It is difficult to describe atheism - True ?

[justa_gurl]

"You should read David Hume's A Treatise of Human Nature: Being an Attempt to Introduce the Experimental Method of Reasoning into Moral Subjects. "

You are absolutely right, i should. Unfortunately, i haven't so i guess you'll just have to bare with me. I really appreciate your taking the time to reply and hope you'll continue to humor me though.

"You were not born with the innate idea of God. You had to have learned it somewhere. Most likely from your parents."

If we could take a child straight from a womb, deny it all external influences and without the use of language determine his exact thoughts and feelings regarding life and the cosmos, deciding whether that child is reflecting anything in those experiences one could term spiritual or religious, it would be a fascinating experiment indeed. But that can not be done making your premise itself that beginning "with an idea of God is impossible" somewhat impossible to prove.

I completely understand why you suggest that theism might stem from external social, environmental, psychological influences or even flaws in reasoning the believer might be unaware of. But i have to ask you, hypothetically speaking couldn't the same be said of atheism?

"The benefit of faith is indulgence. To believe in our hopes."

I tend to disagree with this as well. You can't step outside your door without faith that a meteor won't land on your head and crush you. Can you prove that won't happen? Are you aware that you have this faith in the cosmos? Well.. chances are no, but the point remains that in order to progress a certain amount of faith is required of you. (Especially in regards to that which we do nor or can not know)

"The question is about whether we begin with an established religious paradigm handed down to us from churches and parents and cultures, or if we begin with nothing and work our way towards establishing a world view predicated upon our own experience"

Everyone is guided by their own experiences, can we truly begin with nothing? Some just end up with different conclusions, gravitating toward or away from those - who having similar experiences - have related their thoughts on the human experience in all its complexities throughout history by means of religious texts and poetic language. By what they're guided is hard to say.

"Proof is simply the highest standard of judgment."

But what is proof? Experience? What experience, whose experience, which experiences? Behind every proof lies a subtle nod of humble agnosticism. You shouldn't underestimate the power of that damned gut instinct. Sometimes, just sometimes there's truth to be found that can't be proven.

"when a belief really matters, why would one not employ the highest standard of judgment?"

A belief is only a belief if the real answer can't be determined. It is a truth tucked away "waiting further insight", otherwise it'd just be fact and who has that regarding origins?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

*MOD POST*

Please remember that here in the Discuss Individual Religions forum, debate is not allowed. This forum is for learning about each religion/worldview and asking questions only. If there are topics in this thread which you would like to discuss or debate, please start a new thread in one of the discussion or debate forums. Posts which engage in debate will simply be deleted.

Thanks.

 

[justa_gurl]

I'm so sorry...My full apologies everyone.

I didn't even catch myself doing it. Have they got a patch for that?

 

[Valjean]

*#^@%+!! category restrictions! Just when the discussion starts to get interesting you find you're in the wrong forum to continue. :banghead3

 

[Ceridwen018]

*#^@%+!! category restrictions! Just when the discussion starts to get interesting you find you're in the wrong forum to continue.

"This sounds like a job for NEW THREAD MAN!!"

 

[greatcalgarian]

Sabio has posted many interesting questions, and many responders have provided very insightful answers. If Sabio is keen to learn more about atheism, just get onto the following web:
http://www.infidels.org/index.html:162:

And then at the top of the page, there is a google search for this web page, just type in the key words, and you will find all the answers on atheism you like to know:bounce , for example cosmology (where the moderator kept saying go to a new thread, go to a new thread), you get a whole string of articles:


Atheism, Theism and Big Bang Cosmology [size=-1]In fact, I will argue for the strong claim that big bang cosmology is ... The singularity theorems are the pan of big bang cosmology that support the claim ...
www.infidels.org/library/ modern/quentin_smith/cosmology.html - 73k - 8 Aug 2005 - Cached - Similar pages[/size]

Theological Misinterpretations of Current Physical Cosmology [size=-1]According to Isham, the Hartle & Hawking version of quantum cosmology lends itself to ... The steady-state cosmology now has few adherents among physical ...
www.infidels.org/library/ modern/adolf_grunbaum/theological.html - 76k - 7 Aug 2005 - Cached - Similar pages[/size]

Stephen Hawking's Cosmology and Theism [size=-1][Note: For a technical discussion of Hawking's quantum cosmology, ... The fact that classical theism is inconsistent with Hawking's cosmology does not ...
www.infidels.org/library/ modern/quentin_smith/hawking.html - 33k - Cached - Similar pages[/size]The Pseudo-Problem of Creation in Physical Cosmology [size=-1]Neither the big bang cosmogony nor the steady-state cosmology validates the traditional cosmological argument for divine creation.[/size] etc etc

I have hours of enjoyment going through articles in this web and the links provided. The web also provide religious link whenever debate is concern and is quite fair.

 

[greatcalgarian]

Further example on articles on Existence of God:


The Existence Of God [size=-1]The existence of a God is the first dogma of the Theophilanthropists. It is upon this subject that I solicit your attention; for though it has been often ...
www.infidels.org/library/historical/ thomas_paine/existence_of_god.html - 34k - Cached - Similar pages[/size]

Arguments for the Existence of God [size=-1]Arguments for the existence of a god. ... Ontological arguments conclude that God exists from premises derived by reason alone, and not observation of the ...
www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/arguments.html - 18k - Cached - Similar pages[/size]

Is a Sound Argument for the Nonexistence of a God Even Possible? [size=-1]Similarly, all of the theistic arguments for the existence of God assume negative ... At the same time, an Agnostic may hold that the existence of God, ...
www.infidels.org/library/ modern/jeff_lowder/ipnegep.html - 50k - 7 Aug 2005 - Cached - Similar pages[/size]The Fernandes-Martin Debate on the Existence of God [size=-1]Michael Martin's essays and debates concerning the existence of God.
www.infidels.org/library/ modern/michael_martin/fernandes-martin/ - 12k - Cached - Similar pages[/size]

and many more.......

This topic has been debated over and over........