Japan had reasons to attack America

[Kooky]

I've read the atrocities of the Soviet Union and I have read the atrocities people had to endure at Auschwitz. At Gulags priests were having to attend black masses and eat feces for holy communion and nuns who consecrated their virginity to Jesus were raped until they blasphemed , then shot in the head before they could repent to try and destroy their souls.

Priests in Communist Russia and Spanish civil war sometimes had their hands cut off so they couldn't celebrate mass and people were dragged into the streets naked in the middle of winter and water poured over them until they froze.

Children hearing Bible or Catechism had their ear drums punctured with pencils so they would never hear another catechism lesson and people kept awake from torture and sleep deprivation that lasted so long they were permanently mentally ill and people tortured to the point they were in wheel chairs for the rest of their lives.

People were also killed by vicious dogs, electrocuted, bludgeoned, and the greatest known rape epidemic I know of took place in east Berlin.

Now, I know I wasn't there, so I can't prove it. But I've seen documentaries where the people give their testimony. I've also read books. If I had to choose which concentration camp I'd rather be in , I know without hesitation it wouldn't be a Communist gulag. But I hate Nazism so certainly don't want to make light of it either.

Nazi concentration camps followed the directives of Vernichtung durch Arbeit - "Extermination through labor". Unlike the Gulag camps, which at least in theory were built for the purpose of extracting labor from prisoners, the KZ were built specifically to kill people, with their labor being at best a side product, but not the reason why they were built in the first place.

Of course, the Nazis didn't only build concentration camps. Auschwitz and Birkenau, for example, were dedicated Vernichtungslager - "extermination camps", built solely to increase the number of people to be murdered, and the speed and efficiency by which they could be murdered. Children and women were often gassed to death straight away - though some would die of hunger and thirst during the long transport in cattle wagons. In some cases, they were murdered only hours after arrival at these camps. Those who were not murdered straight away would first be starved, beaten, or subjected to "experiments" where people would be electrocuted, frozen, mutilated, or other sick tortures before they went to the gas chambers.

You talk about atrocities during the occupation of Berlin, but what happened in that town happened in Nazi camps on a daily basis, and the Nazis thought this was justified because they considered the people in those camps - Jews, Roma, homosexuals, communists, pacifists, Jehova's Witnesses, vagrants, homeless people - to be a serious threat to the well-being of their nation.

Tell me then, would you really rather spend your life in a Nazi concentration camp?

How many right wing countries are like North Korea where you can't even own a Bible?

The US shipped Muslim prisoners of war straight to Guantanamo Bay to be tortured for "terrorism", or to CIA blacksites whose locations are still secret.

In Pinochet's Chile, thousands of known socialists and Marxists "disappeared" to secret military facilities where they were tortured and murdered, without their families ever knowing their fate.

The Brazilian military dictatorship - of which current Brazilian president Bolsonaro is publically a huge supporter - was likewise known for such "disappearances", although they did not only target known leftists, but also indigenious people. Since you seem to be particularly fond of Christian priests, I recommend you read up on the works of Bishop Erwin Kräutler, who served as bishop to the Amazonian tribes and witnessed the oppression of those people firsthand.

But really, what is the point of this? What are you trying to accomplish by trying to come out in defense of right-wing atrocities?

 

[Spiderman]

Nazi concentration camps followed the directives of Vernichtung durch Arbeit - "Extermination through labor". Unlike the Gulag camps, which at least in theory were built for the purpose of extracting labor from prisoners, the KZ were built specifically to kill people, with their labor being at best a side product, but not the reason why they were built in the first place.

Of course, the Nazis didn't only build concentration camps. Auschwitz and Birkenau, for example, were dedicated Vernichtungslager - "extermination camps", built solely to increase the number of people to be murdered, and the speed and efficiency by which they could be murdered. Children and women were often gassed to death straight away - though some would die of hunger and thirst during the long transport in cattle wagons. In some cases, they were murdered only hours after arrival at these camps. Those who were not murdered straight away would first be starved, beaten, or subjected to "experiments" where people would be electrocuted, frozen, mutilated, or other sick tortures before they went to the gas chambers.

You talk about atrocities during the occupation of Berlin, but what happened in that town happened in Nazi camps on a daily basis, and the Nazis thought this was justified because they considered the people in those camps - Jews, Roma, homosexuals, communists, pacifists, Jehova's Witnesses, vagrants, homeless people - to be a serious threat to the well-being of their nation.

Tell me then, would you really rather spend your life in a Nazi concentration camp?



The US shipped Muslim prisoners of war straight to Guantanamo Bay to be tortured for "terrorism", or to CIA blacksites whose locations are still secret.

In Pinochet's Chile, thousands of known socialists and Marxists "disappeared" to secret military facilities where they were tortured and murdered, without their families ever knowing their fate.

The Brazilian military dictatorship - of which current Brazilian president Bolsonaro is publically a huge supporter - was likewise known for such "disappearances", although they did not only target known leftists, but also indigenious people. Since you seem to be particularly fond of Christian priests, I recommend you read up on the works of Bishop Erwin Kräutler, who served as bishop to the Amazonian tribes and witnessed the oppression of those people firsthand.

But really, what is the point of this? What are you trying to accomplish by trying to come out in defense of right-wing atrocities?

I would prefer the camp that kills me quickest.

The torture in Communist camps I just find to be worse because for some people it lasted decades.

Defense of right wing atrocities? I did no such thing. I hate Nazism.

The difference is right wing atrocities are thoroughly covered and Antifa accepted by mental health professionals, public schools, Colleges, and all kinds of people I meet.

Far right groups are despised by the media. The Holocaust gets thorough coverage. What Communists did doesn't.

When someone wishes to insult a politician, I never hear the word " Communist" as an insult or a cursed word.

Antifa accepts Soviet banners and T-shirts at their rallies, and are as a general rule okay with Communist China.

Communism is a much greater threat and oppresses far more people severely than do any right wing groups.

I have NEVER heard a liberal in real life expose the errors of Communism or even speak badly about it.

I have heard plenty right wingers condemn the F word.

 

[Kooky]

Far right groups are despised by the media. The Holocaust gets thorough coverage. What Communists did doesn't.

As they say in good ol' Britain, that's total bollocks, and probably says more about your limited selection of media that you either have never come across somebody condemning communism, or that you genuinely believe that nobody has ever done so.

 

[Spiderman]

As they say in good ol' Britain, that's total bollocks, and probably says more about your limited selection of media that you either have never come across somebody condemning communism, or that you genuinely believe that nobody has ever done so.

No, it's because I see hammer and sickle T-shirts where I live and it's accepted. waving hammer and sickle flags at capitol hill here is okay too it appears. Also, in history class growing up, the atrocities of Communists were not covered.

Please quit falsely accusing me. I was speaking in the context of personal experience. I don't hear liberals insulting Communism. I'm sure they do sometimes. But my personal experience has not been that.

 

[Bluedragon]

Having lived in Japan for six years .... They are not taught about the atrocities of their warrior class.

The only reason Japan was isolated was at their own hand. When ship wrecks occurred in the area, and survivors came ashore, they were executed on the beaches. I always enjoyed Tokyo history since we lived in the city. Tokyo was designed to be protected by a small army. If an invader tried to take Tokyo, the causalities would be massive. The streets are like trying to navigate a maze.

What amazed me most, is the Japanese population to me is the most gentle and kind culture you can imagine. It's very difficult to conceive a more ruthless ideology that existed in the Samari Warrior culture.

We did not stay on base. We would get on a train or bus system and travel across the country. If we got lost, someone would come to our aid. I learned Japanese on the trains, trying Japanese with the students while they tried English with us. My youngest brother learned by watching TV and mimicking what the commercials said, then go to the maid and ask what he had just heard.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

They weren’t the “bad guys” in WWII. They were the Allies opposition. I mean I think the decision to attack America was a little dumb, but eh hindsight I suppose.
I did always find it a bit odd that the Japanese basically sided with a regime who considered them inferior, right? I mean the Nazis weren’t exactly egalitarian thinkers.

No, the Germans had high regard for the Japanese people. It was actually the Americans who were extremely racist towards the Japanese and dehumanized them, including the US soldiers commiting atrocities against them. It was much the same during the Vietnam War with our extreme racism towards the Vietnamese and all the awful atrocities committed against civilians by US forces. NS racism isn't the same as American racism. They did not blather on about the "white race" as Americans did, for example.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Okay, did they have reason to attack America? Not exactly. But yes, kind of.

They weren't the good guys in World War 2 , but America showed up at Japan in 1850Something, Matthew Perry, firing cannons when the Japanese were minding their own business, and Matthew threatened war with Japan and that America would bring 100 ships to **** them up in an all-out war.

Both sides eventually compromised on the tiny village of Yokohama, where a purpose-built hall was erected.

But there was severe tension in Japan because they had never seen cannons , heard them fire, and they were an isolated nation.

What they felt was America was going to colonize them and Asia with Europe. Europeans colonized Vietnam and much of Asia and Japan wanted to boot them out.

So, they decided they would colonize some of Asia before Europe and America did.

What Japan did in world war 2 was terrible, but praying to Hirohito who was against the war actually, and praying to Amaterasu, and soldiers of Yasukuni shrine, got me graces and signs beyond anything like praying to Jesus ever got me.

So that kind of turned me into a Japanese nationalist , training to be a Shinobe Ninja Samurai at the moment.

The Russian Empire stepped in, biggest Empire on earth with more men deployed and better weapons , and the Japanese handed Russia's *** to them and won the war in less than two years. That was the first Russo Japanese war and no one understood how a small island archipeligo with less technology, less men, inferior weapons, could do that to a large advanced Empire of Caucasians.

I thought it was due to the economic warfare the US was subjecting the Japanese to.

 

[Spiderman]

I thought it was due to the economic warfare the US was subjecting the Japanese to.

Please explain more on that. Thank you!

The Japanese saw Europeans colonizing much of the world and America very ambitious for power + thought it was inevitably going to happen to Japan when they didn't know Matthew Perry was bluffing when he threatened an invasion.

 

[SomeRandom]

No, the Germans had high regard for the Japanese people. It was actually the Americans who were extremely racist towards the Japanese and dehumanized them, including the US soldiers commiting atrocities against them. It was much the same during the Vietnam War with our extreme racism towards the Vietnamese and all the awful atrocities committed against civilians by US forces. NS racism isn't the same as American racism. They did not blather on about the "white race" as Americans did, for example.

Huh, interesting. I feel like that was touched upon in my history class. But I can’t remember.
I do remember having to watch American wartime propaganda about the Japanese. And yeah, a bit yikes to say the least. They also showed Japanese anti US propaganda although from older time periods, which was actually a very interesting perspective to learn about. However brief.
Not sure why that didn’t tie in to our learning of WWII. But I’m guessing our curriculum is crap in general so..

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Please explain more on that. Thank you!

The Japanese saw Europeans colonizing much of the world and America very ambitious for power + thought it was inevitably going to happen to Japan when they didn't know Matthew Perry was bluffing when he threatened an invasion.

Well, apparently it was more than just economic warfare. This is a detailed article that's not kind towards FDR at all.
Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not - The New American

 

[SomeRandom]

@Saint Frankenstein You seem rather knowledgeable on WWII. What’s your take with Hitler’s relationship with Mussolini?
I just got a non fiction book of the Rise and Fall of Italy’s fascist regime. But I realised I’m not familiar with Hitler’s alliance with Mussolini, not really, despite my reading adventures lol
And that bit of info might make the book a bit more interesting
Maybe that’s in my non fiction reading future lol

 

[Kooky]

No, the Germans had high regard for the Japanese people. It was actually the Americans who were extremely racist towards the Japanese and dehumanized them, including the US soldiers commiting atrocities against them. It was much the same during the Vietnam War with our extreme racism towards the Vietnamese and all the awful atrocities committed against civilians by US forces. NS racism isn't the same as American racism. They did not blather on about the "white race" as Americans did, for example.

No, they blathered on about the "Aryan race" instead, specifically so they could exclude the Slavic peoples of East Europe from their notion of a "master race". They were absolutely also racist towards Black and East Asian people, but of course as they were fighting a war on the losing side, they would twist and mold their racism into politically convenient shapes, such as when they suddenly discovered the inherent superiority of the Japanese race right around the same time when Japan entered into an alliance with Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy.

 

[Spiderman]

@Saint Frankenstein You seem rather knowledgeable on WWII. What’s your take with Hitler’s relationship with Mussolini?
I just got a non fiction book of the Rise and Fall of Italy’s fascist regime. But I realised I’m not familiar with Hitler’s alliance with Mussolini, not really, despite my reading adventures lol
And that bit of info might make the book a bit more interesting
Maybe that’s in my non fiction reading future lol

I know your question wasnt for me, but an interesting fact is Mussolini had Jews originally in the highest ranks of his Fascist party, and Mussolini originally publically condemned Hitler's racism, stating "there is no pure race".

Mussolini when he eventually wrote racist laws told people in his party that the laws were stupid, and he didn't agree with them, but he needed to please the Germans to create an anti-communist, antibolshivek block, and resurrect a Roman Empire that can defend Europeans from the errors of the Soviet Union, crush red revolutions, and purge nations of the errors of Communism.

Benito stalled Hitler's annexation of Austria by putting troops on the border and called on America and Britain to help him stop German annexation of Austria. If America and Britain responded then, he would have joined the Allies.

He told Hitler not to attack Poland and temporarily stalled the Nazi invasion of Czechoslovakia.

With the fall of France , only Great Britain was left because America and Russia hadn't entered. It seemed Britain couldn't win, so Benito felt he might as well enter on the winning side, grab some land, and resurrect the Roman Empire, his dream.

But Benito Mussolini's alliance with Hitler was like America's alliance with the Soviet Union. Americans as a general rule hated the Soviets, but still were Allies. Sometimes in war, you ally yourself with people you don't like.

 

[Kooky]

Well, apparently it was more than just economic warfare. This is a detailed article that's not kind towards FDR at all.
Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not - The New American

I don't think it's a good idea to use The New American as a source for anything even remotely related to politics and history, consider its entanglement with far right organizations such as the John Birch Society:

The New American - Wikipedia

The New American (TNA) is a conservative print and digital magazine published twice a month by American Opinion Publishing Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of the John Birch Society (JBS), a far-right organization.[2][3][4][5][6] The magazine was created in 1985 from the merger of two JBS magazines: American Opinion and The Review of the News.

 

[Kooky]

Benito stalled Hitler's annexation of Austria by putting troops on the border and called on America and Britain to help him stop German annexation of Austria. If America and Britain responded then, he would have joined the Allies.

Of course, at the time, Austria was an authoritarian fascist state much like Italy, which it modelled itself after, so what he was doing was "protecting" a fascist ally and friendly regime (and helping them persecute social democrats).

Fatherland Front (Austria) - Wikipedia

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Huh, interesting. I feel like that was touched upon in my history class. But I can’t remember.
I do remember having to watch American wartime propaganda about the Japanese. And yeah, a bit yikes to say the least. They also showed Japanese anti US propaganda although from older time periods, which was actually a very interesting perspective to learn about. However brief.
Not sure why that didn’t tie in to our learning of WWII. But I’m guessing our curriculum is crap in general so..

US soldiers were known to take body parts of Japanese as souvenirs.
(Some graphic images.)
American mutilation of Japanese war dead

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

@Saint Frankenstein You seem rather knowledgeable on WWII. What’s your take with Hitler’s relationship with Mussolini?
I just got a non fiction book of the Rise and Fall of Italy’s fascist regime. But I realised I’m not familiar with Hitler’s alliance with Mussolini, not really, despite my reading adventures lol
And that bit of info might make the book a bit more interesting
Maybe that’s in my non fiction reading future lol

Hitler seemed to have a big respect for the Italian people, their culture and history. It doesn't seem that Mussolini returned this respect to Hitler.

This is an interesting discussion of it:
https://www.quora.com/How-did-Hitler-feel-about-the-Italians-during-WWII?share=1

 

[Spiderman]

Of course, at the time, Austria was an authoritarian fascist state much like Italy, which it modelled itself after, so what he was doing was "protecting" a fascist ally and friendly regime (and helping them persecute social democrats).

Fatherland Front (Austria) - Wikipedia

Thank you. That was an interesting read.

One thing that makes Benito less of a monster than you might think is that he provided for the family of one of the people who tried to assassinate him, he condemned the Fascists who terrorized socialists following his miraculous march on Rome and bloodless transfer of power, in his final will he forgave his betrayers according to the book "the body of IL Duce, and one of the men who ordered Benito's death, was a political prisoner Benito released from jail to provide for his family.

Benito did many bad things, but in his almost 23 years in power , he created jobs, lowered crime drastically, made short work of the Mafia, kept families together, created independent Vatican city state, gave farmers free land, abolished slavery in Ethiopia, crushed Communism in the Spanish Civil war, and Fascist Italy per Capita had less percentage of people behind bars than present day America, and they had far more unity before world war 2.

When Gandhi went to Fascist Italy he praised Mussolini and said he couldn't find an Italian who didn't like IL Duce. Gandhi was his favorite visitor who left the greatest impression on him.

 

[SomeRandom]

US soldiers were known to take body parts of Japanese as souvenirs.
(Some graphic images.)
American mutilation of Japanese war dead

Ouch! I’ve heard of the atrocities during WWII but I didn’t know that

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Ouch! I’ve heard of the atrocities during WWII but I didn’t know that

It's not something we like to talk about. Most people these days wouldn't know about it. They don't teach this stuff at school.