J. C. Bose and Plants

[Riverwolf]

I just learned about the plant research of the Indian scientist J. C. Bose, which basically seems to indicate that plants have a nervous system much like animals do, able to feel pain and react to stimuli, for example.

But, he lived about a hundred years ago, and due to the fact that I haven't really heard about this kind of thing from modern science, I can only assume that the "reactions" were, in truth, due to something else, and not an animal-like nervous system.

But, the thing is, I can't find anything on the internet about it, and I want to know from any of the science-savvy people here if modern science has confirmed, refuted, or simply ignored this part of his studies?

 

[ninerbuff]

I just learned about the plant research of the Indian scientist J. C. Bose, which basically seems to indicate that plants have a nervous system much like animals do, able to feel pain and react to stimuli, for example.

But, he lived about a hundred years ago, and due to the fact that I haven't really heard about this kind of thing from modern science, I can only assume that the "reactions" were, in truth, due to something else, and not an animal-like nervous system.

But, the thing is, I can't find anything on the internet about it, and I want to know from any of the science-savvy people here if modern science has confirmed, refuted, or simply ignored this part of his studies?

A nervous system would require a brain I believe. So I doubt a nervous exists in plants. But I'm not that familiar with botany so I could be wrong.

 

[Noaidi]

I tend to agree - there seems to be no obvious processing centre in a plant. There is no doubt that plants respond to certain stimuli (such as light, chemicals etc) and that they have receptors to detect such stimuli, but there is no evidence for a processing centre ("brain", if you like) that co-ordinates all the responses.

As far as reacting to pain, plants can sometimes react to a stimulus so rapidly that it may appear, to us, as if it were recoiling in agony. This seems to be nothing more than an electrical response (which animals also have), but - and here's the difference - there are no recognised pain receptors in plants. I think some may anthropomorphise the reactions of plants in such a way that they appear to feel pain.

However, I did find these links interesting:

Plant neurobiology: an integrated view of plant si... [Trends Plant Sci. 2006] - PubMed result

Plant neurobiology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[hindupridemn]

Many invertibrates have a simple nervous system which does not include a brain.

 

[Noaidi]

Many invertibrates have a simple nervous system which does not include a brain.

This is true, but I was responding to Riverwolf's opening sentence:

"I just learned about the plant research of the Indian scientist J. C. Bose, which basically seems to indicate that plants have a nervous system much like animals do, able to feel pain and react to stimuli, for example."


Can animals feel pain?
"Nociceptive nerves, which preferentially detect injury-causing stimuli, have been identified in a variety of animals, including invertebrates. Indeed, the leech and sea slug are classic model systems for studying nociception. However, it is believed that invertebrates are capable only of stimulus-response reactions and lack the necessary brain system that vertebrates have to process pain."


There is no evidence to indicate that plants feel pain. However, if they did, it would be a different form of stimulus-processing activity to that of animals. But Riverwolf was intimating (but not necessarily accepting) that the research he had read implied an animal-like response. This is what I am disputing.

 

[Penumbra]

I just learned about the plant research of the Indian scientist J. C. Bose, which basically seems to indicate that plants have a nervous system much like animals do, able to feel pain and react to stimuli, for example.

But, he lived about a hundred years ago, and due to the fact that I haven't really heard about this kind of thing from modern science, I can only assume that the "reactions" were, in truth, due to something else, and not an animal-like nervous system.

But, the thing is, I can't find anything on the internet about it, and I want to know from any of the science-savvy people here if modern science has confirmed, refuted, or simply ignored this part of his studies?

I have researched this to a certain extent, because I've had people tell me that plants feel pain and such.

In my research, I found no credible evidence that plants can feel pain or suffer. They don't have the nervous system for it. The physical structures to feel and interpret pain are not present. Many plants can, however, respond to stimuli in a limited manner, but that does not mean that they can feel either pleasure or pain. Similarly, I can utilize a basic microcontroller to make a system that can respond to things without feeling anything.

 

[Noaidi]

I have researched this to a certain extent, because I've had people tell me that plants feel pain and such.

In my research, I found no credible evidence that plants can feel pain or suffer. They don't have the nervous system for it. The physical structures to feel and interpret pain are not present. Many plants can, however, respond to stimuli in a limited manner, but that does not mean that they can feel either pleasure or pain. Similarly, I can utilize a basic microcontroller to make a system that can respond to things without feeling anything.

What research have you done, Penumbra? This is a topic that interests me too (my training is in plant ecology) and one that is brought up from time to time.

I partly blame the misconception that plants respond in a similar way to animals on a book from the early 70s: 'The Secret Life Of Plants' by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird. I read it as a teenager and was quite swayed by it. It wasn't until I actually studied botany that I realised it was one step away from New Age nonsense.

 

[Penumbra]

What research have you done, Penumbra? This is a topic that interests me too (my training is in plant ecology) and one that is brought up from time to time.

I partly blame the misconception that plants respond in a similar way to animals on a book from the early 70s: 'The Secret Life Of Plants' by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird. I read it as a teenager and was quite swayed by it. It wasn't until I actually studied botany that I realised it was one step away from New Age nonsense.

No, I mean that I researched through information, looking for credible scientific findings concerning plant perception. I didn't perform pain experiments on plants myself.

The only research I've personally done with plants involved studying how they respond to growing in soil contaminated with oil compared to a control group.
(Answer: not well)

 

[Noaidi]

No, I mean that I researched through information, looking for credible scientific findings concerning plant perception. I didn't perform pain experiments on plants myself.

Yes, I haven't found credible evidence either. It's strange, though, how this idea persists.

 

[Riverwolf]

This is true, but I was responding to Riverwolf's opening sentence:

"I just learned about the plant research of the Indian scientist J. C. Bose, which basically seems to indicate that plants have a nervous system much like animals do, able to feel pain and react to stimuli, for example."


Can animals feel pain?
"Nociceptive nerves, which preferentially detect injury-causing stimuli, have been identified in a variety of animals, including invertebrates. Indeed, the leech and sea slug are classic model systems for studying nociception. However, it is believed that invertebrates are capable only of stimulus-response reactions and lack the necessary brain system that vertebrates have to process pain."


There is no evidence to indicate that plants feel pain. However, if they did, it would be a different form of stimulus-processing activity to that of animals. But Riverwolf was intimating (but not necessarily accepting) that the research he had read implied an animal-like response. This is what I am disputing.

Correct; I wasn't about to accept this without doing some confirmation research of my own.