It's Not About Belief

[lunamoth]

It's about what you do, following the Way.

What do you think?

34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' 40 "The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

 

[Willamena]

)clap

 

[Scott1]

Good question... my Church teaches, however, that it's not just "following the Way" but that:

The disciple of Christ must not only keep the faith and live on it, but also profess it, confidently bear witness to it, and spread it: All however must be prepared to confess Christ before men and to follow him along the way of the Cross, amidst the persecutions which the Church never lacks. Service of and witness to the faith are necessary for salvation: "So every one who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven; but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven."(Mt 10:32-33)

 

[lunamoth]

Preach the Gospel continuously. If necessary, use words.

 

[lunamoth]

Good question... my Church teaches, however, that it's not just "following the Way" but that:

The disciple of Christ must not only keep the faith and live on it, but also profess it, confidently bear witness to it, and spread it: All however must be prepared to confess Christ before men and to follow him along the way of the Cross, amidst the persecutions which the Church never lacks. Service of and witness to the faith are necessary for salvation: "So every one who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven; but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven."(Mt 10:32-33)

Also, proclaiming the good news in Christ is a bit different from "having the right belief," isn't it?

 

[uss_bigd]

It's about what you do, following the Way.

What do you think?

34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' 40 "The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

This is an exception to the general rule of salvation. But the general rule stays.(faith, baptism, Good works)

 

[Scott1]

Also, proclaiming the good news in Christ is a bit different from "having the right belief," isn't it?

Not if I understand the question correctly.... the "good news" is just that: news. Something specific and tangible. It's not the "good idea" or "good maybe"... so when we proclaim the "good news" shouldn't it matter if we get it right?

I can't imagine God would enter the world through the Virgin, suffer and die for our salvation, but really only cared if we did more good works than bad. What was the point of his life if we don't need to get it "right"... what was wrong with the Jewish faith if all you need is to do good works?

 

[lunamoth]

Not if I understand the question correctly.... the "good news" is just that: news. Something specific and tangible. It's not the "good idea" or "good maybe"... so when we proclaim the "good news" shouldn't it matter if we get it right?

I can't imagine God would enter the world through the Virgin, suffer and die for our salvation, but really only cared if we did more good works than bad. What was the point of his life if we don't need to get it "right"... what was wrong with the Jewish faith if all you need is to do good works?

I wouldn't say it's a matter of doing more good works than bad. It's a matter of understanding that Christ called us to same self-sacrifce he made, which is the impetus to follow the Way. And it is narrow.

And yet anyone who follows the Way (of Love), out of whatever belief or motivation, is participating in God's work in the world, wouldn't you say?

God entered the world to save us, and He did, through His life, death and resurrection. That is the basis for our Hope.

 

[lunamoth]

He said:
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God. 10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

 

[uss_bigd]

He said:
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God. 10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

yup!, its a part of a whole....it has something to do with "the servant not being greater than his master" and who is considered a servant.

 

[lunamoth]

27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. (James 1)

 

[lunamoth]

yup!, its a part of a whole....it has something to do with "the servant not being greater than his master" and who is considered a servant.

I don't understand what you mean.

 

[uss_bigd]

And yet anyone who follows the Way (of Love),

The way is his WORDS. ( i am the way, the truth .... and the word became flesh)

 

[Scott1]

I wouldn't say it's a matter of doing more good works than bad. It's a matter of understanding that Christ called us to same self-sacrifce he made, which is the impetus to follow the Way. And it is narrow.

..... but your "understanding" of what Christ called us to do IS A BELIEF... a belief that you act upon... so belief is the cornerstone of Christian life and we "follow the Way" based upon our understanding of what "the Way" actually is.

And yet anyone who follows the Way (of Love), out of whatever belief or motivation, is participating in God's work in the world, wouldn't you say?

Most certainly.... but one does not be a Christian or know "the Way" to participate in God's work in the world or attain eternal life, wouldn't you say?

God entered the world to save us, and He did, through His life, death and resurrection. That is the basis for our Hope.

The thing you call "the basis" is another way to say belief.... not sure why you are hesistant to accept that.... maybe it sounds more romantic or free to just do the right thing without doctrines and dogmas maybe?

 

[lunamoth]

5 Is this the kind of fast I have chosen,
only a day for people to humble themselves?
Is it only for bowing one's head like a reed
and for lying in sackcloth and ashes?
Is that what you call a fast,
a day acceptable to the LORD?

6 "Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe them,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?
8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness [a] will go before you,
and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.
9 Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.
"If you do away with the yoke of oppression,
with the pointing finger and malicious talk,
10 and if you spend yourselves in behalf of the hungry
and satisfy the needs of the oppressed,
then your light will rise in the darkness,
and your night will become like the noonday. 11 The LORD will guide you always;
he will satisfy your needs in a sun-scorched land
and will strengthen your frame.
You will be like a well-watered garden,
like a spring whose waters never fail.

Isaiah 58

 

[lunamoth]

..... but your "understanding" of what Christ called us to do IS A BELIEF... a belief that you act upon... so belief is the cornerstone of Christian life and we "follow the Way" based upon our understanding of what "the Way" actually is.

OK, you are of course right. For Christians Christ is the Way. However I think it is counter-productive (and counter-love) to argue with people over specific details of belief and tell them they are not 'saved' if they don't believe a certain doctrine.

Most certainly.... but one does not be a Christian or know "the Way" to participate in God's work in the world or attain eternal life, wouldn't you say?

Right! Which is the point of the thread. Thank you.

The thing you call "the basis" is another way to say belief.... not sure why you are hesistant to accept that.... maybe it sounds more romantic or free to just do the right thing without doctrines and dogmas maybe?

Oh, I have no qualms saying that the basis of Christian Hope is a matter of belief and faith, dogma even.

 

[lunamoth]

7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
13 This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. 19 We love because he first loved us. 20 If we say we love God yet hate a brother or sister, we are liars. For if we do not love a fellow believer, whom we have seen, we cannot love God, whom we have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Those who love God must also love one another.

1 John 4

 

[lunamoth]

The way is his WORDS. ( i am the way, the truth .... and the word became flesh)

I think the Way is self-sacrifice, even unto the cross.

 

[Scott1]

OK, you are of course right. For Christians Christ is the Way. However I think it is counter-productive (and counter-love) to argue with people over specific details of belief and tell them they are not 'saved' if they don't believe a certain doctrine.

Was Jesus being counter-productive/love when He admonished sinners? Is the passage I quoted : "So every one who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven; but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven."(Mt 10:32-33) just as bad?

How do you explain the verse when it seems that Jesus will deny people to the Father (sounds like hell to me.... ) for those who just deny him before men?

What BELIEF could they deny that would cause Christ to deny them before the Father?

His hair color?
Favorite song?
Shoe size?

.... or possibly dogmas that are obviously quite important to Christ?

Love ya.
S

 

[lunamoth]

What BELIEF could they deny that would cause Christ to deny them before the Father?

That Christ=God=Love

Love ya.
S

Back atcha.