Its going to be a rough ride

[Subduction Zone]

You & have pretty much the same concerns with conservatives.
But they shouldn't be portrayed as alone in threatening liberty.

No doubt. I see that from both ends.

 

[PureX]

The government is not your friend. The bigger it gets, the more it will decide what is right for you. That's all well and good as long as you agree with it. When folks you don't agree with come to power, guess what? The foundation was already put in place to control your life. Too late to have second thoughts about bigger government now.

Governments are what we make them. They are prone to being abused by people who want to own and control everything and everyone. But those people represent only a small percentage of humans. So the rest of us just need to keep a close watch on our governments, so as to prevent those people from gaining power. And that watch has to be constant, because those people will never relent in their quest. Our freedom depends of constant vigilance.

But we establish governments for a very good reason, and that reason is that we all need to reign in our selfishness, and self-centeredness, if we want to live together in peace, prosperity, and harmony. And that's what we set up governments to do: to reign us in individually, so that we can prosper in peace, collectively. That means our governments will always have to have the right to tell us what we must do, and what we cannot do, for the well-being of the collective society of humans that we live within. There really is NO avoiding this, as anarchy is a pipe dream for fools and idiots. And everything else will inevitably be some form of 'government', even if it's just thug rule, by force.

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

Governments are what we make them. They are prone to being abused by people who want to own and control everything and everyone. But those people represent only a small percentage of humans. So the rest of us just need to keep a close watch on our governments, so as to prevent those people from gaining power. And that watch has to be constant, because those people will never relent in their quest. Our freedom depends of constant vigilance.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but it is interesting how we complain about the very people we vote into power.

But we establish governments for a very good reason, and that reason is that we all need to reign in our selfishness, and self-centeredness, if we want to live together in peace, prosperity, and harmony. And that's what we set up governments to do: to reign us in individually, so that we can prosper in peace, collectively. That means our governments will always have to have the right to tell us what we must do, and what we cannot do, for the well-being of the collective society of humans that we live within. There really is NO avoiding this, as anarchy is a pipe dream for fools and idiots. And everything else will inevitably be some form of 'government', even if it's just thug rule, by force.

I look at the government as an umpire or referee. A baseball game would be complete chaos if there weren't umps making decisions and making players abide by the rules. We also think it is immoral if an umpire is corrupt and takes money to call a game a certain way. Same applies to politicians and public servants.

 

[Sir Doom]

The democratic process of majority rule is forcing your beliefs on others. No matter who has more votes.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

People are trying to kick social conservatives out of existence, but we will continue to exist as long as there are people. Trying to silence us is not really going to help.

Well, the only reason we try to silence you is because you try so frickin' hard to turn everybody else into clones of yourselves. Social conservatives just can't stand people being different...seems to make them feel threatened somehow.

 

[Shaul]

Does 'establshed law' mean anything anymore or in the future?

Will those living is same sex marriage have to become roomates again?

Abortions once again illegal? Even contraceptives?

Will voting rights be a thing of the past?

Republicans along with Evangelicals have promised to reverse the last 40 years of the Supreme Court.

I hope the Dems refuse to hear any of the nominees.

Pffft. Your laundry list of boogeymen is laughable.

Take a breath, “Cassandra”.

 

[Shaul]

Well, the only reason we try to silence you is because you try so frickin' hard to turn everybody else into clones of yourselves. Social conservatives just can't stand people being different...seems to make them feel threatened somehow.

LOL. What a weird alternate universe you have there.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

But it's OK for modern liberals to inflict their beliefs upon others?
I don't like curbing civil liberties (the ones they dislike), high taxes,
massive bureaucracy, & talk of requiring service (military or social)
rankle me.
Every side always thinks it has The Truth, & that their agenda is
righteous, unlike the evil other side. Evil is as evil does, & it lurks
on both sides of the aisle.

To be fair, I think "social conservativism," as opposed to economic or governance conservatism.

Modern liberals, like myself, for example, would like to be allowed to live our lives as we see fit, so long as we harm nobody. I'm gay, and having the right to marry my partner is important to me, but at no time did I ever suggest that social conservatives should not have to marry same-sex partners, nor be denied to marry those of the opposite sex (or different colour, religion, or age demographic).

In fact, I don't, as a liberal, think I have The Truth, but I do think I have a truth that I can live with, while I'm happy to let you live with yours.

As to economic decisions like taxes and bureaucracy, or political decisions like forced military service, well, we all get an equal say on those through something we call a vote. And those votes are how societies organize and regulate themselves, hopefully for the good of all, though sure there will be costs and trade-offs. But there is a huge range of things that the state (even at the behest of voters really ought not be involved in. Who I sleep with, what natural products I might use for my own pleasure, whether I want to carry an accidental, criminal or unwanted pregnancy to term, and what I think. That's what liberals defend, and where social conservatives would so often like to tear down for others, because it's not what they'd want for themselves.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

LOL. What a weird alternate universe you have there.

Nope. It's the universe I've lived in, as a gay man, long the butt of a lot of angry "social conservatives," for 70 years. Not an alternative universe at all, and here in Canada, where I live, getting better all the time -- much to the irritation of social conservatives who still want to tell everybody else how they should live their lives. You know, like the ones in California who like to vote on things like who should get to marry who, and who shouldn't. Who knows, if they get their way on that, maybe they'll start regulating hair and eye colour, too. There are precedents...

 

[Shaul]

Nope. It's the universe I've lived in, as a gay man, long the butt of a lot of angry "social conservatives," for 70 years. Not an alternative universe at all, and here in Canada, where I live, getting better all the time -- much to the irritation of social conservatives who still want to tell everybody else how they should live their lives. You know, like the ones in California who like to vote on things like who should get to marry who, and who shouldn't. Who knows, if they get their way on that, maybe they'll start regulating hair and eye colour, too. There are precedents...

Oh I believe it is the universe you have lived in, but it is a universe you have created within you own fevered brow divorced from reality. You do realize that there are plenty of gay conservatives too, right?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Oh I believe it is the universe you have lived in, but it is a universe you have created within you own fevered brow divorced from reality. You do realize that there are plenty of gay conservatives too, right?

Sorry, not going to respond to people who say things like "fevered brow" and "divorced from reality." Like it or not, my reality is my reality, as yours is for you I'm not disparaging yours, so you needn't disparage mine Thank you and goodnight.

 

[Revoltingest]

To be fair, I think "social conservativism," as opposed to economic or governance conservatism.

Modern liberals, like myself, for example, would like to be allowed to live our lives as we see fit, so long as we harm nobody. I'm gay, and having the right to marry my partner is important to me, but at no time did I ever suggest that social conservatives should not have to marry same-sex partners, nor be denied to marry those of the opposite sex (or different colour, religion, or age demographic).

In fact, I don't, as a liberal, think I have The Truth, but I do think I have a truth that I can live with, while I'm happy to let you live with yours.

As to economic decisions like taxes and bureaucracy, or political decisions like forced military service, well, we all get an equal say on those through something we call a vote. And those votes are how societies organize and regulate themselves, hopefully for the good of all, though sure there will be costs and trade-offs. But there is a huge range of things that the state (even at the behest of voters really ought not be involved in. Who I sleep with, what natural products I might use for my own pleasure, whether I want to carry an accidental, criminal or unwanted pregnancy to term, and what I think. That's what liberals defend, and where social conservatives would so often like to tear down for others, because it's not what they'd want for themselves.

Modern liberals were very much behind the military draft & various wars.
So I wouldn't condemn only social conservatives for unreasonable
impositions on others. And it was only recently that liberals supported
gay marriage.....Dick Cheney did before Obama or the Clintons.

 

[Shaul]

Sorry, not going to respond to people who say things like "fevered brow" and "divorced from reality." Like it or not, my reality is my reality, as yours is for you I'm not disparaging yours, so you needn't disparage mine Thank you and goodnight.

Good night, little dreamer. Enjoy your cocoon.

 

[dianaiad]

Does 'establshed law' mean anything anymore or in the future?

Will those living is same sex marriage have to become roomates again?

Abortions once again illegal? Even contraceptives?

Will voting rights be a thing of the past?

Republicans along with Evangelicals have promised to reverse the last 40 years of the Supreme Court.

I hope the Dems refuse to hear any of the nominees.

I expect that no matter who Trump nominates, the Dems will "Bork" him or her. They won't give a good hoot whether the nominee is any good, fair, just or anything else. They will simply destroy whoever it is because they can't handle anybody else having a different opinion.

I predict that Trump will have some problems finding someone to accept the nomination, because doing so will be sure and certain career and reputation death...not because there is anything wrong with the nominee, but because the Dems are so absolutely determined to get their way that they will destroy anybody.

I mean, really....Bork, anybody? Maxine Waters?

I'm a libertarian. I'm not happy with anybody up that way, but I am utterly disgusted with the current Democrats.

 

[Jumi]

Many want to give away freedom, especially freedom of others to be who they are. They think that only very specific freedoms are needed and that politics is the right way to force morality on others. If you thought this was a snipe at conservative or liberal, note that this applies to all authoritarian types.

 

[dianaiad]

Pffft. Your laundry list of boogeymen is laughable.

Take a breath, “Cassandra”.

Y'know, Cassandra was never believed in her predictions.

But she was always correct.

In this case, though, I hope "Cassandra" is only partly correct.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Does 'establshed law' mean anything anymore or in the future?

Will those living is same sex marriage have to become roomates again?

Abortions once again illegal? Even contraceptives?

Will voting rights be a thing of the past?

Republicans along with Evangelicals have promised to reverse the last 40 years of the Supreme Court.

I hope the Dems refuse to hear any of the nominees.

It doesn't matter whether Dems wants to hear the nominees or not, Dems are out numbered by Republicans.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Many want to give away freedom, especially freedom of others to be who they are. They think that only very specific freedoms are needed and that politics is the right way to force morality on others. If you thought this was a snipe at conservative or liberal, note that this applies to all authoritarian types.

Your right about what you said that ( They think that only very specific freedoms are needed and that politics is the right way to force morality on others )

This all was given in Prophecy in the book of Revelation. The beast of Revelation shall seek thru politics to force morality on others, The ones that seek this, are the Dems.that wants to take away people's freedoms of knowing what is right and wrong.
saiah 5:20-23 King James Version (KJV)
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:

23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

Seeing how Dems justify's the wicked for reward, like Kate Stein, there was no justice.

 

[Jumi]

Seeing how Dems justify's the wicked for reward, like Kate Stein, there was no justice.

Like I said this applies to all authoritarian types, which for me includes members of both parties in your country. No other country has dems and pubs, thank God.

 

[Vancouversailor]

Does 'establshed law' mean anything anymore or in the future?

Will those living is same sex marriage have to become roomates again?

Abortions once again illegal? Even contraceptives?

Will voting rights be a thing of the past?

Republicans along with Evangelicals have promised to reverse the last 40 years of the Supreme Court.

I hope the Dems refuse to hear any of the nominees.

Given that this is an international forum with members from all over the world, you are addressing an audience that only to a small degree will be affected by your Supreme Court or legislative bodies. In fact, thanks to your current President who's driving ever broader wedges between the US and the world at large, the US will soon lose its position as the dominant world power. That aside, everyone in the world except the 51 percent of Americans who elected him knows that Trump is a moron and the current situation in the US is not likely sustainable.