Jésus to save all the sin?

[Bob Dixon]

Alishan, you're right, but this life is important, too. Jesus preached that we shouldn't become too attached to earthly things because they pass away. That's true. But if all your focus is on the afterlife only, you can lose sight of God.

 

[alishan]

yes thats why we say that islam is the middle way between monk and "all is possible total freedom" 's people

middle way not monk so we go on holiday , get married, work, have fun

but this fun have limit not going in public place where there is alocohol, music, mixity,...
and most of our conversation is about God because word is a manifestation of your hearth
so when you see some family during christmas and you don't hear the word "Jésus " or "God"
but the words "christmas 's presents" "money" "now i work in " "next summer i go to.."
"you see my dress.. "you see my haircut.."
it s opposite of jésus s teaching

 

[JacobEzra.]

yes

i understand what you mean

i mean that the message of Jésus is not to be attracted and attached by this life

so of course that we should have fun and iam muslim, we have a lot of fun (laughing and having rest)
but the main goal is after life

and ask to 10 christian people going to the mess on sunday
ask them what do you ask to God 9 will ask " i ask God protect my family and give me health"

it means that most of them their paradise is in this life not for afterlife

my whole family is christian if you make a "hearth machine" that calculate the degree of love for one thing for exemple a man who see a woman and love her, the machine will write the score 100
and if you dont care about it it would write 0

most of christian the score 100 is for family, children , holidays but not for God , God is half half just to protect their paradise that is their sweat life

but i can be wrong

I am having a bit of trouble with understanding you.

DO you mean, asking God for protection of Family and health, that it means you do not care for God and afterlife?

 

[JacobEzra.]

yes thats why we say that islam is the middle way between monk and "all is possible total freedom" 's people

middle way not monk so we go on holiday , get married, work, have fun

but this fun have limit not going in public place where there is alocohol, music, mixity,...
and most of our conversation is about God because word is a manifestation of your hearth
so when you see some family during christmas and you don't hear the word "Jésus " or "God"
but the words "christmas 's presents" "money" "now i work in " "next summer i go to.."
"you see my dress.. "you see my haircut.."
it s opposite of jésus s teaching

Christmas is not about presents and money, etc. It is a problem. BUt not everyone who claims to be Christian is fully Christian.

 

[alishan]

DO you mean, asking God for protection of Family and health, that it means you do not care for God and afterlife?

of course not but when there is only this , it s a problem

in Islam Coran said that some people will ask only for this life and they will have only for this life

and other will ask for this life and other life , after life : thats what we do in islam.

Islam is not extreme it s balance, the christians are not bad but they hearth is very fond and only for this life in general.

make a test speak with a christian about death you will see that most of them dont know anything and dont care , because the most important is their little garden with family.

and many of them will tell you "maybe i beleave in reincarnation"

so God and religion for christian is just like fun not very serious

jehovah witness and ortodox christian are better, more sincerity i think.

 

[JacobEzra.]

make a test speak with a christian about death you will see that most of them dont know anything and dont care , because the most important is their little garden with family.

I seriously doubt this claim of yours because I AM involved with Christian groups and Christian discussions alot. Death is a worry and that is why we take part in sacraments such as reconciliation.

and many of them will tell you "maybe i beleave in reincarnation"

Well if you know a Catholic who says that, then tell them to look again at Church teaching. They are in error.

so God and religion for christian is just like fun not very serious

Again, I redirect you to my earlier post where I mention Mortal sins and refraining from them. The faith is very serious. Some are not as serious as others and are with participation of the faith in body and not heart, which is wrong.

jehovah witness and ortodox christian are better, more sincerity i think.

I just have one question and that is;

Do you know anything about Catholicism and what is taught to even make such a judgement?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

hi
i would like to know if i love jésus and i kill steal and rape people will he save me?
who decide what kind of sin will be possible to do to be saved by jésus? how can we know?
because normally you should say "Jésus was on the cross to save all the sin of the world except..."

All sin except for the unforgivable sin [Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6]

That is why Matthew [20v28] wrote Jesus ransom covers 'many' not all.

People that steal, rape, etc, can be saved 'only' if repentant. -2nd Peter 3v9

The 'past tense' is used at 1st Corinthians 6vs9-11 A.
That is what some of you 'were'. 'Were' as in formerly practicing sin.

Sin is either on purpose or not. Intentional or not. Premeditated or not.
-Hebrews 10vs26,27.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No. If you kill, steal and rape people, you will not be saved from Hell fire unless you repent and do penance.

When you say hell fire without explaining 'Gehenna' a person could be led to think Gehenna [hellfire] is eternal burning.

There is a difference between the 'biblical hell' [sheol] were Jesus was
[Acts 2vs27,31; Psalm 16v10] and the 'non-biblical burning forever' myth.

Sheol [the Hebrew word translated into English as hell]
was the common grave of mankind.
[Also the word cemetery means: sleeping place. RIP]

In order for a person to feel fire one would have to be conscious.
Jesus believed he would Not be conscious while in hell [sheol/haides]
[John 11vs11-14] because Jesus taught the dead are in a sleep-like state.

Jesus was educated in the Hebrew Scriptures where the Psalmist thought the dead sleep. Psalms 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4.

King Solomon, known because of his God-given wisdom, wrote that the dead know nothing at Ecclesiastes 9v5.

Even Daniel looked forward to being awakened from death's sleep.
-Daniel 12vs2,13.

Being saved from 'hellfire' [Gehenna] means being saved from destruction because Gehenna was a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed Not kept burning forever.

The Bible's hell [sheol] comes to a final end according to Rev 20vs13,14.

Whereas the wicked are destroyed forever. -Psalm 92v7.
Destroyed in 'second death' or no further existence anywhere.
Even Satan is destroyed according to Heb. 2v14 B; Rom. 16v20; Rev. 21v8

 

[alishan]

Do you know anything about Catholicism and what is taught to even make such a judgement?

i know catholicism teaching and i observe the behaviour of christian
form france to bresil to china you see behavior that are similar

one chinese was asked why did she convert to christianity?
she answered "i was buddhist and in buddhism you can reach the buddha's state but you make one good action you get closer and if you make a sin you get far. But Jésus sacrified himself for the sin of humanity. he gave me the paradise freely why should i be so stupid to refuse?"

but it s normal that defend your religion but you can not deny that there is a crisis in catholicism as young people don t care nowadays about catholicism it s just culture


respect to all the christian

thanks

 

[peacecrusader888]

i know catholicism teaching and i observe the behaviour of christian
form france to bresil to china you see behavior that are similar

one chinese was asked why did she convert to christianity?
she answered "i was buddhist and in buddhism you can reach the buddha's state but you make one good action you get closer and if you make a sin you get far. But Jésus sacrified himself for the sin of humanity. he gave me the paradise freely why should i be so stupid to refuse?"

but it s normal that defend your religion but you can not deny that there is a crisis in catholicism as young people don t care nowadays about catholicism it s just culture


respect to all the christian

thanks

20111120.2040

@alishan

Not because Jesus died on the cross for our sin, we will interpret that to mean that we will be saved through Him.

Yes, he died on the cross to show:
1. That He really love mankind,
2. How to bear sufferings,
3. How important our soul is (if the soul is nothing, He would not bore the sufferings),
4. How He received the lashes,
5. How He received the nails to be crucified,
6. That He died, but He also showed that He came back to life.
Remember what Revelation 20:13 says: “and they were judged every man according to their works”. So if we have been bad, we will be “cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:14-15).

Jesus said in John 14:6, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” One will not go to Heaven where the Father is without believing in Jesus. And if we believe in Him, we have to follow His commandments. Jesus said in Matthew 22:40, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandments. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

 

[alishan]

ok i understand your point of view

 

[URAVIP2ME]

20111120.2040
@alishan
Not because Jesus died on the cross for our sin, we will interpret that to mean that we will be saved through Him.
Yes, he died on the cross to show:
1. That He really love mankind,
2. How to bear sufferings,
3. How important our soul is (if the soul is nothing, He would not bore the sufferings),
4. How He received the lashes,
5. How He received the nails to be crucified,
6. That He died, but He also showed that He came back to life.
Remember what Revelation 20:13 says: “and they were judged every man according to their works”. So if we have been bad, we will be “cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:14-15).
Jesus said in John 14:6, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” One will not go to Heaven where the Father is without believing in Jesus. And if we believe in Him, we have to follow His commandments. Jesus said in Matthew 22:40, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandments. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

...and Jesus gave us a 'new' commandment at John [13 vs34,35]
to love as he loved. That Christ-like love would be the identifying mark of a genuine Christian.

The Bible's definition of the lake of fire is: second death.

A first death, so to speak, in Scripture is likened to a deep sleep.
[John 11vs11-14; Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4; Ecc 9v5; Daniel 12vs2,13]
That 'death' means the righteous and unrighteous will have a resurrection according to Acts [24v15]. No resurrection from second death.
-Jer. 51 vs39,57

Except for those of Matt 12v32, the rest will have a resurrection to either heaven [Rev20v6;14v4; 5vs9,10],
or a resurrection on earth during Jesus messianic 1000-year reign over earth.
Adam, at creation, became a living soul [Gen 2v7].
At death Adam became a dead soul or a lifeless soul.
The soul that sins dies. -Ezekiel 18vs4,20.
The soul can be destroyed according to Acts 3v23.

After everybody is 'delivered up' [resurrected] out of the Bible's hell [sheol]
[Rev 20vs13,14] then it is 'emptied-out hell' that is cast into second death.
Meaning no further existence. Like the wicked [Psalm 92v7] are destroyed forever. So, 'second death' is a fitting symbol for destruction.

Even Satan will be destroyed in: second death.
-Rev 21v8; Rom 16v20; Heb 2v14 B.

 

[alishan]

yes ok thanks

 

[Oak of Justice]

If the son frees you ,you will truly be free.That's what the son of man says.Jesus never said He was dying for anyone's sins. That is a misinterpretation. He said to follow Him, to accept His words and go into the world as He was sent. That is how you are forgiven your sins otherwise you do not accept His words and you are already condemned.By becoming the son of man ,that is how the son frees you.The reason I know is I am son of man.

I am the way the truth and the Life,Jesus and I are One,no one comes to the Lord except by me.

It is written;

When a man fears the Lord, He will teach him the way he should choose. He will abide in prosperity, and his descendants shall inherit the land. The friendship of the Lord is with those who fear him, and he makes his covenant known to them.

The Lord is the strength of his people; the saving refuge of his anointed.

For the word of the Lord is upright, and all his works are truthful. 5 He loves justice and right;

The Lord is good; happy are those who take refuge in him. Fear the Lord, you his holy ones, for nothing is lacking to those who fear Him. The great grow poor and hungry but those who seek the Lord want for no good thing.

The Lord has eyes for the just, and ears for there cry. When the just cry out, the Lord hears them, and rescues them from all distress.

Unless I wash you, you will have no part of my inheritance.
As I have loved you, so you also should love one another.
This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
I have given you an example what I have done that‘s what you must do.
Truly I say to you, no slave is greater than his master nor any messenger greater than the one who sent him.
Once you know all these things, blessed will you be if you put them into practice.


The son of man will come at a time you least expect.Stay awake or you won't know when your Lord will come.

Could this be the time you least expect?

 

[SCHIZO]

hi

i would like to know if i love jésus and i kill steal and rape people will he save me?

who decide what kind of sin will be possible to do to be saved by jésus? how can we know?

because normally you should say "Jésus was on the cross to save all the sin of the world except..."

If you repent of any sin you will be saved; but you must also forgive others for their trangressions against you. However, if you are continually committing grave sin like rape and murder then repenting then going out and committing it again, in a continual process--your repentance probably means nothing in the first place. You must repent honestly, otherwise you are just fooling yourself.

 

[JacobEzra.]

i know catholicism teaching and i observe the behaviour of christian
form france to bresil to china you see behavior that are similar

I disagree that you know Catholic teaching. IF you did, I would not have to explain such things as mortal sin and why you are gravely mistaken with your assumptions on Christianity as a whole. You seem to be more knowledgeable of Protestantism. Maybe you haven't realized but not all Christians are Catholics and the way you say you have observed the behavior of Christians brings up two things. One, how do you know the person was Catholic and how do you know they were truely faithful to the teachings? And two, the teachings say one thing, but to often the Catholic or even any Christian, will act differently.

For an example as to how your logic is horribly wrong; I observe many militant Muslims who's desire is to convert everyone in the world, or subject them to oppressive laws. They are vehemently against the West and do not care at all to attack and kill innocent western civilians. Therefore Islam teaches one to not care about anyone who is not a muslim. Islam teaches one to kill innocent civilians who have done no personal harm to anyone, and advocates oppression. The trend to use barbaric punishments such as scourging for minor offenses.

Am I correct? I will assume you will say, "yes, you are very wrong!". So to are you very wrong. This logic is simply wrong, and there is no way around it.