It takes a lot of reasoning to accept miracles.

[Thief]

But without proof, then they are just some random dude or dudette with a soapbox. Period.

was it not the Carpenter who cautioned belief in miracles?

He performed them anyway
for the shallow minded unable to hear the parables

sometimes you have to drag people along
give them 'evidence'
or they won't believe anything

 

[rational experiences]

Realism.

We are all born not because science preaches to us about its so called human wisdom, but because 2 human being neither of which is your own self....are before us. As consciousness and also as a living conscious interactive self baby to adult awareness.

Then not only do those 2 pre existing human being adult life/bodies affect us...if your DNA is the same pattern as some one who lives with you today.....or even in the past....those living life bodies and their conscious experiences all affect you …..proven in science studies about people claiming I am reincarnated...when you are only born from sperm and an ovary as a self. So that science information says, no you did not reincarnate.....you are affected by all other conditions.

Realism.

I am born and get told by everyone else what stories to believe in and why I should.

I see life as it is lived, supposedly in a spiritual condition...see all the pain and suffering and evil wars and hatred, and in my owned one life claim...what a lot of liars you all are.

Truthfully in realism.

So I said to my own self okay, spirit if you are real then prove it....I will not just believe because everyone says so. And it proved it only after I was told in my hearing psyche to live the spiritual life first.

Realism.

Was taught...when radiation fall out in sciences attacks the human mind/brain physical body...chemical changes occur and it places you in drugged like dreaming conditions that removes self from the status of being in reality.

So a lot of humans today are walking around drugged. That drugged feeling, then leads many humans to take extra drugs...the reason.

So whilst you are living drugged in a kind of euphoric stupor....then Messengers of the stone come to Earth as answers to Earth science changes to cold radiation spatial conditions...as O Earth travels in its cycles O through space. So science on Earth knows O Earth as a planet owns a cycle...if you change cold space into heated space constantly...then Earth inherits an attack.

Of multi varied cosmological causes.

So asteroid wandering star mass...heated in space..releases its owned stone mass.

Why Earth as a stone body gets stone removed into sink holes....same reason.

The gases out of the stone body are extremely cold.....so as they get replaced a whole lot of personal phenomena causes of atmospheric gas changes occur....seeing space was changed, so was our natural heavenly body changed.

And it is felt, realised, personal changes are lived and experienced as the only selves telling all the stories, as a human in the experience. How is that not relative to the claim, spiritual occult, science caused it?

For all stories are told by humans on behalf of humans as humans living on a planet O that moves through a cosmology that already is formed and owns all forms with science changing all natural states?

Being what is actually realism and relative to the human experience, in dealing with the occult changes as caused by science.

 

[Link]

It's fair to say, since there is a huge distinction on the power of Prophets and sorcery, to understand why one can display miracles in form of proofs while the latter can't, we need to understand what both are.

This is what I mean, it takes ALOT of reasoning to see why miracles are proof. But intuitively, if we say Prophets (s) must display this power if not false, it comes from knowledge intuitively that is a proof if they do perform it.

But why is this intuitive. It comes from believe in God and his power and that being the truth, while the other type of magic, is based on illusion and falsehood.

So while Jesus (a) can create a bird and blow into it a spirit, and bring a dead back to living, sorcerers cannot have such powers, because they aren't delegated sustenance from God.

Anyone with goodness (ie. sustained by God) to the degree of the power able to split the moon while keep the earth and oceans intact and no consequence or shine a light from their hand in the case so bright yet doesn't harm the eyes, these are clear proofs.

Moses' displayed brightness from his hand in form of light yet it was without evil, no harm to the eyes. The translation of white, is wrong. This is a miracle and this when truth was apparent.

The first snake from a stick was a miracle, but because illusionary or hallucinations appeared in people's eyes that dispelled by the snake, and it showed them to be illusions, but people can say whatever if Moses' is just causing us to hallucinate, this became more and more impossible, miracle by miracle, including his hand starting as a small light to a brightness that was so bright that there eyes would've hurt but there was no evil out of it.

And so the truth was apparent. But God keeps bringing greater proofs.

And a difference between peak of Demonic powers from viewpoint of being possessed and demons doing it, is that for example around 5-12 hours, a Jinn pledged he can bring a throne, perhaps him and others with him, can do it together, but the one who had knowledge from the book which I believe was Elyas (a), was able to bring in a twinkle of an eye.

Solomon (a) wanted to show there is a huge difference between magic and demons who he controlled and what they can do under an evil person, and what he himself had power of, but allowed Elyas (a) who his whole knowledge was from the book, to do it, to display also who would be his successor.

Anyways, while subtle, you can say what's the difference between moving a throne in 5-12 hours, to, a twinkle of an eye, well it's the former, we can see demons together doing it, it's not impossible that creatures hiddenly exist with such powers, but would God delegate twinkle of an eye teleportation to even evil creatures and how would they have such power?

Such power wouldn't be delegated to evil people. And so this is what I mean. You have to see it from the vantage point that God is rational, good, and wants to stay as King and control of people to submit to him, for miracles to make sense as proof.

Otherwise, if imaginations run while, yes fiction can assume immense evil power.

More will be said on this topic, but the other way to see it, is to know of dark magic. After all, it was the sorcerers who believed in Moses' because they know limits of what magic can achieve having been experts themselves.

So while people say don't learn magic, I say don't do harm with it, but rather learn it, so you can know how dispel the harms by God's Name and honorable sustenance and his sword and light and that you can see the difference between God's power and illusions and know the limitations of the power of Iblis and his forces.

Consequently you will be attacked by them if you go research with this intention, but, do so anyways relying on God. This way, you know when God's appointed light and guide opens doors to the sky, you know the difference between true sky and illusionary magic world they call to.

Astral projection I've done it a couple of times and see what I look like there, this is not the same as the illiyin and sky that Mohammad (s) can connect you to. Mohammad (s) and his family (a) can connect us and bring us with a ladder to the sky, if we follow them, and bring a clear proof.

This is nothing like the astral projection world, and I know both well enough.

 

[Link]

This is a good topic. Someone please reply to my post above this one.

 

[VoidoftheSun]

Do you know that this was a law set out by YHWH to establish a true versus false prophet? Deuteronomy 18:18 to 22.
Do you think Muhammad would have passed this test?

Yes absolutely.

However though from a Jewish point of view, they'd usually interpret that passage to be about Yeshua son of Nun - who picked up from where Moses left off in the book of Joshua.

Jesus was not an Israelite though, he was a Jew. Muhammad was not a Jew or an Israelite but he had direct the direct word of God, pure revelation (God speaking, nothing added or subtracted). True scripture.

Jesus never made a clay dove into a live bird. He can, but he did not.

It's a little bit silly for you to say such a thing, given how much your supposed to believe in him as a superman.
You're trying to claim that Jesus didn't do something when John 21:25 very vehemently states:
"Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."

These supposed miracles never happened at all. If the Moon were split, there will be cosmological evidence.

Same with the Sun freezing in the book of Joshua?

"And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day."
(Joshua 10:13)

Suppose that was added later too, in your logic.

And we know the Quran was "compiled " by Muslims after Muhammad's demise.

Not at all. Imam Ali Ibn Abi Talib (pbuh) had a complete, fully-annotated codex of the Holy Qur'an before Prophet Muhammad (A.S.) died. The Uthman Codex is merely a culmination.
The Sunni narrative is missing elements of the story because they want to downplay the overall significance of Imam Ali. he was very instrumental in this, basically operating as a scribe (being both one of the first to convert to Islam and being the one to succeed Prophet Muhammad).

This also never happened. Moses was radiating the Glorious light out of his face after speaking to YHWH in person. God is light and it affected Moses' appearance so strong, that the elders of Israel had to cover Moses up to prevent them from being harmed. No one can see God in His full glory, and even Moses had to look away when God passed Moses in person.

"God is the Light of the heavens and the earth."
- Qur'an, Surah 24:35

You should also reflect on the profundity of the names of God:

AL-NUR : 99 Beautiful Devine Names of allah, Asmaul Husna | AsmaulHusna.in, meaning, benefits, in english, malayalam, arabic - Asmaul Husna reciting, asmaulhusna, asmaul husna

Yes, such as Him comming to earth to be born as a man, and to die as one, and to defeat death for you and me.

I can only give simplistic rebuttals to this because you have simplistic theology. He didn't defeat death. You will still die, and in your theology if you don't believe Jesus was God (etc) then you will still go to hell. Christian-Jesus achieved nothing, his death served no greater purpose.

Solomon was long dead before Elias was a prophet.As normal Islamic chronology is so wrong, they even have Jesus' mother Mirjam as Moses' sister.

Since you'll probably ignorantly prioritize Sunni sources, there are literally Hadith about this.

Here is one from Sahih Muslim:

Mughira b. Shu'ba reported: When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read" O sister of Harun" (i. e. Hadrat Maryam) in the Qur'an, whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) I asked him about that, whereupon
He (Muhammad) said: The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostles and pious persons who had gone before them. ​

Islam having a differing (and far more complex) eschatology to you doesn't make it wrong, that's a nonsequitor. It just means that it has a different eschatology than you do.
However it does agree over a lot of traits.

Nope, God wants you to ask forgiveness for your sin, then to accept that He died for your sin and payed for it so you can have everlasting life.

The former makes the latter entirely incoherent, and worthy of ridicule. Literally zero logic.

Then YHWH, the Creator of all tells you not to practice the evil witchcraft, magic and talking to Daemons and dead spirits!

Not entirely, the Bible is not one-dimensional like you appear to be. Different forms of practice have different connotations under different contexts in the Bible. Magical practice occurs throughout both the Old and New Testaments.
Here is one such article on the matter: http://www.religioustolerance.org/divin_bibl.htm
(I'm sure there are books out there that have explored this in greater detail but that article shows some very clear examples of it).
Generally as far as the Bible is concerned, magical practices done for the glory of God are considered righteous. Magical practices done in opposition to God are considered evil etc.

Oh, I forgot, Muhammad did these things, therefore Muslims think it is a good thing. Pal, if you allow a daemon (jinn) in your heart, he will bring 7 more unclean spirits to live in you.

The thing though is that Western Occultism itself originates with the sacred scriptures and not in some foreign place.

The Qur'an does seemingly condemn magical practice though, or at least Black Magic:

And they followed what the shaytans pursued during Solomon’s reign —and Solomon did not turn faithless, but it was the shaytans who were faithless— teaching the people Sihr (black magic), and what was sent down to the two angels at Babylon, Hārūt and Mārūt, and they would not teach anyone without telling [him], ‘We are only a test, so do not be faithless.’ But they would learn from those two that with which they would cause a split between man and his wife —though they could not harm anyone with it except with God’s leave. And they would learn that which would harm them and bring them no benefit; though they certainly knew that anyone who buys it has no share in the Hereafter. Surely, evil is that for which they sold their souls; had they known!
- Qur'an, Surah 2:102


However this cannot be White Magic though because prayer itself is categorically a form of white magic - which is inner transformation and closeness to God.
So it's always gonna be a matter of semantics.

Also notice in the above Quranic verse it defends Solomon AGAINST black magic, unlike in the Old Testament where he is claimed to supposedly have practiced it and become a pagan. Which is a case of the Qur'an very powerfully correcting the falsifications in the Bible.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Hi Shaykhahadun
You say: ' Yes absolutely.

However though from a Jewish point of view, they'd usually interpret that passage to be about Yeshua son of Nun - who picked up from where Moses left off in the book of Joshua.

Jesus was not an Israelite though, he was a Jew. Muhammad was not a Jew or an Israelite but he had direct the direct word of God, pure revelation (God speaking, nothing added or subtracted). True scripture.

1. Moses was not a Jew at all, and therefore you should take note that Moses was an Israelite from the tribe of Levi, and lived in about 1480 to 1400BC. Israel left Egypt in 1445 Bc.
in 999 Bc about, Israel was one united nation called Israel.
after Solomon died Israel was divided into 2 kingdoms in 930 Bc.
The Northern kingdom with Samaria as capitol was called the Kingdom of Israel. and the Southern kingdom with Jerusalem was called the Kingdom of Judea.
The kingdom of Israel were taken captive in 210Bc in slavery by Shalmanezzer, never to return to Palestine, and Juda was captured by Nebuchadnezzar in 605Bc. They were removed to Babylon and only returned 70 years later.
These people intermarried with the Samaritanian populus, and only then received the name "Jew". as a matter of fact, when the old trstament translates Jew, it is actually Judean.
Therefore, to call Moses a Jew is like calling Arabs living in South Africa Zulu's, and calling Zulus the arabic Quraysh tribe.
Not only is it wrong, but displays complete ignorance about history and Biblical archaeology.
To say that Jesus was a Jew is also incorrect, he was from the tribe of Judah, and Israelite.
And to claim Muhammad was some prophet must be proven, and not just claimed as he did with the sword, rape, wars, slavery, prostetution etc.

 

[SA Huguenot]

It's a little bit silly for you to say such a thing, given how much your supposed to believe in him as a superman.
You're trying to claim that Jesus didn't do something when John 21:25 very vehemently states:
"Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."

And the only reference to Jesus making a clay dove alive was from a storybook written 300 years after Jesus was crucified.
Muhammad fell hook line and sinker and thought this story was in the "Injiel.
This made all the Christians and Jews in Mecca, realise that Muhammad was telling stories he heard around evening fires told by old men, and he pretended it was a revelation from Allah, his pagan idol.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Same with the Sun freezing in the book of Joshua?

"And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day."
(Joshua 10:13)

Suppose that was added later too, in your logic.

Quite interesting.
Many historians say the following, but I give you Rimmer; "In 1940, Harry Rimmer summarized these traditions as follows:
In the ancient Chinese writings there is a legend of a long day. The Incas of Peru and the Aztecs of Mexico have a like record, and there is a Babylonian and a Persian legend of a day that was miraculously extended. Another section of China contributes an account of the day that was miraculously prolonged, in the reign of Emperor Yeo. Herodotus recounts that the priests of Egypt showed him their temple records, and that there he read a strange account of a day that was twice the natural length.
Rimmer concludes this section with a lengthy quotation from the Polynesian account of this event."

Furthermore, If the Chinese say the sun stood still for a long time, just as evening arrived, and the Aztcs say the Sun stood still just as morning appeared, we have a cosmological scientific fact for how would the Chinese and Aztecs know it will be end of day in asia, and morning in Mexico.
As time progersses we find thousands of archaeological evidence which was only to be found in the Bible, now fact.
The Quran?
It has zero facts, no archaeology and based on Myths.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Not at all. Imam Ali Ibn Abi Talib (pbuh) had a complete, fully-annotated codex of the Holy Qur'an before Prophet Muhammad (A.S.) died. The Uthman Codex is merely a culmination.
The Sunni narrative is missing elements of the story because they want to downplay the overall significance of Imam Ali. he was very instrumental in this, basically operating as a scribe (being both one of the first to convert to Islam and being the one to succeed Prophet Muhammad).

Perhaps you should take head to the evidence given by Imaam Rashad Khalifa who were murdered in Tucan USA whilst doing his Rakkah by Muslims claiming what you do.
My friend, Even Rashad Khalifa took the history of the compilation of the Quran and published in his book where he gives evidence how Uthman corrupted the Quran, how Hakim collected all the Quran versions and burned it all. Even Haphsas' Quran was destroyed to hide the truth of what was in the Quran.
You take the Sanaa' quran and compare it with the Hafs' version you have today, and it has over 3000 differences.
I have the Hafs, Warsh, Qualoon and al Duri versions and they all differ, with words, meaning, and even wrong spelling.
What you have is a governmental authorised and changed quran by Uthman and Hakim to force some thinking that the Quran was the same all over Arabia in 700Ad. Luckily the Sanaa proves this is one huge lie!

 

[SA Huguenot]

"God is the Light of the heavens and the earth."
- Qur'an, Surah 24:35

Sorry, not true at all.
This word God you use is actually "Allah" in the Quran.
And Allah never wrote the Quran.
It was the angel of Light, or as the bible calls him, Lucifer! who wrote the quran.
He came to Muhammad, and told Muhammad he was an angel of God, which is true, except for the fact that he was also known by the name, Satan.

 

[SA Huguenot]

I can only give simplistic rebuttals to this because you have simplistic theology. He didn't defeat death. You will still die, and in your theology if you don't believe Jesus was God (etc) then you will still go to hell. Christian-Jesus achieved nothing, his death served no greater purpose.

Not at all.
I will die, thats for sure.
But I will receive another body where my spirit will live in, and I will be in heaven with God, Jesus the Trinity.Because He forgave me my sin, and showed me how to defeat death as He did.
Muslims will all go to hell according to Allah, except of corse, those Muslims who go and blow themself up killing other non Muslims.
This is the only assurance Muhammad gave Muslims to get into heaven.
Then they end up in a place where they have everlasting sex with Whures whilst their wifes and daughters burn in hell because they had menses and could not pray during this times.
If ever I get to Muslim heaven and my wife is in hell because of how Allah made her, I will tell him to stick his sick paradise up his you know what, and to send me to my innocent wife.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Not entirely, the Bible is not one-dimensional like you appear to be. Different forms of practice have different connotations under different contexts in the Bible. Magical practice occurs throughout both the Old and New Testaments.
Here is one such article on the matter: http://www.religioustolerance.org/divin_bibl.htm
(I'm sure there are books out there that have explored this in greater detail but that article shows some very clear examples of it).
Generally as far as the Bible is concerned, magical practices done for the glory of God are considered righteous. Magical practices done in opposition to God are considered evil etc.

Now why on earth would you go to this website where Bruce a Robinson writes against the Bible not knowing he is not a Christian at all. He is an Unitarian, and dont like the Bible just like Muslims.
And if you read what he says, you will see he is actually calling miracles of God, Magic and occultism!
So, do you agree that God is the Devil?
God is very clear in the Bible, no witchcraft!

 

[SA Huguenot]

However this cannot be White Magic though because prayer itself is categorically a form of white magic - which is inner transformation and closeness to God.
So it's always gonna be a matter of semantics.

Also notice in the above Quranic verse it defends Solomon AGAINST black magic, unlike in the Old Testament where he is claimed to supposedly have practiced it and become a pagan. Which is a case of the Qur'an very powerfully correcting the falsifications in the Bible.

Let me end off with this fact:
The Quran has no authority at all my friend.
You can quote untill the horses grow horns.
It means nothing at all.

 

[Vinayaka]

It takes one experience to accept miracles.

 

[SA Huguenot]

It takes one experience to accept miracles.

So true.
From my point of view, Understanding that God created water, He will also be able to walk on it shows who He is.
God is not part of Creation, but boundless of Time Space and Matter.
He rules it all.
He is not the creator of death, but of life.
Satan made us to disobey God, and by this sin of them attempting to be God, they were idolators of themself.
Their choice to rely on their own power, changed their immortal bodies into decaying corpses.
We are all under this curse we brought over ourself.
We can only create decay, not everlasting life.
But accepting and trusting God takes us to Him immediately after our death, and leaving this dying body, we again get Life from Him.

 

[VoidoftheSun]

And the only reference to Jesus making a clay dove alive was from a storybook written 300 years after Jesus was crucified.

80CE actually. Every single thing we have about Jesus, whether it be the NT or other, all comes from Oral tradition.
Your Synoptics are no more or less "storybooks" than texts about Jesus from the same period that were not included in the NT.
Your NT canon is not taken seriously by us, you should remember that. It's not divine revelation, it's not even the words of Jesus, it's just four contradictory records about his life.
And you fail to realize the importance of statements like what I already quoted: "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."

Furthermore, If the Chinese say the sun stood still for a long time, just as evening arrived, and the Aztcs say the Sun stood still just as morning appeared, we have a cosmological scientific fact for how would the Chinese and Aztecs know it will be end of day in asia, and morning in Mexico.

Which goes to show that the book of Joshua is just mythological.

Perhaps you should take head to the evidence given by Imaam Rashad Khalifa who were murdered in Tucan USA whilst doing his Rakkah by Muslims claiming what you do.
My friend, Even Rashad Khalifa took the history of the compilation of the Quran and published in his book where he gives evidence how Uthman corrupted the Quran, how Hakim collected all the Quran versions and burned it all. Even Haphsas' Quran was destroyed to hide the truth of what was in the Quran.
You take the Sanaa' quran and compare it with the Hafs' version you have today, and it has over 3000 differences.
I have the Hafs, Warsh, Qualoon and al Duri versions and they all differ, with words, meaning, and even wrong spelling.
What you have is a governmental authorised and changed quran by Uthman and Hakim to force some thinking that the Quran was the same all over Arabia in 700Ad. Luckily the Sanaa proves this is one huge lie!

Lol. I do know the Qira'at, you've literally provided nothing here but empty words.

Sorry, not true at all.
This word God you use is actually "Allah" in the Quran.

Somebody is very intelligent. And next you're going to tell me that "Allah" means "The God" in Arabic. Then you're going to tell me that "God" in Hebrew is "EL" and that "God" in Greek (what the NT is written in) is "Theos".
So clever, so thoughtful.

It was the angel of Light, or as the bible calls him, Lucifer! who wrote the quran.
He came to Muhammad, and told Muhammad he was an angel of God, which is true, except for the fact that he was also known by the name, Satan.

It's more reassuring than the Bible, which is just records written by people that doesn't claim to be divine revelation whatsoever. Books that collect previous oral tradition with no chain of transmission (failing to even compare to Hadith, let alone the Holy Qur'an)

Spare it dude, you're full of conceit.

Besides, the Book of Isaiah was also written in Hebrew, not Latin. The word is "Helel", not "Lucifer". And it means "morning star" - aka, the PLANET VENUS.

If you want to tell me the Qur'an was written by Satan though, I'll unironically take that on though to spite you. The Qur'an, unlike the books you worship, was not revealed by a man, it was revealed by an Angel (Gabriel) to the Holy Prophet Muhammad (A.S.)
I don't care in the slightest your silly views, you have nothing to compete with the Qur'an. You do not have the unadulterated direct word of God. You have nothing.

I speak as an Exchristian, Exatheist btw.

Not at all.
Muslims will all go to hell according to Allah, except of corse, those Muslims who go and blow themself up killing other non Muslims.

This is all I need to know about you.

Suicide and Murder are both Haram.

Suicide as seen in Islam
Despair and Suicide in Islam
Are There Parts of the Qur'an That Condone Violence Against Infidels?

 

[VoidoftheSun]

Now why on earth would you go to this website where Bruce a Robinson writes against the Bible not knowing he is not a Christian at all. He is an Unitarian, and dont like the Bible just like Muslims.
And if you read what he says, you will see he is actually calling miracles of God, Magic and occultism!
So, do you agree that God is the Devil?
God is very clear in the Bible, no witchcraft!

Since you're doing a genetic fallacy, I'll post the article itself:

Occultic techniques in the Hebrew Scriptures:

There are a number of instances in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) where respected biblical leaders were involved with various black magic, divination and occultic activities as a normal part of their daily activities -- apparently without any condemnations from God:

In Genesis 44:5, Joseph's household manager refers to a silver drinking cup "...in which my lord drinketh and whereby indeed he devineth". Later, Joseph accuses his brothers of stealing the cup, saying "that such a man as I can certainly divine [the identity of the thieves]". These passages show that Joseph engaged in scrying. This is an ancient occultic method of divination in which a cup or other vessel is filled with water and gazed into. This technique of foretelling the future was used by Nostradamus and is still used today.

Numbers 5:12-31 describes a ritual of black magic that the Priest would perform on a woman if her husband suspected that she he had committed adultery. Verse 17 says: "Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water.." She and her husband would go, with an offering of barley meal, to the tabernacle. The priest would make a magical drink consisting of holy water and sweepings from the tabernacle floor. He would have the woman drink the water while he recited a curse on her. The curse would state that her abdomen would swell and her thigh waste away if she had committed adultery. Otherwise, the curse would have no effect. If she were pregnant at this time, the curse would certainly induce an abortion. Yet nobody seems to have been concerned about the fate of any embryo or fetus that was present. There was no similar magical test that a woman could require her husband to take if she suspected him of adultery.

The Urim and Thummim were two objects mentioned in Numbers 27:21 and 1 Samuel 28:6 of the Hebrew Scriptures. They were apparently devices (perhaps in the form of flat stones) that the high priest consulted to determine the will of God. They might have worked something like a pair of dice.

Elisha was on his way to Bethel. Some small boys came out of the city and made fun of him because of his lack of hair; they called him "baldy". In a violent display of the power of black magic, Elisha cursed the children in the name of God. Two bears, apparently prompted by God, came out of the forest and tore 42 of the boys to shreds. The implication is that the children were all murdered. See 2 Kings 2:23-24.

Lots -- pieces of wood or stone with markings -- were used to determine the will of God. They were similar to dice. See: Numbers 26:55; Proverbs 16:33 Proverbs 18:18.

Daniel, the prophet, was employed for many years in Babylon as the chief occultist to the king. He was supervisor "of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans and soothsayers". See Daniel 5:11.

Sponsored link:

Occultic techniques in the Christian Scriptures:

St. Paul engaged in evil sorcery as described in Acts 13:6-12. (Sorcery is here used in the same way as Exodus 22:18: a person saying magical words or performing magical rituals in order to harm or kill another person). During his journey to Cyprus, St. Paul met Bar-Jesus, who was an attendant of the Roman proconsul Sergius Paulus. He had a conflict with cursed Bar-Jesus, saying:
"You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord? Now the hand of the Lord is against you. You are going to be blind, and for a time you will be unable to see the light of the sun. (NIV)

Bar-Jesus heard the curse and immediately was blinded.

St. Peter also engaged in evil sorcery, as described in Acts 5:9. After he determined that Sapphira had lied to him, he cursed her, saying
"How is it that ye have agreed together to try the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them that have buried thy husband are at the door, and they shall carry thee out. (ASV)

She collapsed and died immediately.


Ritual Abuse and Satanic Ritual Abuse.


Interpreting Deuteronomy 18 in terms of modern-day practice, it is apparent that the following are prohibited:

1. yid'oni The New Age practice of channeling in which a person attempts to contact a spirit in order to gain knowledge.
2. sho'el 'ov Spiritualism, in which a medium contacts the dead.
3. qosem q'samim Casting stones or sticks and predicting the future by their position (e.g. I Ching, and perhaps runes, or Tarot cards).
4. m'onen Foretelling the future by looking for signs in nature (e.g. predicting the harshness of a winter by looking at moss on trees, or fur thickness on animals in the wild, or whether the groundhog sees his shadow on FEB-2.)
5. m'nachesh Snake charming.
6. chover chavar Casting (presumably evil) spells while tying knots.
7. m'khaseph Reciting evil spoken spells to injure others .
8. doresh 'el hametim Any other method of contacting the dead .

Other currently used methods of foretelling the future, such as tea cup reading, astrology, palm reading, tarot cards, runes etc. are not mentioned. It is thus not obvious whether they are forbidden (as in snake charming) or whether they are acceptable to God (as in scrying). A Membership in the Masonic Order (or similar fraternal/spiritual organization) is not banned. Wicca (Witchcraft), which does not allow its followers to engage in black magic or manipulative spells, is not prohibited either. Black magic rituals, are occasionally performed by Satanists as revenge to injury done to them by others; they would be condemned by this passage.

The Biblical passages appear to apply to persons who are directly engaged in the various practices (e.g. mediums, channelers, astrologers, etc.); they do not seem to refer to people who simply observe the activity

That is what the BIBLE itself says on these matters. Your arguing with the Bible, not the writer of that article/site.

Let me end off with this fact:

Not interested, so please spare your vitriol. Your posts have shown me that you're practically an Atheist. I think it's quite clear that you don't even believe in Jesus, which is bloody hilarious
Have fun smoking crack or whatever your on.

 

[VoidoftheSun]

This word God you use is actually "Allah" in the Quran.

Also, because of your ignorance I can't help but mention:

Elah (אֱלָה) is a name for God in Aramaic that appears in the books of Ezra, Jeremiah and Daniel.

It is objectively etymologically related to the Arabic word "Allah".

Also brings to mind the 'last words' (cause every book has their own rendition of what they want Jesus to say) in Matthew 27:46:
"Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani"
(my God my God why have you forsaken me) [btw, not sounding very much like the words of God-incarnate )

Anyway the Semitic languages are all intertwined - hebrew, aramaic, arabic etc.


The Bible was not written in English, I hope you now realize that

 

[SA Huguenot]

80CE actually. Every single thing we have about Jesus, whether it be the NT or other, all comes from Oral tradition.
Your Synoptics are no more or less "storybooks" than texts about Jesus from the same period that were not included in the NT.
Your NT canon is not taken seriously by us, you should remember that. It's not divine revelation, it's not even the words of Jesus, it's just four contradictory records about his life.
And you fail to realize the importance of statements like what I already quoted: "Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."

And here starts the lying about the dating of Jesus and the clay dove!
I give you a fact that this book was written at least 300 years after Jesus, and you want to push it into 80 Ad.
Well, prove this link wrong and produce the evidence.
Parallelism: Jesus Christ and Clay Birds - WikiIslam
Funny how muslims would like this to fit in to the NT, and still clain the NT is false!
Everything in their reasoning must be wrong.
The NT, Jesus was never crucified, the historical facts is wrong, everything, but the Quran.
Pal, Even the Angel Gibriel (Satan) gave at least 5 ayat's where he admitted the Bible and New Testament is true!
And you even have to make this Gabriel (or as you call him (Allah) a liar.
Allah is all knowing and you will answer to him on judgement day on why you called him a liar.
Are you readu for that?

 

[VoidoftheSun]

Funny how muslims would like this to fit in to the NT, and still clain the NT is false!

Not at all, the New Testament as an object doesn't even exist in my mind, it's a relic of the Catholic/Protestant Church.
The books contained therein are just books.