Jehovah's Witneses

[Friend of Bill W]

This is an email I have from a guy I know from another forum, where we have quite a few JW members, who have tried to evangelise to us in the past (I think they logged the hours in their monthly field service reports).

The e-mail is 100% genuine:

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this might be seem a bit random, but I keep reading your constant goading with JW's funny as it is, and I understand you actually read things and do research before posting, you are very unlikely to get any answer from a JW, as what they will fail to acknowledge is that list of rules is in the most part true,

I was brought up a JW as a young lad and many of my family are still JW, I don't argue to much on the forums as I know a couple of members know my sister and her husband are still JW's and I wouldn't want to make life difficult for them.

my dad whilst being a JW was an evil bad *******, who drunk a lot and ruled us harshly, as I am sure your dad did, that was the way it was, when my sister got pregnant he was pulled up by the elders because she was unmarried, but the lad that got her pregnant and his parents got no such treatment, his dad was an elder by the way, my sister's husband who is still today a JW as is my sister is a thief and I can give so many examples it is unreal, all his kids are not much better, I think my nephew has been disfellowshipped about 3 times, the rest have just left and moved on, he is one disturbed young man and needs help, he recently went on a bender and beat his girl friend to a pulp, who is the mother of his child, that being the reason for his last disfellowshipped,

when I was young my dad went mental when I tried to join the scouts, he also went mental when I followed football, and army toys were thrown on the fire, but when he walked away he was like a new different person, he became compassionate and kind and more understanding,

when I was eight I was so worried that I would end up in hell for going to the school nativity that I lied to the teachers and took my little sister home on the pretence that we had a dentist appointment, they will not argue any of the points you put up because they can't, it is against their teachings.

feel free to use this, I can't, I was far to young when my dad walked away to really understand, he still tells me cases of peodophillia that were covered up, but being a fair person I know that can be said of any religion.

ps stop wishing them a happy new year they don't celebrate it

 

[Pegg]

The e-mail is 100% genuine:

i wouldnt be so sure about this for the reason that the writer speaks about being scared of going to hell.

my guess is that whoever wrote it doesnt realise that we do not teach that hell is a place of torment for the wicked. We dont teach that hell is anything more then the grave were the dead are buried.

Anyone brought up a JW would know that.

 

[Friend of Bill W]

Nope, it's genuine Pegg, I know JWs don't believe in Hell, but this guy was 8 years old at the time.

 

[Pegg]

Nope, it's genuine Pegg, I know JWs don't believe in Hell, but this guy was 8 years old at the time.

so how did an 8 year old get taught about hell if we dont teach it?

 

[painted wolf]

I feel I should clear up my response... I don't dislike JWs ... but I do dislike some of the teachings. But I dislike something about just about every group out there.

I'm not opposed to JWs and wouldn't think less of anyone for being of that faith.

wa:do

 

[Friend of Bill W]

so how did an 8 year old get taught about hell if we dont teach it?

You teach everything do you? You seem to be inferring that your organisation is the only font of all knowledge? Is this correct?

Maybe he saw something on the TV? He was eight years old, Pegg, so it'd be daft to rubbish his story on such an obvious display of non-JW doctrine.

 

[JustWondering]

I asked my JW friends once why they refuse blood transfusions but the only bible referrences they provided spoke out against violence or drinking blood for substanance/religous reasons. Which has nothing to do with blood transfusions. Blood transfusions did not exist when the bible was written so there cannot possibly be any passages against it in the bible.

 

[Flankerl]

How is "They disturb me at home" not on your list? That's the first thing that comes to mind and something you can surely understand.

This!

(X) - WHY DONT YOU PEOPLE LEAVE ME ALONE???

Or something like that.

 

[Pegg]

I asked my JW friends once why they refuse blood transfusions but the only bible referrences they provided spoke out against violence or drinking blood for substanance/religous reasons. Which has nothing to do with blood transfusions. Blood transfusions did not exist when the bible was written so there cannot possibly be any passages against it in the bible.

there is plenty in there about drinking blood...which is what was done in ancient times. when someone got sick, one treatment in egypt was the drinking of blood for example.

the use of it in modern medicine is really no different, blood is being put into the body and its no different if you inject it or take it in tablet form...its still taking something into your body which God has told us not to take. It was a part of the noahide laws that blood was not to be eaten/taken, it was part of the mosaic law that blood was not to be eaten or used in any form, and it was part of christian law that blood was not to be eaten or used in any form.

so we accept this as a law from God that blood is not to be used in any form or in any way.

 

[JustWondering]

there is plenty in there about drinking blood...which is what was done in ancient times. when someone got sick, one treatment in egypt was the drinking of blood for example.

the use of it in modern medicine is really no different, blood is being put into the body and its no different if you inject it or take it in tablet form...its still taking something into your body which God has told us not to take. It was a part of the noahide laws that blood was not to be eaten/taken, it was part of the mosaic law that blood was not to be eaten or used in any form, and it was part of christian law that blood was not to be eaten or used in any form.

so we accept this as a law from God that blood is not to be used in any form or in any way.

Where is it in the bible that blood is not to be used in "any way"?

 

[Friend of Bill W]

JWs used to be able to have blood transfusions, and donate blood; however it all changed in 1945 - notice the date - at this time in the US, it was seen as patriotic to donate blood; it was an American thing to do.

JWs are not allowed to be patriotic to their country, so some vague scripture was cited (Acts 15 from memory is the usual one, but there's some others), and it was banned.

Organ transplants were also banned, but this was later changed back to them being able to have one.

And today? Well, over the years the rules on the use of blood has been relaxed, whole blood is not allowed, but all the separate parts of blood are allowed. Strange eh?

And the scripture says blood is not to be consumed, (eaten), however blood when transfused acts like an organ donation; it's not 'consumed'. If you didn't give someone food, only blood transfusions, guess what? They would die of starvation.

Unfortunately, this doctrine, kills people.

Pegg, what would happen if a JW took a whole blood transfusion because a doctor told them if they didn't they may die? What would happen to them? I'd be interested to know.

 

[Pegg]

Where is it in the bible that blood is not to be used in "any way"?

there is only one right way to use blood according to the scriptures:

to Noah;
Genesis 9:1 And God went on to bless Noah and his sons ...3 Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for YOU. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to YOU. 4 Only flesh with its soul—its blood—YOU must not eat.

Mosaic Law
Leviticus 3:17 “‘It is a statute to time indefinite for YOUR generations, in all YOUR dwelling places: YOU must not eat any fat or any blood at all.’”

Leviticus 7:26“‘And YOU must not eat any blood in any places where YOU dwell, whether that of fowl or that of beast.

Leviticus 17:13 “‘As for any man of the sons of Israel or some alien resident who is residing as an alien in YOUR midst who in hunting catches a wild beast or a fowl that may be eaten, he must in that case pour its blood out and cover it with dust.

Deuteronomy 12:16 Only the blood YOU must not eat. On the earth you should pour it out as water.

Deuteronomy 12:23 Simply be firmly resolved not to eat the blood, because the blood is the soul and you must not eat the soul with the flesh.


the the Christians; Acts 15:20 but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.

Acts 15:29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!”

Acts 21:25 As for the believers from among the nations, we have sent out, rendering our decision that they should keep themselves from what is sacrificed to idols as well as from blood and what is strangled and from fornication.”


to abstain from something means to keep free of it under all circumstances. It goes beyond just 'eating'... you would not be abstaining if you put it into your body via another method such as through the veins.

 

[Friend of Bill W]

This is a top website, created by Jehovah's Witnesses for Jehovah's Witnesses, but it's interesting:

Associated Jehovah's Witnesses For Reform On Blood

Welcome to AJWRB. The purpose of this web site is to save lives. In particular, we wish to save the lives of our friends and family members who are Jehovah's Witnesses.

So, there is a movement within the JW organisation to get this doctrine reformed; however, the people running it will have to do it anonymously, otherwise they'll be disfellowshipped which means even their family may not be able to communicate with them.

 

[Pegg]

And today? Well, over the years the rules on the use of blood has been relaxed, whole blood is not allowed, but all the separate parts of blood are allowed. Strange eh?

its actually a conscience matter. the individual JW must decide for themselves what they will and wont accept.

Pegg, what would happen if a JW took a whole blood transfusion because a doctor told them if they didn't they may die? What would happen to them? I'd be interested to know.

that would depend on the persons attitude. If they took the transfusion under pressure but afterward regretted doing so, there would be no consequences in terms of how the elders would deal with it

but if the person willingly chose to take a blood transfusion and did not regret the decision afterward, it would show a lack of regard for Gods laws in the matter of blood and the elders would likely try to reason with the individual and help them see and understand Gods law...if they continued to defy the laws then they would be disfellowshiped from the congregation until such time as they repented.

 

[Friend of Bill W]

there is only one right way to use blood according to the scriptures:

This Bible Study, with regards the same scriptures, also by JWs who wish to reform the blood issue, challenges what you've stated (I've shortened your post for clarity):

Acts 15 and the Apostolic Decree

What do you reckon?

 

[Gjallarhorn]

For Jehovah's Witnesses opposers, WHY?? Opinions welcome, but I want people to be able to use scriptures to back their argument. I have yet talked to someone who can give me good points.

Scripture...okay:

"Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration, 'The monk is our teacher.'"

Aside from that, bothering me at home seems like a big issue.

 

[Pegg]

This is a top website, created by Jehovah's Witnesses for Jehovah's Witnesses, but it's interesting:

Associated Jehovah's Witnesses For Reform On Blood



So, there is a movement within the JW organisation to get this doctrine reformed; however, the people running it will have to do it anonymously, otherwise they'll be disfellowshipped which means even their family may not be able to communicate with them.

no, this is an apostate website


It is not a legitimate or official website from the Watchtower organization. Apostates can go and do what they like and teach what they like, our organization chooses to uphold Gods laws...not water them down.

 

[Friend of Bill W]

Scripture...okay:

"Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing; nor upon tradition; nor upon rumor; nor upon what is in a scripture; nor upon surmise; nor upon an axiom; nor upon specious reasoning; nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over; nor upon another's seeming ability; nor upon the consideration."

Aside from that, bothering me at home seems like a big issue.

Hey, that's cheating, 'cos I think that's Buddhism!

 

[Friend of Bill W]

no, this is an apostate website

No, you've clicked on the wrong link or something, it's called:

Associated Jehovah's Witnesses For Reform On Blood

 

[Pegg]

This Bible Study, with regards the same scriptures, also by JWs who wish to reform the blood issue, challenges what you've stated (I've shortened your post for clarity):

Acts 15 and the Apostolic Decree

What do you reckon?

i reckon they can go an do whatever they like with blood. We all stand individually before God, so they will be judged according to how God views the use or misuse of blood.

As far as i'm concerned though, the scriptures are very clear that blood was not something we could use for our own purposes. Im not prepared to try and twist those scriptures and i will continue to trust what the Watchtower have to say on the matter and will abide by their stance.