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"It is not Paris we should pray for."

4consideration

*
Premium Member
Whatever positive response I may have had to the other expressions in the poem regarding concern for everyone, the first sentence (which is typically the most powerful, and often used as the title) put me off a lot.

"It is not Paris we should pray for."

I think it's cold. This event just happened. Feelings are raw.

It's about as cold as going to a funeral and saying, "Oh, well you shouldn't feel sad for your own loss, or the loss of those close to you...feel sad for everyone, because everyone loses loved ones at some point in their lives. Don't act like you're so special. If you were as compassionate as me, you'd be grieving for everyone, instead of your own little loss."
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
The message behind the poem is that while we do indeed need to pray for Paris--it also means that, more importantly, we need to understand why the world is in this violent state. No one in their right mind can justify the attacks, but the Paris attacks are a symptom of a much larger disease.
I believe the author is saying much more.

I believe the author is decrying a western world wherein Lebanon and Turkey go virtually unnoticed. engendering virtually no empathetic response, while Paris saturates our newsfeed and elicits endless expressions of sympathy and solidarity.

I believe the author is decrying

A world in which a bomb goes off
at a funeral in Baghdad
and not one person's status update says "Bagdad",
because not one white person died in that fire.

Pray for the world
that blames a refugee crisis for a terrorist attack.
That does not pause to differentiate between the attacker
and the person running from the very same thing you are.

A world where empathy is far too selective and xenophobia far too pervasive, and a world where all of this is deemed natural or simply dismissed.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I believe the author is saying much more.

I believe the author is decrying a western world wherein Lebanon and Turkey go virtually unnoticed. engendering virtually no empathetic response, while Paris saturates our newsfeed and elicits endless expressions of sympathy and solidarity.

I believe the author is decrying

A world in which a bomb goes off
at a funeral in Baghdad
and not one person's status update says "Bagdad",
because not one white person died in that fire.

Pray for the world
that blames a refugee crisis for a terrorist attack.
That does not pause to differentiate between the attacker
and the person running from the very same thing you are.

A world where empathy is far too selective and xenophobia far too pervasive, and a world where all of this is deemed natural or simply dismissed.
By coincidence, I know some people from Iraq, & even Baghdad (preferred spelling).
They're all white.
Race isn't the issue.
It's more about what feels closer to home.
This isn't to say their lives are less valuable (whatever that means).
But horrible things which are relatively common in faraway places won't get headlines here.
Accept it or not, one's attention cannot be everywhere.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
True its not really just about Paris. Is the goal to put a wedge between Muslims and non Muslims? No that isn't it. I don't see how the attacks would make any difference, because Muslims do not generally hang out with non-Muslims in Paris anyway. Are the attacks really just retaliatory attacks for France's involvement in the fighting in Syria? I guess they are really that simple. Man, I would have imagined some more complex and elegant reason, but apparently there isn't any.

Turkey has a secular military, but they are all Muslims. Almost everybody in Turkey is Muslim; so I also don't understand what the attack could have accomplished. Again it seems like an attempt at retaliation for Turkey's military involvement. It doesn't seem to incite any action that isn't already being taken.

Lebanon has groups that are fighting against Isis, so I can understand that attack. Again it seems pointless. It doesn't stop anything.

The attacks are tactically worthless. There's no advantage gained, and they haven't incited war. Is France doing anything different than what it was already doing? Nothing is changing.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
By coincidence, I know some people from Iraq, & even Baghdad (preferred spelling).
They're all white.

These definitions are rather arbitrary, but official US definitions of 'white' are different from that of the general public in this one. I don't think the majority of people would ever call Arabs 'white'?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
A world where empathy is far too selective and xenophobia far too pervasive, and a world where all of this is deemed natural or simply dismissed.

Well said. Selective empathy and xenophobia are the hallmarks of tribalism, which is perhaps somewhat instinctive in humans. But in humans, what is instinctive is not necessarily inevitable: Our biology is not our destiny. We can and should overcome tribalism.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
These definitions are rather arbitrary, but official US definitions of 'white' are different from that of the general public in this one. I don't think the majority of people would ever call Arabs 'white'?
It seems that most white people aren't white.
Perhaps "white people" should be changed to "non-Jewish non-Muslim light complexioned people most of whose ancestors originated in northern Europe".
 

Kirran

Premium Member
It seems that most white people aren't white.
Perhaps "white people" should be changed to "non-Jewish non-Muslim light complexioned people most of whose ancestors originated in northern Europe".

I wouldn't say it's that narrow. All people of European descent, sometimes including Jews. White Muslims, certainly. Bosniaks are mostly Muslim, and are white.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I don't think the message needs be to lessen or marginalise the atrocities in France. But to encourage us to hold on to our compassion for all people, even when stereotyping and scapegoating gets easier, and when emotions can get high.

Well said. I think you're right.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Anything that seems to be marginalizing the attacks in anyway or trying to make people feel guilty or narrow-minded for expressing concern, sympathy, etc. for the French...is quite lame to me, if not worse.

I can see how the poem might give the impression it's marginalizing the attacks in Paris, and/or the West's response to them, but I don't think it's actually doing that.

I think the poem is best read as a whole, rather than cherry pick lines from it. And when I read it in its entirety, I don't get the impression that it is saying it's necessarily narrow minded to express concern for the French, or that the attacks in Paris should in any way be marginalized.

It's my impression the poem is asking us to, among other things, step back and take a look at the tribalism and other issues that are causing "the world to fall apart." Or, at least that's in partr how I see it.

Of course, if you could completely and thoroughly unpack a poem, then it's possible the poem wasn't much of a poem to begin with. One point of much poetry is to state things that cannot be adequately, or perhaps as efficiently, communicated in prose.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I wouldn't say it's that narrow. All people of European descent, sometimes including Jews. White Muslims, certainly. Bosniaks are mostly Muslim, and are white.
My suggestion was just a facetious comment on the evolving definition of "race".
I still prefer a broader one which includes anyone who looks "white".
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I believe the author is saying much more.

I believe the author is decrying a western world wherein Lebanon and Turkey go virtually unnoticed. engendering virtually no empathetic response, while Paris saturates our newsfeed and elicits endless expressions of sympathy and solidarity.

I believe the author is decrying

A world in which a bomb goes off
at a funeral in Baghdad
and not one person's status update says "Bagdad",
because not one white person died in that fire.

Pray for the world
that blames a refugee crisis for a terrorist attack.
That does not pause to differentiate between the attacker
and the person running from the very same thing you are.

A world where empathy is far too selective and xenophobia far too pervasive, and a world where all of this is deemed natural or simply dismissed.

Touché, my friend. We could discuss this over some delicious kababs. ;)
 
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