refute my argument. And I can see that you are not convinced by my arguments. So, the way forward has to be to take one point and debate it until we resolve it. I would start with the river becoming red or blood. The event was due to the shifting of the Hakra River from west to east, which led the Hakra to become a series of stagnant pools. And this is what is meant by the river becoming daman. I would say that please respond to this point and then we can take it forward.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

To add neither of us are experts. ...

True.

And with that in mind, there is an interesting 43-chapter collection edited by Thomas E. Levy, Thomas Schneider, and William H.C. Propp:

Israel's Exodus in Transdisciplinary Perspective
Text, Archaeology, Culture, and Geoscience​

If you get it from your library, you'll find much supportive information, and you might also find Chapter 42 (The Emergence of Israel in Retrospective) worth reviewing. The author summarizes four current ethnogenesis models:

1. The Conquest Model:​
2. The Pastoral Sedentarization Model:​
3. The Social Revolt Model:​
4. The Dissolution/Digression Model:​

Model #2 gets much of the chapter's focus, with the author writing;

The pastoral sedentarization model exists in two main variants. The first one, also known as the immigration or infiltration model, is identified with A. Alt (1989), M. Noth (1960), M. Weippert (1971), and others. ... A second variant of the sedentarization model advocated by Israel Finkelstein (1996) is that native pastoralists already present in the western highlands settled down, established villages, and became the nucleus of biblical Israel.​

I found the following to be worth noting.

With regards to the immigration or infiltration model [i.e., 2a], he writes:

As with the conquest model, this theory also shares a correspondence with the biblical narrative. which alludes to a nomadic past for Israel's progenitors. While such stories sound suspiciously like the foundation myths of other peoples (Dever 2003: 51), it is hard to ignore claims of a nonindigenous past (Amos 9:7), or to dismiss the traditions that associate Israel's earliest ancestors with the Arameans (Gen 24:10; 25:20; 31:20-21; Deut 26:5; Josh 24:2-4), especially since Hebrew shares more linguistic features in common with Aramaic and Moabite than it does with Phoenician (Rainey 2008).​

He also notes:

A more recent development of the sedentarization hypothesis equates Israel with the Shasu, a pastoral group that inhabited southern Transjordan and parts of Cisjordan as well. (Giveon 1971; Weippert 1979; Redford 1992; Rainey 2001). ...​

​

Such a scenario is not unreasonable. The Shasu are no longer mentioned in texts after the end of the Late Bronze Age, suggesting that they assimilated into the general population during Iron Age I, whether in Transjordan, Cisjordan, or both.​

And he adds the following footnote ...

[10] Texts of Seti I and Papyrus Anastasi I indicate that those parts of Cisjordan inhabited by Shasu during the thirteenth century BC are the dame areas known to be Patriarchal places of tradition: Shechem, Bethel, Gerar, and Beersheba (Rainet, pers. comm.).​

and ...

It is also notable in this regard that out of 502 place names in the Hebrew Bible, none of them are Yahwistic. Toponyms are quite helpful because they help us identify the various dieties venerated in Canaan. ... It may be that Yahweh was not indigenous to the land of Canaan.​

Finally, with regards to the dissolution model, the author emphasized the impact of climate change:

The Libyans and Sea Peoples must have has a compelling reason to travel some 1,200 km (744 mi) to the Egyptian delta. ... New data-rich studies demonstrate that climate change helped set the stage for this large-scale movement of peoples in search of food and suitable areas to colonize, contributing to the weakening of the Egyptian empire and to the demise of the Late Bronze Age.​

noting ...

[14] Recent studies by Kaniewski et. al. (2023) for Cyprus, and Langgut et.al. (2013) for Israel, emphasize the role of climate in the collapse of Late Bronze Age civilization. The result of the latter study were brought up during the conference by Israel Finkelstein. It seems that severe cold in the north destroyed crops and led to reduceded precipitation in the steppe-lands to the east, damaging agricultural output and leading to droughts and famine. This climatic crisis, which occurred between 1250-1100 BC, prompted large groups of people to start moving further south in search of food.​

And all of this is from a single chapter out of 43.

FWIW, my takeaway is this: Israel's ethnogenesis is first and foremost multivalent and complicated, and simplistic pronouncements tend to border on historicide.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In the above post I quote an author noting ...

With regards to the immigration or infiltration model [i.e., 2a], he writes:

As with the conquest model, this theory also shares a correspondence with the biblical narrative. which alludes to a nomadic past for Israel's progenitors. While such stories sound suspiciously like the foundation myths of other peoples (Dever 2003: 51), it is hard to ignore claims of a nonindigenous past (Amos 9:7), or to dismiss the traditions that associate Israel's earliest ancestors with the Arameans (Gen 24:10; 25:20; 31:20-21; Deut 26:5; Josh 24:2-4), especially since Hebrew shares more linguistic features in common with Aramaic and Moabite than it does with Phoenician (Rainey 2008).

The reference to Rainey reminded me of the following article I downloaded some time back:

Whence Came the Israelites and Their Language by Anson F, Rainey
Israel Exploration Journal, 2007, Vol. 57, No. 1 (2007), pp. 41-64​

On page 52 of this wide-ranging (and heavily polemical) piece he writes:

During the past several years, my study of North-west Semitic languages, especially more recent discoveries in the late twentieth century, has led me to the conclusion that ancient Hebrew has more affinities with Aramaic and Moabite than with Phoenician (the real Canaanite of the Iron Age). This can have profound significance for the origin of the Iron I settlers.​

The reasoning and evidence that follows is far too technical for me. I'm happy to let others decode comments like: "Another major isogloss between Hebrew, Moabite and Aramaic is the syntagma of the narrative preterit." Still, the point seems reasonably clear; the evolution of Hebrew points east, not west.

The article concludes:

The latest archaeological research indicates that there is no reason to doubt the principal assumption of the biblical tradition that the ancient Israelites migrated as pastoralists from Transjordan to Cisjordan. However, this is not proof that the epic account in the Book of Joshua is literal history. Israel was evidently one group among many Shasu who were moving out of the steppe lands to find their livelihood. Nor does this constitute proof that the Israel (that was probably encountered in Transjordan) of Merneptah's inscription is already a 12-tribe league. For example, the tribes who settled in the heights of Upper Galilee may very well have come from the Syrian Desert or from Hauran. Some 'tribes' (socio-ethnic groups) may have arrived much earlier, e.g. Asher, which may possibly be mentioned in 19th-Dynasty inscriptions, and as evidently absorbed by the coastal Phoenicians as field hands (Judg. 1:32), and Issachar (Gen. 49:14) may have found a similar role in the Jezreel Valley. Nevertheless, the case for a Transjordanian pastoralist origin for the bulk of the clans in the eastern Jordan Valley, the Beth Shean Valley and the central hill country is very strong.​

He then writes:

In that regard, one final observation is in order. Throughout the past 30 years, biblical scholars and archaeologists have adduced various 'models' taken from a reading of professional anthropological literature. Not one of the 'models' adduced thus far have contributed anything of substance to the correct under standing of the Early Iron Age settlers of the twelfth century BCE or their development into a territorial state in the tenth century BCE. By contrast, the living model of the nineteenth-century bedouin has helped to put helped to put the ancient processes into a realistic cultural and geographical matrix.​

It brings to mind another interesting book: Bedouin Culture in the Bible by Clinton Bailey.

 

[shunyadragon]

We are talking to each other. I do not recall you having responded point by point with archaeological, historical, and scientific evidence to refute my argument.

I did and you did not respond,

And I can see that you are not convinced by my arguments. So, the way forward has to be to take one point and debate it until we resolve it. I would start with the river becoming red or blood. The event was due to the shifting of the Hakra River from west to east, which led the Hakra to become a series of stagnant pools. And this is what is meant by the river becoming daman. I would say that please respond to this point and then we can take it forward.

I refuted your bogus argument about the red tide plague.

You failed totally to respond to fact of the genetic, historical and archeological evidence that Hebrews were a Canaanite tribe going back thousands of years with absolutely no relationship to the Indus Valley.

 

[shunyadragon]

True.

And with that in mind, there is an interesting 43-chapter collection edited by Thomas E. Levy, Thomas Schneider, and William H.C. Propp:

Israel's Exodus in Transdisciplinary Perspective
Text, Archaeology, Culture, and Geoscience​

If you get it from your library, you'll find much supportive information, and you might also find Chapter 42 (The Emergence of Israel in Retrospective) worth reviewing. The author summarizes four current ethnogenesis models:

1. The Conquest Model:​
2. The Pastoral Sedentarization Model:​
3. The Social Revolt Model:​
4. The Dissolution/Digression Model:​

Model #2 gets much of the chapter's focus, with the author writing;

The pastoral sedentarization model exists in two main variants. The first one, also known as the immigration or infiltration model, is identified with A. Alt (1989), M. Noth (1960), M. Weippert (1971), and others. ... A second variant of the sedentarization model advocated by Israel Finkelstein (1996) is that native pastoralists already present in the western highlands settled down, established villages, and became the nucleus of biblical Israel.​

I found the following to be worth noting.

With regards to the immigration or infiltration model [i.e., 2a], he writes:

As with the conquest model, this theory also shares a correspondence with the biblical narrative. which alludes to a nomadic past for Israel's progenitors. While such stories sound suspiciously like the foundation myths of other peoples (Dever 2003: 51), it is hard to ignore claims of a nonindigenous past (Amos 9:7), or to dismiss the traditions that associate Israel's earliest ancestors with the Arameans (Gen 24:10; 25:20; 31:20-21; Deut 26:5; Josh 24:2-4), especially since Hebrew shares more linguistic features in common with Aramaic and Moabite than it does with Phoenician (Rainey 2008).​

He also notes:

A more recent development of the sedentarization hypothesis equates Israel with the Shasu, a pastoral group that inhabited southern Transjordan and parts of Cisjordan as well. (Giveon 1971; Weippert 1979; Redford 1992; Rainey 2001). ...​

​

Such a scenario is not unreasonable. The Shasu are no longer mentioned in texts after the end of the Late Bronze Age, suggesting that they assimilated into the general population during Iron Age I, whether in Transjordan, Cisjordan, or both.​

And he adds the following footnote ...

[10] Texts of Seti I and Papyrus Anastasi I indicate that those parts of Cisjordan inhabited by Shasu during the thirteenth century BC are the dame areas known to be Patriarchal places of tradition: Shechem, Bethel, Gerar, and Beersheba (Rainet, pers. comm.).​

and ...

It is also notable in this regard that out of 502 place names in the Hebrew Bible, none of them are Yahwistic. Toponyms are quite helpful because they help us identify the various dieties venerated in Canaan. ... It may be that Yahweh was not indigenous to the land of Canaan.​

Finally, with regards to the dissolution model, the author emphasized the impact of climate change:

The Libyans and Sea Peoples must have has a compelling reason to travel some 1,200 km (744 mi) to the Egyptian delta. ... New data-rich studies demonstrate that climate change helped set the stage for this large-scale movement of peoples in search of food and suitable areas to colonize, contributing to the weakening of the Egyptian empire and to the demise of the Late Bronze Age.​

noting ...

[14] Recent studies by Kaniewski et. al. (2023) for Cyprus, and Langgut et.al. (2013) for Israel, emphasize the role of climate in the collapse of Late Bronze Age civilization. The result of the latter study were brought up during the conference by Israel Finkelstein. It seems that severe cold in the north destroyed crops and led to reduceded precipitation in the steppe-lands to the east, damaging agricultural output and leading to droughts and famine. This climatic crisis, which occurred between 1250-1100 BC, prompted large groups of people to start moving further south in search of food.​

And all of this is from a single chapter out of 43.

FWIW, my takeaway is this: Israel's ethnogenesis is first and foremost multivalent and complicated, and simplistic pronouncements tend to border on historicide.

OK a coherent post with much I disagree with instead of ranting abuse, because it is making and effort to justify a religious agenda I will respond specifically to many ot the points next.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

OK a coherent post with much I disagree with instead of ranting abuse, because it is making and effort to justify a religious agenda I will respond specifically to many ot the points next.

No thanks.

 

[Revoltingest]

OK a coherent post with much I disagree with instead of ranting abuse, because it is making and effort to justify a religious agenda I will respond specifically to many ot the points next.

What makes you so special, eh.
You get a coherent post.
All I get is flying spittle.
Good thing I just got my fall vaccinations.

 

[shunyadragon]

I will respond to the following:

Jayhawker Soule[/URL]]

During the past several years, my study of North-west Semitic languages, especially more recent discoveries in the late twentieth century, has led me to the conclusion that ancient Hebrew has more affinities with Aramaic and Moabite than with Phoenician (the real Canaanite of the Iron Age). This can have profound significance for the origin of the Iron I settlers.

The reasoning and evidence that follows is far too technical for me. I'm happy to let others decode comments like: "Another major isogloss between Hebrew, Moabite and Aramaic is the syntagma of the narrative preterit." Still, the point seems reasonably clear; the evolution of Hebrew points east, not west.

I believe this is a biased interpretation of the evidence. I do not believe it points East or West it simply point to the regional evolution of written Hebrew from Canaanite/Phoenician within the Levant I do not believe you can make the above conclusion based on similarities, The proto-Hebrew writing we have is distinctly Canaanite, and the present evidence is the Hebrews were a Canaanite tribe with Canaanite culture and religion. Yes there are similarities with Moabite, but the Moabite was also a Canaanite tribe. What one concludes which written text is closer to one or another test the evolution of text within a region. Yes, there are similarities between early Hebrew and Aramaic, but that is simply due to regional association as Hebrew text evolved, and not origins, though the Aramaic script is distinctly different than proto-Hebrew/Phoenician.

https://study.com/academy/lesson/aramaic-language-origin-

\alphabet.html#:~:text=The%20Aramaic%20language%20likely%20developed,today%20Aramaic%20is%20nearly%20extinct.
The Aramaic language likely developed some time in the 11th century B.C.E. among a group of people known as Aramaeans, who resided in the regions known today as Syria, Israel and Palestine. It was then adopted by the Assyrian Empire which, at its largest, spanned across the Middle East and into Egypt.

 

[shunyadragon]

What makes you so special, eh.
You get a coherent post.
All I get is flying spittle.
Good thing I just got my fall vaccinations.

I responded with specific objections and will follow more. Considering what I call religious bias is a legitimate objection and not necessarily offensive as his toxic post #11.

 

[Revoltingest]

I responded with specific objections and will follow more. Considering what I call religious bias is a legitimate objection and not necessarily offensive as his toxic post #11.

Still, it's rare for some posters to approach a
difference of opinion with civility & reason.
Instead, they'd rather ignore the issue, &
make a personal attack. Such immaturity.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Considering what I call religious bias ...

The only bias demonstrated so far is yours. It is juvenile and ugly to denigrate highly regarded scholars about whom you know nothing, especially given that you've proven incapable of identifying a single book that you've actually read. Such antics are simply not worth my time or respect ...

 

[River Sea]

It brings to mind another interesting book: Bedouin Culture in the Bible by Clinton Bailey.

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala I showed your book I read at the bottom of this post. But for now have you ever heard of the Bedouin tribe?

The Bedouin put blood from a goat on the foreheads.

I'll show the screenshot here and below the video:
Bedouin putting goat blood on the forehead.

About video description further down this post.
Do Jews owe their relationship with the God of the Bible to the Bedouin populating Israel's Negev? That's the theory of Israel's foremost expert on the nomadic people of the Negev, an American Israeli who has spent the last four decades living among the Bedouin and researching them. Clinton Bailey posits that Moses, who fled Egypt into the ancestors of the Bedouin, adopted their way of life and their deity as his own before leading the Jews to freedom.

I'm listening to this video, and I'm sad that the Bedouins were circumcised; I'm not sure how much influenced Ancient Egyptian culture is or why they do that; however, in the video, Clinton Bailey is with the Bedouin and learns how they'd lived in the desert.

Clinton Bailey in this video didn't talk about ancient India; however, how far did the Bedouins travel to survive as they were nomads, or what if people from ancient India ever merge in with the Bedouin? Keep in mind Clinton Bailey didn't mention ancient India in this video. I'm just asking you, @Bharat Jhunjhunwala your thoughts about the Bedouins and your thoughts about Ancient India as well.

Clinton Bailey talks in this video: and @Bharat Jhunjhunwala Have you ever heard of Bedouin?

The Bedouin know how to live in the desert, and Clinton Bailey spent time with the Bedouins.

One can see Clinton Bailey in this video talking about the Bedouin. They didn't do agriculture; instead, they raised goats and sheep.

The Bedouin and the Hebrew Bible (Clinton Bailey)

screenshot from video showing the Bedouin in the desert., and they moved from place to place

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala they put the blood from goat on the forehead.

Here's the book I read from @Bharat Jhunjhunwala

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

I did and you did not respond,

I refuted your bogus argument about the red tide plague.

You failed totally to respond to fact of the genetic, historical and archeological evidence that Hebrews were a Canaanite tribe going back thousands of years with absolutely no relationship to the Indus Valley.

I think we can try to start once again. On the red tide plague, my take is that a river called Hakra flowed through West India. That river changed its course. It started flowing east. The western stream became a series of ponds with stagnant water, and the word for red in the Hebrew Bible is daman, whose origin is ‘dam’ means stoppage of flow. So, the river becoming blood or red is only talking about the river becoming stagnant. And I find no such parallel in Egypt. I request that let us start our conversation once again, and let us stick to this one point first, and we will take another point later. Thank you

 

[shunyadragon]

I think we can try to start once again. On the red tide plague, my take is that a river called Hakra flowed through West India. That river changed its course. It started flowing east. The western stream became a series of ponds with stagnant water, and the word for red in the Hebrew Bible is daman, whose origin is ‘dam’ means stoppage of flow. So, the river becoming blood or red is only talking about the river becoming stagnant. And I find no such parallel in Egypt. I request that let us start our conversation once again, and let us stick to this one point first, and we will take another point later. Thank you

Start over as many times as you like it does not help your strong cultural, religious and ethnic bias to justify a scenario that simply does not fit the overwhelming evidence of an Egyptian Exodus,,

The red tide is well explained as far as the plague in Egypt.

The problem remains the elephant in the room is the genetic evidence which eliminates any Exodus from the Indus Valley.

The archeological, and historical documents the close regional relationship between the Hebrews as a Canaanite tribe in a history thousands of years old in the Levant in relationship to the Aramaic tribes, Egypt and other cultures and tribes in the region. Absolutely no such evidence of this type of relationship exists of any relationship with the Indus Valley.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Start over as many times as you like it does not help your strong cultural, religious and ethnic bias to justify a scenario that simply does not fit the overwhelming evidence of an Egyptian Exodus,,

The red tide is well explained as far as the plague in Egypt.

The problem remains the elephant in the room is the genetic evidence which eliminates any Exodus from the Indus Valley.

The archeological, and historical documents the close regional relationship between the Hebrews as a Canaanite tribe in a history thousands of years old in the Levant in relationship to the Aramaic tribes, Egypt and other cultures and tribes in the region. Absolutely no such evidence of this type of relationship exists of any relationship with the Indus Valley.

I am giving below my response to the Genetics matter.
Genetic Connection of Jews with India
Posted onAugust 24, 2024 ByBharat JhunjhunwalaNo Commentson Genetic Connection of Jews with India
Moses led the Biblical Exodus from India to Israel, but the question arises whether there is any genetic proof that Indian people have any connection to the Israelite people.

According to the traditional location of the Exodus, it is believed that they went from Egypt to Israel, but we say that they went from India to Israel. The special thing is that both Egypt and India are not named in the Bible. In the Biblical Exodus story, some places are named, like Moses started the Exodus from a place called “Mitsrayim” or started from “Rameses”. But there is no mention anywhere in the Bible about where Mitsrayim and Rameses were located.

The story is that around 1400 BCE, Moses led the Exodus from India to Israel. Solomon built the first temple there around the 10th century BCE. In 586 BCE, Assyrian kings destroyed that temple and took the Jews captive to Babylon. The Jews stayed in Babylon for about 60 years. Then there was a king named Cyrus who allowed them to return to Jerusalem. It appears that some Jews did not go back to Israel. Some settled in Isfahan in Iran and some returned to India.

So, there were two migrations—the first migration from India to Israel, and the second migration involved traveling first from Israel to Babylon and then from Babylon to India. We have to understand these two migrations together.

Research by Abraham Benhur

Abraham Benhur is a researcher from Kerala. He studied the graves of Jews and found that their graves have a special shape called Dolmen. These Dolmens are found in a continuous chain from Israel to India, which indicates that this reverse migration happened.

Genetic connection

Now let’s see its connection with genetics. Our genes are very long. There is a special R2 gene. This R2 gene is found in about 10% of the people of India and about 1% is found in Ashkenazi Jews. About 80% of the Jews are Ashkenazi, and 20% are from Sephardi or other groups. We can say that if an R2 gene is found in 80% of the people, then it can be assumed in almost everyone. So, the question is how did the R2 gene reach 1% Ashkenazi?



In this picture, you can see that the concentration of the R1a gene parallel to the R2 gene is high in India, and as we move west, its concentration decreases. This indicates that the R2 gene found in Ashkenazi Jews may have originated in India.



Many studies suggest that the center of the R2 gene was in India. Sengupta said in a 2006 study that their origin is in the Asian subcontinent. Zhao said in a 2009 study that this R2 gene is found in different castes and religious groups in India, not in any particular class, but is found in almost all groups. Chennakrishnaiah found in a 2011 study that this R2 gene is found in Lingayat and Vokkaliga of Karnataka. Shinde studied an Indus Valley skeleton in a 2019 study, and he said that there is no indication of West- Asian origin in the R2 gene.

Study of the genes of Jews and non-Jews

Klyosov did a study in which the genes of 121 Jews and 1166 non-Jews were studied, and it was found that the genes of the Jews who were in Israel were superimposed on the genes of the local people, meaning there were two levels – one level of the old local genes and the other level of the Jews. This indicates that these people came from outside and were not local. Keep in mind that a story in the Bible tells that these people went from Canaan to Egypt and came back from Egypt. So, if these were people from Canaan and they came back, then there should have been a match in their genes, there should have been no layering. But because their genes are layered in two levels, it shows that they were not local and their roots were somewhere outside – whether in Egypt or India, but they were from outside.

Relationship of the genetic structure of Jews with Indians

In the same study it was told that the genetic structure of the Jews of India matches that of the Indian people, there is no layer in it. That is, the Jews who went from India to Israel in 1400 BCE and those who came back to India around 600 BCE, their genes were the same, and when they came back, there were no layers in their genes.

Now the question arises, what is the significance of 1% R2 among the Jews? If 10% of the Jews had the R2 gene, then in four generations it would be reduced to 1.2% genes. 10% to 5% in the first generation, 2.5% in the second, and 1.25% in the third. So, in four to five generations, only 1% of Jews will have this gene left. Now let us compare this to Exodus. The Exodus happened around 1500 BC, and today is 2000 AD, that is, 3500 years have passed. If we consider the time of one generation as 25 years, then 140 generations have passed during this period. If intermarriage happened in only four of these 140 generations, then the gene decreased from 10% to 1%. This is not an unexpected event, it is possible that for those who roamed outside for so many years, four of their generations may have intermarried and their R2 gene may have reduced to 1%.

Klyosov found that India has 10% R2 gene, Pakistan has 7-8%, and Tajikistan has 6%. After this, as we move towards the west, its percentage decreases. As we said earlier, this 1% gene must have left India and gone towards the West.

Klyosov studied the genes of 39 people. He estimated that the common ancestor from which those 39 people originated must have been around 6000 years ago. According to the Bible, the time of Adam is considered to be around 6000 years ago or 4000 BC. So this means that if we believe the story of the Bible, then Adam was born in India and 6000 years ago. All these 39 people must have originated from him.

Klyosov also says that out of these 37, 17 were Jews, their common ancestor was around 4000 years ago, i.e. around 2000 BC. I suggest that this person could be Ibrahim or Abraham because we believe that the descendants of Abraham went to the Western countries through Ishmael and Isaac. Therefore, the common ancestor of these 17 Jewish samples could be Ibrahim.

‘Six Marker’

Klyosov said that there are many markers in our DNA. There is a piece inside it which is called ‘Six Marker’, and he says that this gene of ‘Six Marker’ is found in almost all Indians and almost all Jews (14-12-23-10-10-14). This also indicates that this gene belongs to Indians which must have gone to the Jews of Israel.

Summary

A migration took place from India around 1400 years BC, in which these people went to Israel. From there these people came to Babylon in 600 BC and from there some came back to India. Given all these facts, it can be assumed that the people who left India carried the R2 gene, which is still found in 1% of Ashkenazi Jews. This establishes a genetic connection between India and Jews.

See English Video:

Spotify link: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bharat-jjj/episodes/Genetic-Connection-of-Jews-with-India–Genetic-Links-Between-Indian-Populations-and-Ashkenazi-Jews-e2ni6q7

References

Behar, Doron M., The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people, Nature 2010.
Benhur, Abraham, History, and Mystery of Megaliths & Jewish Lost Tribes, Soft Copy. URL Not available.
Chennakrishnaiah, Shilpa, Analysis of Y-Chromosome Diversity in Lingayat and Vokkaliga
Populations of Southern India, Florida International University, 2011.
Klyosov, Anatole A., Jews of Haplogroup R2 From Origin of the Jews via DNA Genealogy, February 2010.
Sahoo, Sanghamitra, A prehistory of Indian Y chromosomes: Evaluating demic diffusion scenarios, PNAS, January 24, 2006 vol. 103 no. 4 843–848.
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[RabbiO]

the word for red in the Hebrew Bible is daman, whose origin is ‘dam’ means stoppage of flow.

OK so you don’t know Hebrew. What other skill sets do you lack that others here might be naive enough to believe you have?