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Jack Smith modeling the intelligent adult in the room

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I don't have expertise. Everything I said was just hypothetical. You may remember that I had asked if Trump is considered "sitting President", and you asked what my point was. My point is that I don't understand the privileged treatment under the assumption that Trump doesn't have a privileged position, yet. Explain to me how he has one, and I may change my opinion.
I don't get the privilege and special treatment as President. Afterall it isn't an actual law that you can't indict a sitting President (and apparently neither the President elect), it's just an opinion and tradition that they shouldn't.
No one should be above the law.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I don't get the privilege and special treatment as President. Afterall it isn't an actual law that you can't indict a sitting President (and apparently neither the President elect), it's just an opinion and tradition that they shouldn't.
No one should be above the law.
I totally agree with this.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
While I agree with that statement in general, I also understand why, in most democratic countries, members of Parliament and the administration are immune from regular prosecution.
I think it would send a serious anti-corruption message to start holding them accountable. They too are humans, they too are citizens of the state, they too should be subject to the same laws they want to enact upon others and held accountable for violations just as we would (this also means extensive court reforms to purge it of being a pay to win system).
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
How soon could the two legal process in question likely start?
How long would the two legal process in question likely take?
How many working days is there until January 20, 2025?

You don't know what you're talking about. Why on earth would you thing otherwise.

P.S.: the answer to question #3 is 38.

Exactly.

Jack Smith is an experienced prosecutor and can clearly see that any further effort would be a waste of time. He has done the logical thing.

Incidentally I greatly admire his attempts to take full responsibility for everything and shield his subordinates from Trump's revenge. How successful that will be remains to be seen.

I would like to see Biden issuing open ended pardons for all those at risk. It's in his power while he remains President.
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
While I agree with that statement in general, I also understand why, in most democratic countries, members of Parliament and the administration are immune from regular prosecution.

Yes, A determined opposition could paralyze an administration with frivolous lawsuits.

How far should this immunity go is the question, and unfortunately the SCOTUS has set the rules very widely.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Exactly.

Jack Smith is an experienced prosecutor and can clearly see that any further effort would be a waste of time. He has done the logical thing.

Incidentally I greatly admire his attempts to take full responsibility for everything and shield his subordinates from Trump's revenge. How successful that will be remains to be seen.
I would say the thing th sheilds all the lawyers who worked on the federal cases against Trump is their honesty and good work. Ther is no way that following due process and the law that will get any of them in trouble. What Trump aims to do is subject them to investigations on false accusations which will cause these people disruptions, stress, and money for lawyers. The dilemma is that the criminal president can't be sued since he will be ordering his corrupt DOJ to do his dirty work. These workers coulkd later sue the DOJ for much the same thing Trump has sued the DOJ for $100 million. The difference is that Trump actually committed crimes, and his DOJ doing the corrupt things he's accusing the current DOJ of doing. Such irony.
I would like to see Biden issuing open ended pardons for all those at risk. It's in his power while he remains President.
There is nothing to pardon. Actual crimes would have had to have been committed, and then the pardoned acknowledge guilt. I don't see that being a good thing for lawyers to even fake. Oddly that itself could be fraud itself. They did nothing wrong, and that needs to be the stand.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
As long as Trump isn't inaugurated, he can be tried and convicted according to DOJ guidelines.
Smith is a coward, as are all judges and prosecutors who prematurely end trials just because Trump will become PotUS on Jan 20th. He is a private citizen now and should be treated as such.
I'd really like to see him in prison until Jan 20th.
Trump is protected by the legal system. It takes time to bring a case to trial. Rushing the case to trial would be illegal itself. Smith unfortunately has to follow the law. Trump is an expert at abusing the law. This is how he "won" most of the cases brought against him before he became President. He learned how to abuse the legal system and make it very difficult for cases to be brought against him. I simply cannot understand the mentality of the MAGA voter. They believe all of Trump's lies and cannot see how they will be very negatively affected by his policies. No one will escape from the damage that Trump does to America except for the uber-rich.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
Yes, A determined opposition could paralyze an administration with frivolous lawsuits.

How far should this immunity go is the question, and unfortunately the SCOTUS has set the rules very widely.
The system was OK before that SCOTUS ruling. Members of Congress were protected against frivolous lawsuits and Congress itself would handle serious allegations, or retract the immunity. Unfortunately, that only works as long as you don't have a majority of criminals in Congress.
(Yes, obstruction of punishment is a crime.)
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
I think it would send a serious anti-corruption message to start holding them accountable.
The fact that that doesn't happen is what makes me angry. I understand the rationale behind dropping the cases without prejudice, but fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
 

Heyo

Veteran Member
This is a commentary from the German paper Taz (Verfahren gegen Trump werden eingestellt: Skrupel- und Rückgratlosigkeit)

Here is the full text, translated by Google Translate:
Donald Trump has done it. He is getting off scot-free again - as in his entire business life, now also in politics. The former and future US president tried to reverse the results of the 2020 election, called on federal employees and his own vice president to break the law, instigated a violent insurrection, illegally stored secret documents in his private residence and covered up hush money payments - and will not be prosecuted for any of it. In view of his re-election as president, special investigator Jack Smith has requested that the two ongoing federal proceedings be dropped, and the judge in charge complied. At this point, this decision is hardly surprising. Trump has politically immunized himself against prosecution shortly after his election defeat. In 2022, exceptionally early, he announced his re-candidacy for 2024 - so that from that moment on he could declare every criminal case that he knew would come his way as a vendetta of the Biden administration against an undesirable competitor. He found a huge resonance chamber for this in the compliant Republican Party and a conservative media bubble that had gotten out of control, and the delegitimization of the rule of law that came with it. Now, as a newly elected president, he sometimes declares that he wants to stop the abuse of the justice system against political opponents, and sometimes he wants to bring his opponents to justice. The mixture of Trump's lack of scruples and Republican spinelessness, Elon Musk's billions of dollars and the prospect of another four years of Trump's judge nominations is frightening. Trump himself has always said that the "witch hunt" trials against him made the USA look like a banana republic. The racist term essentially describes institutionally weak states in which corruption and the law of the strongest prevail. Trump is leading the USA exactly there.
 

Alien826

No religious beliefs
I would say the thing th sheilds all the lawyers who worked on the federal cases against Trump is their honesty and good work. Ther is no way that following due process and the law that will get any of them in trouble. What Trump aims to do is subject them to investigations on false accusations which will cause these people disruptions, stress, and money for lawyers. The dilemma is that the criminal president can't be sued since he will be ordering his corrupt DOJ to do his dirty work. These workers coulkd later sue the DOJ for much the same thing Trump has sued the DOJ for $100 million. The difference is that Trump actually committed crimes, and his DOJ doing the corrupt things he's accusing the current DOJ of doing. Such irony.
Agreed, but those frivolous suits can be very damaging in terms of time and money.
There is nothing to pardon. Actual crimes would have had to have been committed, and then the pardoned acknowledge guilt. I don't see that being a good thing for lawyers to even fake. Oddly that itself could be fraud itself. They did nothing wrong, and that needs to be the stand.
I'm pretty sure Trump issued some pardons for possible future crimes. I looked it up at the time and apparently it's OK. Whether it would stand appeal to the current SCOTUS is another question.
 
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