It seems to me that some Christians on here do not understand Atheists

[Revoltingest]

The reverse is also true. Many atheists do not understand Christians, and many will go out of their way to belittle them, try and prove that their religion is false, and verbally assault anyone that identifies as a Christian.

To understand them makes it even easier to belittle them & prove their religion false.
But this requires some study (both Bible & science), which is too much work for me.

 

[LuisDantas]

I have seen it so...

I never even heard of it. Where did it happen?

 

[Neo Deist]

That begs the question of who designed the universe for what purpose?

Why does there have to be a purpose for human understanding? For all we know, the universe is a giant anthill or social experiment.

Yes, there will always be conflict as long as there are two people who can interact with each other. I use words and ideas to fight this conflict. Should I not have the freedom to do that?

You are entitled to your ideas and opinions. That does not mean you are entitled to force your ideas and opinions on others (not saying you do). Live and let live.

 

[JustWondering]

Why does there have to be a purpose for human understanding? For all we know, the universe is a giant anthill or social experiment.

YOU said YOU see purpose. What purpose do YOU see?

You are entitled to your ideas and opinions. That does not mean you are entitled to force your ideas and opinions on others (not saying you do). Live and let live.

There are limits to what should be attributed to anything. The world is not black and white. If I had the power to stop snake handlers from playing with poisonous snakes, make religious people give modern medical treatment to their kids even if they didn't believe in it and keep idiots from passing legislature that is proposed only because of their religious beliefs I would. I would act rationally for the good of people, not irrationally to appease the supposed will of an invisible entity that only speaks to a chosen one or few, and cannot be questioned or held to account for their demands.

 

[Neo Deist]

YOU said YOU see purpose. What purpose do YOU see?

Exploration and acquisition of knowledge.

 

[Neo Deist]

There are limits to what should be attributed to anything. The world is not black and white. If I had the power to stop snake handlers from playing with poisonous snakes, make religious people give modern medical treatment to their kids even if they didn't believe in it and keep idiots from passing legislature that is proposed only because of their religious beliefs I would. I would act rationally for the good of people, not irrationally to appease the supposed will of an invisible entity that only speaks to a chosen one or few, and cannot be questioned or held to account for their demands.

I agree.

Welcome to deism!

 

[Milton Platt]

The reverse is also true. Many atheists do not understand Christians, and many will go out of their way to belittle them, try and prove that their religion is false, and verbally assault anyone that identifies as a Christian.

Yes, I have seen personal attacks from both sides of the divide. But some Christians seem to invite it, almost. (not justifying bad behavior here) I have never had an atheist knock on my door in hopes of "saving" me from some unseen boogie man. I have never had an atheist scream at me how i am going to burn in hell or try to shove religious tracts in my face while I was walking down the street minding my own business. I can say that I have been guilty of letting emotions override logic sometimes. It happens.

On the other hand, if Christians never tried to proselytize, there would not be so much push-back. Also, trying to get religious concepts taught in public science classes causes some of the hostility they receive.

Having said all of that, I would like to see discourse directed toward the subject matter and not directed as personal denigration of each other.

As to your last sentence, please enlighten us as to what it is that atheists misunderstand about Christians. Many of them, perhaps most of them, have been Christians or the follower of some other god before they came to the conclusion that the evidence just did not support the belief. So what are they missing?

 

[Desert Snake]

It seems to me that some Christians, being submerged in a social group that is all about Jesus, assume that Atheists don't believe as they do because one of the following:

1. They are bad people who want to sin and so screw god and his rules.
2. Had something bad happen to them or a loved one and blame god for it.
3. Haven't been exposed to the gospel yet so you need to tell them about it and "save" them.

Really? That isn't my opinion of atheists. If atheists were just anti-deity, then they wouldn't just focus on Christians
That might be more of a satanist convert stereotype
haha no, many atheists are ex-Christians, atheists usually are the ones trying to tell me what the gospel 'actually means' etc, not the other way around

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The problem with this argument is that Atheism does not hold up fantasies as reality and use said fantasies to invoke obedience from its followers.

Think of it this way. No sarcasm in this. Try to read the Bible then go out and yell at someone else's child, that that child will go to hell because that is what you read.

Who should that parent address, you (and adult, mind you) or the Bible?

Even more so, if that parent were to sue and the Bible was the influence for that action, do you think taking the Bible out of the picture will change that you are the one that yelled at the child, and you are the one that receives the consequences, and you not the Bible and Zues and not Vishnu is the one who may have to make it up to the child you hurt?

The problem is with the people. If we addressed ourselves and our own bias and think about others without our religious and moral views getting involved in someone else's freedom (this goes for non-religious too not just believers) we could probably get alone better. In other words, in America, if we can get our politics straight then that's something.

I never said all, I said some.

(Drop the book. Not all christians want to convert and stereotypes of fundamentalist.)

I know. I said that. Not all Christians want to convert and are stereotypical fundamentalist. But many people many people not talking about you do put Christians in one shoe box. I've been very very blessed to go into the Catholic Church as an adult, experience the full sacraments of Christ, experience the history of the Church, read the full Bible, and walked out without no one in the Church telling me I will go to hell, I did anything wrong, or so have you. If anything, they showered me with kindness so much that I finally got paid on my rent.

So, in that respects, it's not the religion. If it were the religion, everyone in Christianity would experience the same thing. We don't.

Which is a shame. I have no interest in seeing the world going back to being ruled by theocracies that despise reason and free speech because it threatens their power.

Sounds like people and politics. Take out religion. Religion isn't politics.

Religion's continued existence is a symptom of Humanities short sightedness, greed, willful ignorance, and inability to get along. If our species is to have a good future or possibly any future I believe we need to confront our flaws and problems with a rational mind in reality and leave all the supernatural mumbo jumbo for entertainment in books, movies, and television where it belongs. Saying religion is harmless when it quite obviously warps peoples sense of reality and hinders critical thinking is willful ignorance.

You have to be more specific. In my religion, I've turned from greed, ignorance, and shortsightedness. Now that I have a point of reference, I know where to go in my faith.

Same as a Pagan who identifies with a religion and anyone else who does. Religion does nothing in and of itself.

It's like blaming the knife for cutting you when some of us use knifes to spread butter, some for cutting cake, others, yes murder, and others self-injury.

How can you judge if religion is poor to humanity's well being? By whose definition of religion are you going by? And why would that definition apply to everyone who identifies has having a religion?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The reverse is also true. Many atheists do not understand Christians, and many will go out of their way to belittle them, try and prove that their religion is false, and verbally assault anyone that identifies as a Christian.

Where?

 

[LuisDantas]

Really? That isn't my opinion of atheists. If atheists were just anti-deity, then they wouldn't just focus on Christians

When push comes to shove, not too many people who are not Christians, Muslims or Bahais have much of an issue with atheism.

 

[Brickjectivity]

It seems to me that some Christians, being submerged in a social group that is all about Jesus, assume that Atheists don't believe as they do because one of the following:

1. They are bad people who want to sin and so screw god and his rules.
2. Had something bad happen to them or a loved one and blame god for it.
3. Haven't been exposed to the gospel yet so you need to tell them about it and "save" them.

Some Christians, yes but mostly #3; and people have different personalities and psychological profiles. I would say that as someone reared in a very sheltered environment and taught that everyone not 'Saved' would spend eternity in hell that I was highly-highly-highly concerned about how my actions would affect the eternal afterlife of other people. As a deeply empathic, rational and loved person this was very difficult. Fortunately I was too timid to energetically annoy other people.

About #1 I don't think that is so common but probably happens depending upon personality and a person's life experiences. I was treated well by my parents, by family and strangers. Also #2 seems rare to me. I don't think people assume this very often. I think #3 is fairly common.

There is at least one other possibility though:

4. They find the claims/stories of Christianity unconvincing and not rooted in reality.

This heavily depends upon personality. You also have to take into account that there are stupid people and smart people. There are both kinds in all groups. The biggest factor for #4 is that many people believe that Satan has somewhat altererd or curved the thinking of unbelievers, pulling a curtain over their eyes.

No anger or sin required, just reason and evidence (or lack thereof). Your religion is not the center of the universe. People do not need deep emotional reasons to disbelieve in Christianity.

While this is probably true, it is probably not something people can hear. There are things you probably can't hear that are nevertheless true. Its like that. Sometimes the best way forward is to go sideways or start from a different angle. Have you ever tried telling a sleepwalker that they are asleep or telling an untalented actor that they need to get a regular job? You can't do it. Just go back to bed and talk to the sleepwalker in the morning. Tell that bad actor to break a leg.

I have some questions for Christians. Do you hate Hinduism? Can you even say anything good about Hinduism? How did you come to your realization that Hinduism is not the one true religion?

I'm not picking on Hinduism by the way, it's just the first major non-Abrahamic religion that sprang to mind that has beliefs that contradict those of Christianity.

The thing that I really hate about Hinduism is that I can't pronounce anything properly, and none of the spellings make sense to me. Plus its not a religion. Its actually a whole forest of religions, each one splendorous with its own traditions and knick-knacks. Ergo how can it possibly be God reaching out to me when it doesn't even transliterate into English?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The thing that I really hate about Hinduism is that I can't pronounce anything properly, and none of the spellings make sense to me. Plus its not a religion. Its actually a whole forest of religions, each one splendorous with its own traditions and knick-knacks. Ergo how can it possibly be God reaching out to me when it doesn't even transliterate into English?

Maybe the gods are reaching out to you but you're not open to receive it? Or, maybe you're not praying hard enough? The right way? Maybe because the gods speak in perfect English and us Americans have a splish splash of languages going on that if we were to hear English we'd not recognize it being part of our own language.

It doesn't sound like that the Hindu (and Pagan and... ) gods aren't speaking to you, it's that you may be listening to so many things at one time like everyday life but our ears tone out half the sounds and our brains even more before we choose to figure who we want to listen to... and if that person has a name like Venkatanarasimharajuvaripeta .... of course, we'd slip by that.

Does not mean the deity doesn't exist. Just means we have, how did my doc say, selective listening skills.

 

[JustWondering]

I agree.

Welcome to deism!

I have to admit, I don't know much about deism.

 

[JustWondering]

Think of it this way. No sarcasm in this. Try to read the Bible then go out and yell at someone else's child, that that child will go to hell because that is what you read.

Who should that parent address, you (and adult, mind you) or the Bible?

Even more so, if that parent were to sue and the Bible was the influence for that action, do you think taking the Bible out of the picture will change that you are the one that yelled at the child, and you are the one that receives the consequences, and you not the Bible and Zues and not Vishnu is the one who may have to make it up to the child you hurt?

The problem is with the people. If we addressed ourselves and our own bias and think about others without our religious and moral views getting involved in someone else's freedom (this goes for non-religious too not just believers) we could probably get alone better. In other words, in America, if we can get our politics straight then that's something.

I said religion is a symptom of common human flaws not the cause. However, religion is part of many people's worldview. Yet, many theists never truly reflect upon or study their religion. Most people are just sheeple willing to go with the flow. I would like for the masses to wake up and actually question the things the authority figures in their lives tell them and think for themselves. Rational thought will eradicate superstitious belief systems eventually.

I know. I said that. Not all Christians want to convert and are stereotypical fundamentalist. But many people many people not talking about you do put Christians in one shoe box. I've been very very blessed to go into the Catholic Church as an adult, experience the full sacraments of Christ, experience the history of the Church, read the full Bible, and walked out without no one in the Church telling me I will go to hell, I did anything wrong, or so have you. If anything, they showered me with kindness so much that I finally got paid on my rent.

So, in that respects, it's not the religion. If it were the religion, everyone in Christianity would experience the same thing. We don't.

Results may vary, I get that. However like I've said before, religion instills a mindset/worldview that is not rooted in reality and hinders rational thought. Some of the nicest people I've ever met are JW's yet they'll deny a blood transfusion and die because their invisible entity said so. As some theists would say "I hate the sin not the sinner" I would say "I hate theology not the theist".

Sounds like people and politics. Take out religion. Religion isn't politics.

I would love religion to stay out of politics. Wouldn't it be awesome if religious politicians would stop trying to pass legislature based solely on their religious beliefs?

How can you judge if religion is poor to humanity's well being? By whose definition of religion are you going by? And why would that definition apply to everyone who identifies has having a religion?

Religion has been around since before recorded history. It hasn't solved any of humanities greatest problems and concerns in that time. It's caused some problems but what good has religion really done for humanity? My argument is that our concerns will be better addressed by staying calm and using reason then giving in to emotion and superstition.

 

[JustWondering]

Ergo how can it possibly be God reaching out to me when it doesn't even transliterate into English?

Why do you assume a god exists and also assume it is reaching out to anyone?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I said religion is a symptom of common human flaws not the cause. However, religion is part of many people's worldview. Yet, many theists never truly reflect upon or study their religion. Most people are just sheeple willing to go with the flow. I would like for the masses to wake up and actually question the things the authority figures in their lives tell them and think for themselves. Rational thought will eradicate superstitious belief systems eventually.

I understand the sentiment with not questioning our beliefs. When "Religion" pops up, the word doesn't mean the same for each person. To someone across the world you could be insulting their intermediate family, their relationship with the environment, and the gods they follow not obey. I mean, most of religious criticisms on RF doesn't apply to my religion because the OP already sets up an invisible abrahamic definition of religion where millions of people do not relate to-and in those millions are also Christians.

As for the supstitition, if it doesn't exist, it can't do any harm. It's like being bothered by an invisible knat and someone coming to you to smack that same knat off your arm. Then you tell them, "there's nothing there." They disagree.

However, the believer is sane in his or her own belief. As long as it's not being abused. The person complaining about being smacked years years years later I sometimes wonder if the trauma was so harsh on him that he, for a split second too, believed there was a knat on his arm.

I love analogies.

I see the motive or objective of challenging people's religions. I just don't see how it helps to challenge the people as if challenging them will make their whole foundation/their life/their religion just disappear.

Results may vary, I get that. However like I've said before, religion instills a mindset/worldview that is not rooted in reality and hinders rational thought. Some of the nicest people I've ever met are JW's yet they'll deny a blood transfusion and die because their invisible entity said so. As some theists would say "I hate the sin not the sinner" I would say "I hate theology not the theist".

I don't think you're being to clear here. How do you define reality?​

If you're talking about morals and ethics, that varies by society. It's not a "reality" concern because in morals and ethics, reality is defined by the environment and people within it.

Scientific reality? As in what we experience with our five senses?​

That doesn't make sense either since we are putting ourselves at the center of the universe "we know everything" position and we do not know. So, religion can't be opposed to scientific reality since we don't know much about life to begin with in the what 150 years (as so last I read) we live on this planet.

The latter part, it sounds like you're talking about Christianity or "religions of abraham" not religions in general.

But think about it, though. It may not sound morally rational according to our standards, but if you take out the JW and religion out, we are born, we live, we suffer, we pass away, it is logical. We are born, we live, we suffer, and we die. So if a JW parents feel they have the right to give their child to god rather than live on this earth for a small period of time knowing they would die, how can that not be logical from the JW point of view? If no deity existed, and they gave the blood transfusion, does it mean their child lives a better life on earth than the one they envisioned in the afterlife? I don't promote not giving medical treatment to people in general when needed, and I do understand the logic behind some things. It doesn't mean it's wrong or it's diluted thinking (my words). People differ in morals but we all are born, live, suffer, and pass away.

By whose authority should we follow? Logically why would a doctor's point of view be better than an all-powerful, all-knowing, and loving deity's point of view?​

I would love religion to stay out of politics. Wouldn't it be awesome if religious politicians would stop trying to pass legislature based solely on their religious beliefs?

Regardless their relations, it's oil and water. One isn't the other. At least not in America.

Religion has been around since before recorded history. It hasn't solved any of humanities greatest problems and concerns in that time. It's caused some problems but what good has religion really done for humanity? My argument is that our concerns will be better addressed by staying calm and using reason then giving in to emotion and superstition.

What good has "people who follow said religions" have really done for humanity by the religions they follow? (Makes more sense, since religion doesn't do anything itself).

Think about it, though. If you took up, say Christianity, would you feel obligated to treat people unfair and unkind just because other people who follow christ has done the same?​

 

[Brickjectivity]

Why do you assume a god exists and also assume it is reaching out to anyone?

You asked if I hated Hinduism. I didn't and don't. Whether I assume a god exists is off topic, and whether I assume its reaching out to anyone is off topic. I said that Hinduism had lots of words that I couldn't spell properly. That was my objection.

 

[Thief]

It seems to me that some Christians, being submerged in a social group that is all about Jesus, assume that Atheists don't believe as they do because one of the following:

1. They are bad people who want to sin and so screw god and his rules.
2. Had something bad happen to them or a loved one and blame god for it.
3. Haven't been exposed to the gospel yet so you need to tell them about it and "save" them.

There is at least one other possibility though:

4. They find the claims/stories of Christianity unconvincing and not rooted in reality.

No anger or sin required, just reason and evidence (or lack thereof). Your religion is not the center of the universe. People do not need deep emotional reasons to disbelieve in Christianity.

I have some questions for Christians. Do you hate Hinduism? Can you even say anything good about Hinduism? How did you come to your realization that Hinduism is not the one true religion?

I'm not picking on Hinduism by the way, it's just the first major non-Abrahamic religion that sprang to mind that has beliefs that contradict those of Christianity.

from what i have sen here at the forum
non-believers are just that.....

if there is hatred behind the posting, it is well kept out of sight

there is a lot of sarcasm in non-believing response....
along with a stubborn resistance in the face of debate....

but to assume Christians make sour assumption....
is a sour assumption unto itself

 

[SomeRandom]

Wouldn't a religion that bans it adherents from modern medicine for themselves and their children be considered harmful?

I'm pretty sure most religious people in general object to that anyway. I mean the only ones I can think that deny medicine are the JWs and even then. There are many doctors who are some flavor of religious.
Being an atheist doesn't automatically mean that one will not reject medical science. I'm sure there are atheist homeopaths.

Wouldn't a religion that stifles critical thinking and causes people to deny science and reason be harmful?

To be fair, the official stance of even the Catholic Church is to accept science. Accepting or not accepting science is not a religious or irreligious thing. That debate seems more of an American phenomenon if I'm being honest.

Any philosophical standpoint can be detrimental or beneficial. I don't see how it's an either or scenario though.

Atheists are as diverse as humanity itself. They can hold views that are similar or even the same as the ones you denounce. That's not to say atheism itself is evil or whatever against science or anything like that. Just saying, humans are not that simple and religion even less so.