I've been challenged!

[Noaidi]

Today, 3 christian, meat-eating pupils of mine set me a challenge. They asked me, an almost-vegan atheist, to go to a christian communion service this Thursday and, in return, they would go veggie for at least a week. I accepted, as it would allow both parties to experience a different viewpoint (me going christian for a week and them going atheist would be a non-starter, so we chose the easier options...)

My question is: how should I approach my part of the deal? They told me that I should keep an open mind during the ceremony (which is fair enough), but as I have such strong atheist views, is this possible regarding religion? If the 'holy spirit' entered me, how would I know?

 

[Revoltingest]

Your obligation is to keep an open mind when possible. Of course, some things might not be
possible, eg, your deciding that a sky fairy exists. Your honorable intentions should suffice.
(Caution: I'm just guessing here.)

 

[Noaidi]

Thanks for the advice! I'm approaching it from a psychological view point. As I have never been to a church service before, it'll be interesting to see it from the viewpoint of a 'detached observer' - the cohesiveness of the people involved in the ceremony, the mass unity in prayer and song etc. To me, religion has a strong tribal element and I want to see if that view is borne out.

 

[xkatz]

Make your own Christian denomination and go to your own communion

 

[Nerthus]

Just don't go in thinking the worst - that you won't be touched by anything or it wont have any meaning to you.

You might not come out with any different mindset, but it might allow you to see it ina different way.

 

[Noaidi]

You might not come out with any different mindset, but it might allow you to see it ina different way.

Yes. That's why I accepted this. I want to understand (but not necessarily believe) what they think.

 

[Noaidi]

Make your Christian denomination and go to your own communion

What, you mean with my own bottle of wine?! Yeah, I could manage that.

 

[Wandered Off]

Just remember that if they believe in transubstantiation, then you best not partake, or else you violate your "almost-vegan-ness."

 

[Noaidi]

Just remember that if they believe in transubstantiation, then you best not partake, or else you violate your "almost-vegan-ness."

Good point. It would almost equate to cannibalism. That's a strange concept worthy of another thread. What's with the symbolic cannibalistic approach to communion in some religions? I might bring that up with the minister on Thursday...

 

[Tarheeler]

Make your own Christian denomination and go to your own communion

What, you mean with my own bottle of wine?! Yeah, I could manage that.

Yeah, but that would be like your pupils deciding that "going veggie" means just not eating a rib-eye.

I mean, if y'all are making up your own rules as you go.....

 

[search the scriptures]

well, going to the ceremony, if you think you know the facts why there isn't an invisible creator, and have proved it to yourself, you probably would stay the same way you went in. veiwing/participating the cerimony will not do anything to convince you otherwise.
if you still think in the back of your mind that there is a possible invisible creator, go to the ceremony and ask the people why their faith isn't blind faith, and how do you know it is the truth, as opposed to other religeons/gods....

as far as the answer to:

noaidi : " If the 'holy spirit' entered me, how would I know?

when you truly beleive.

 

[Alceste]

An open mind, eh? Are any of them "keeping an open mind" about staying vegetarian after the week is up, or do they think of it as a necessary deprivation to win your soul?

If life hasn't brought you to belief in God, church certainly isn't likely to, open mind or not. My advice is, make a mental note of some things you think are nice, or admirable, or fun, like "the music was fantastic" for example to demonstrate your open mindedness. Don't even touch the issue of god belief.

My bro once challenged a pair of Mormon missionaries to a Nintendo match for his immortal soul - if they won he'd become a Mormon and if he won they'd have to give it up. They never turned up though.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I give you credit. I would loathe going to a church service, and would have to bit my tongue through most of it. But don't worry about the holy ghost entering you. It can only do this if a) you believe in it, and b) if you want it to.

 

[Sententia]

I goto church sometimes.

 

[Noaidi]

I goto church sometimes.

Well, I've now joined you in that experience (but only this once!)

I've just returned from my ‘christian challenge’. This was my first church service and it was strange.

To be surrounded by people claiming to be filled with the love of their god, the atmosphere was very solemn and sombre. There was no smiling or laughter, but instead silence from the congregation and solemn proclamations from the minister. The sexes were suitably segregated – the majority of the women all had their heads covered, and the church elders (those running the service) were all men. This, though, may be just a feature of Scottish Presbyterian churches, but it didn’t strike me as particularly egalitarian. The other church nearby (practicing a more extreme form of Presbyterianism) forbids women to wear trousers or to cut their hair…

The sermon consisted entirely of praising god, but I couldn’t fathom the reason why. There was plenty of ‘god is great’ and that we should worship him, but no explanation as to why this should be so. Unquestioning devotion seemed to be a given, along with the idea of us all being sinners. None of this was challenged. People seemed to accept the label of sinner as a matter of course.

The concept of self-denial came up (“we all need to carry our cross”). This, to an extent, I could see a purpose to, but for different reasons. I have adopted a lifestyle which has involved denying myself certain things (not driving a car, not eating meat), but because I can see the environmental benefits and the reduction of animal suffering, I accept it. Self-denial, tonight, seemed to be within the context of bringing in you closer to god – again, for reasons unexplained. It was interesting to see the number of my neighbours that had driven to the service – local people who could have left the car at home and walked instead. No examples of self-denial in the service to god were given.

The minister talked about the increasing secularisation of society and how we are adopting a more evidence-based view of how the world works. Instead, he said, there is more worth in simply reaching a conclusion through belief alone. God needs no evidence or verification – simply believing is sufficient. This was the point where I almost left! Telling people to simply believe leaves them open to all manner of charlatans and stifles inquiry, IMO.

In a way, I’m glad I accepted the challenge (and the pupils, in return, have stuck to their part of the bargain so far), as it has allowed me to see how such services are conducted and the effect it has on people. However, it’s not an experience I will repeat. I hope I kept an open mind, but it's definitely not for me. I would be interested in a Christian response to this. Is there anything that you feel I have mis-read or misrepresented?

 

[Autodidact]

Today, 3 christian, meat-eating pupils of mine set me a challenge. They asked me, an almost-vegan atheist, to go to a christian communion service this Thursday and, in return, they would go veggie for at least a week. I accepted, as it would allow both parties to experience a different viewpoint (me going christian for a week and them going atheist would be a non-starter, so we chose the easier options...)

My question is: how should I approach my part of the deal? They told me that I should keep an open mind during the ceremony (which is fair enough), but as I have such strong atheist views, is this possible regarding religion? If the 'holy spirit' entered me, how would I know?

I'm guessing it's like falling in love--unmistakable.

I say go, have a good time, regard everyone there with compassion. (And then tell funny stories on the internet?)

 

[Noaidi]

I say go

Just got back.

have a good time

I didn't!

regard everyone there with compassion.

I would have if anyone had spoken to me

And then tell funny stories on the internet?

Wasn't really that kinda gig....!

 

[Wirey]

A Christian and a vegan walk into a bar.

"You don't eat steak, do you?" asks the Christian.

"No, I don't," replies the vegan.

"I see," says the Christian.

A few minutes later, the vegan looks at the Christian and says "You don't fornicate with groups of women, do you?"

"No, I don't," replies the Christian.

"You should try it. It's better than steak," says the vegan.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In a way, I’m glad I accepted the challenge (and the pupils, in return, have stuck to their part of the bargain so far), as it has allowed me to see how such services are conducted and the effect it has on people. However, it’s not an experience I will repeat. I hope I kept an open mind, but it's definitely not for me. I would be interested in a Christian response to this. Is there anything that you feel I have mis-read or misrepresented?

There are some good churches. They are few and far between, but to some of them congregating together, singing, telling jokes, and being more of a community gathering that is in it's self praising God, rather than the tradition church of reading from the Bible and giving your own interpretation. Just be glad you didn't go to a church that tells people how much to tithe.

 

[Noaidi]

A Christian and a vegan walk into a bar.

"You don't eat steak, do you?" asks the Christian.

"No, I don't," replies the vegan.

"I see," says the Christian.

A few minutes later, the vegan looks at the Christian and says "You don't fornicate with groups of women, do you?"

"No, I don't," replies the Christian.

"You should try it. It's better than steak," says the vegan.

Nice!