It seems to me that if it is so important to keep the congregation clean, Jesus should revel to the elders who it is who is subverting it. The fact that Jesus does not do it proves to me it isn't right. Right?
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Jehovah's Witnesses and Disfellowshipping
- Thread starter Bangbang
- Start date
People join to learn the bible for free. People join because they have the answer to the question "is a wicked world all there is?" Some people join because they believe to join means to be saved but Jesus said "those wishing to save their soul will lose it".
It is not "doing a person a favor" by disfellowshipping her. See here -----
[youtube]cw8yU-r8G-8[/youtube]
Jehovah's Witnesses Shunning at it's very best! Jw.Org - YouTube
One very powerful reason many people join is to please their families. What most Jehovah's Witness mothers want is for their children to be Jehovah's Witnesses. All Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that to be a good JW is to be saved. Mothers and Fathers want salvation for their children. The children know this so to please their parents, under the guise of pleasing Jehovah God, they become dedicated.
Matthew 19:19 honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'
Ephesians 6:2 Honor your father and mother--which is the first commandment with a promise--
Deuteronomy 5:16 Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
Deuteronomy 5:33 Walk in obedience to all that the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess.
Deuteronomy 6:2 so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the LORD your God as long as you live by keeping all his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life.
Deuteronomy 11:8 Observe therefore all the commands I am giving you today, so that you may have the strength to go in and take over the land
Exodus 20:12 (of the ten commandments) Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
Matthew 19:19 honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'
Ephesians 6:2 Honor your father and mother--which is the first commandment with a promise--
Deuteronomy 5:16 Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
Deuteronomy 5:33 Walk in obedience to all that the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess.
Deuteronomy 6:2 so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the LORD your God as long as you live by keeping all his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life.
Deuteronomy 11:8 Observe therefore all the commands I am giving you today, so that you may have the strength to go in and take over the land
Exodus 20:12 (of the ten commandments) Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
I am sorry to hear that. They say better off dead because they believe all who die in this system which is Satan's system will be resurrected to the new system where everyone will enjoy perfect health. But it is a very cruel thing to say and inconceivable they would say it to a non-Jehovah's Witness. I hope you and your son are doing just fine now.
Thank you for reading and commenting! Peace!
Some people are being removed or "disfellowshipped" from the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses for having a difference of opinion about Jehovah's Witness doctrine and sharing it. That is the truth as far as I know. I have a difference of opinion, but I am not sharing it with Jehovah's Witnesses so I am still considered a Jehovah's Witness by them.
Accordingly, it is not the having a difference of opinion that is bad, but the sharing of it. Why? Does Jesus not care what we are thinking?
Accordingly, it is not the having a difference of opinion that is bad, but the sharing of it. Why? Does Jesus not care what we are thinking?
There are those in the congregation that are silent about all their disagreements. Those people are welcome and not considered "bad association" and they do not spoil the lump. There are those in the congregation that are not silent about their disagreements. Those people are not welcome and they are marked as bad association or they are disfellowshipped. My question is - Why the difference? You might say it is because people who are vocal might get other people to reason their way. Is that why?
I always hoped I might meet someone there who had questions like I had but people are afraid to share what they think. The reason? DISFELLOWSHIPPING I am not afraid of it but I do not have family members to shun me. I have tried to imagine what it might be like to worry about losing my family. I think it is a nightmare for many. So, because it is really so harsh and the reason for the harshness is to keep the congregation clean, it seems kind of useless to disassociate a few. I think it will work only by getting rid of them all. Isn't it?
I always hoped I might meet someone there who had questions like I had but people are afraid to share what they think. The reason? DISFELLOWSHIPPING I am not afraid of it but I do not have family members to shun me. I have tried to imagine what it might be like to worry about losing my family. I think it is a nightmare for many. So, because it is really so harsh and the reason for the harshness is to keep the congregation clean, it seems kind of useless to disassociate a few. I think it will work only by getting rid of them all. Isn't it?
I think I don't know how to take a hint...that said....I might try a different angle
Two people who disagree with the popular opinion of scripture are present at the assembly. The only thing different between person one and person to is sound. One is speaking but one is not. The one speaking is considered so dangerous that he must be removed. The people are ordered to shun him. That means the people will be protected from what he has to say. [this is a side note-even though the scripture promises NOTHING can separate a believer from the love of God - even talk, I guess].
The other person is not considered a danger and may stay.
One is leaven that can spoil the whole bunch but one is not. So false words is what spoils the bunch. OK?
Matthew 12:36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.
It seems Jesus is warning the speaker, not the listener. But shunning is believed to protect the listener. My question is HOW? Please.
Two people who disagree with the popular opinion of scripture are present at the assembly. The only thing different between person one and person to is sound. One is speaking but one is not. The one speaking is considered so dangerous that he must be removed. The people are ordered to shun him. That means the people will be protected from what he has to say. [this is a side note-even though the scripture promises NOTHING can separate a believer from the love of God - even talk, I guess].
The other person is not considered a danger and may stay.
One is leaven that can spoil the whole bunch but one is not. So false words is what spoils the bunch. OK?
Matthew 12:36 But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.
It seems Jesus is warning the speaker, not the listener. But shunning is believed to protect the listener. My question is HOW? Please.
No one commenting to me means no one thinks it is any of their or my business that a religion believes shunning is right and good. Well, that it true but they use the Bible to prove it and they say it is "Jehovah's will" according to scripture. Is it? If it is not Jehovah's will but they do it anyway, who is "bad association"? The one lying or the ones refusing to believe it?
No outrage from anyone but those personally affected by shunning. Very interesting.
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Dis-fellowship, shunning, excommunication, etc, are used by many religious and social organizations to either punish a member or to remove a member who does not follow the established dogma.
Ultimately, the choice is up to the member on whether to follow established dogma, or think independently and be removed from the group.
OK. I see what you are saying. But the kind of shunning I see is not people "being removed from the group". The kind of shunning the Jehovah's Witnesses practice is total. It isn't about making them conscious that they are no longer welcome in the group. It is about making them conscious they are no longer loved. They are not only shunned if they show up at the meeting place (the group). They are shunned everywhere for everything. Do you understand the difference?
So are you trying to say you are a little shun-burned (shame on me!)
Haha That's what they say. They say people who criticize the Jehovah's Witnesses are unhappy. They say anyone who finds any fault with them is doing so because they have been "a little sunburned by them". When I have disagreed with official Jehovah's Witness opinion it is only because I have "an ax to grind" and never because they might possible be wrong.....about anything. Imagine that! Yes ladies and gentlemen, you heard right! We have perfect people among us and they found each other.
By also avoiding persons who have deliberately disassociated themselves, Christians are protected from possible critical, unappreciative, or even apostate views. Watchtower 1988 April 15 pp.26-31 Discipline That Can Yield Peaceable Fruit
Approved association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses.
Watchtower Apr 1, 1986 p.30-31 Questions From Readers
One who has been a true Christian might renounce the way of the truth, stating that he no longer considers himself to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses or wants to be known as one. When this rare event occurs, the person is renouncing his standing as a Christian, deliberately disassociating himself from the congregation.....Though Christians enjoy spiritual fellowship when they discuss or study the Bible with their brothers or interested persons, they would not want to have such fellowship with an expelled sinner (or one who has renounced the faith and beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, disassociating himself). The expelled person has been 'rejected,' being "self-condemned" because of "sinning," and those in the congregation both accept God's judgment and uphold it. Disfellowshiping, however, implies more than ceasing to have spiritual fellowship...... a disfellowshiped or disassociated person who is trying to promote or justify his apostate thinking or is continuing in his ungodly conduct is certainly not one to whom to wish "Peace." (1 Tim. 2:1, 2) And we all know from our experience over the years that a simple "Hello" to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?.....All faithful Christians need to take to heart the serious truth that God inspired John to write: "He that says a greeting to [an expelled sinner who is promoting an erroneous teaching or carrying on ungodly conduct] is a sharer in his wicked works
Watchtower 1981 Sept 15 p.20-26 Disfellowshiping—How to View It
For your thinking you can be expelled from the congregation and when that happens the admonition is to shun you. The only person who has permission to let it be is your husband or your wife. Everyone else shall cut you off. If you are a mother that means your children might shun you. If they are young they will be raised now without grandparents. For your thinking.
Approved association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses.
Watchtower Apr 1, 1986 p.30-31 Questions From Readers
One who has been a true Christian might renounce the way of the truth, stating that he no longer considers himself to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses or wants to be known as one. When this rare event occurs, the person is renouncing his standing as a Christian, deliberately disassociating himself from the congregation.....Though Christians enjoy spiritual fellowship when they discuss or study the Bible with their brothers or interested persons, they would not want to have such fellowship with an expelled sinner (or one who has renounced the faith and beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, disassociating himself). The expelled person has been 'rejected,' being "self-condemned" because of "sinning," and those in the congregation both accept God's judgment and uphold it. Disfellowshiping, however, implies more than ceasing to have spiritual fellowship...... a disfellowshiped or disassociated person who is trying to promote or justify his apostate thinking or is continuing in his ungodly conduct is certainly not one to whom to wish "Peace." (1 Tim. 2:1, 2) And we all know from our experience over the years that a simple "Hello" to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?.....All faithful Christians need to take to heart the serious truth that God inspired John to write: "He that says a greeting to [an expelled sinner who is promoting an erroneous teaching or carrying on ungodly conduct] is a sharer in his wicked works
Watchtower 1981 Sept 15 p.20-26 Disfellowshiping—How to View It
For your thinking you can be expelled from the congregation and when that happens the admonition is to shun you. The only person who has permission to let it be is your husband or your wife. Everyone else shall cut you off. If you are a mother that means your children might shun you. If they are young they will be raised now without grandparents. For your thinking.
Watchtower 1998 December 1 p.17 Defending Our Faith
1. The Governing Body speak for God in God's Name
2. They say former friends and family who have defected will most likely be persuasive about their reasonable excuse, so have little or no contact with such ones
3. So it may be true that they are not categorically requiring their members to shun family and friends, but who dares disobey God Almighty?
1. The Governing Body speak for God in God's Name
2. They say former friends and family who have defected will most likely be persuasive about their reasonable excuse, so have little or no contact with such ones
3. So it may be true that they are not categorically requiring their members to shun family and friends, but who dares disobey God Almighty?