Jehovah's Witnesses and the meaning of words

[savagewind]

It has been about nine years now that I heard, "soon six billion hearts will stop beating", and I am wondering
why the word soon has a different meaning than what it is for the Jehovah's Witnesses.

THEY will say that to Jehovah God nine years is almost no time at all, but the elder of Jehovah's Witnesses did not say, "Jehovah says". but declared it himself in the Name of Jehovah.

So, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, what is the new meaning of soon?

 

[savagewind]

What is the new Bible authorized meaning of "soon"?

 

[savagewind]

Or maybe the elder was actually NOT speaking in the name of Jehovah. Does that mean that we don't have to listen to Jehovah's Witnesses any longer?

 

[savagewind]

I should probably say that he spoke that way at a convention of Jehovah's Witnesses. Conventions of Jehovah's Witnesses is the special place the Jehovah's Witnesses learn new truth.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

Ah yes, good old religious psychology. "Soon" suggests "in our lifetime" without actually committing to any time frame at all. Keeps the faithful keen and there is zero chance of getting egg on your face. The Watchtower has a long and inglorious history of making confident (but incorrect) claims about future events, under the belief that they are being guided by god. Watch Tower Society unfulfilled predictions - Wikipedia It is probably why they prefer vague terms like "soon" these days.

 

[blü 2]

I think the elder's onto something.

I'll bet that all the eight billion people or so living at the moment will die.

Or I would, but I'm one of them, so I'd have to die to win.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Does that mean that we don't have to listen to Jehovah's Witnesses any longer?

What do you mean by, "we" and "any longer"? I have never had listen to a witness. Do you still listen to them?

 

[Sirona]

In case the OP is an (ex-) Jehovah's Witness, I know that withdrawal is hard due to the conditioning, and the shunning of ex-members that they practice. For all others, there is the practical invention of doors.

 

[savagewind]

What do you mean by, "we" and "any longer"? I have never had listen to a witness. Do you still listen to them?

It is not I which says everyone must listen, but it is they who say everyone must listen their way or die. Did you not know that?

 

[savagewind]

In case the OP is an (ex-) Jehovah's Witness, I know that withdrawal is hard due to the conditioning, and the shunning of ex-members that they practice. For all others, there is the practical invention of doors.

If someone was to make threats of death to another person would he who is making the threats be ignored or maybe arrested and tried?

 

[savagewind]

Criminal Threats

They can get away with such threats because they aren't acting as one individual, but as are one body sans everyone else.

Also, it isn't the Jehovah's Witnesses who are threating to do the killing. They say they are speaking for God who they say will cause six billion deaths.

I suppose it isn't possible to arrest their god. Is it?

 

[savagewind]

Anyway, the thread isn't about me. It is about changing the meaning of WORDS in the name of Truth.

 

[savagewind]

Jehovah's Witnesses call themselves "the truth", though I don't know if they still do.
At the time that I know they were still calling themselves that, it was said, "soon six billion hearts will stop beating".

As a Truth believer, I am aware that a person's conscience is to be guarded. A convention of Jehovah's Witnesses is attended by all Jehovah's Witnesses who are able and all their family members. So, in the crowd at the convention, there are always children present and there are
also present some nominal Jehovah's Witnesses who are such for the same reason all people
say that I have a problem. You probably don't understand that and that is OK, imo

It is way past soon, I am sure, so many consciences are in trouble among the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Even though I am conscious of the fact that they still are very interested in my salvation by them, I think their interest is artificial, but I trust that my interest in them is real.

 

[Sirona]

If someone was to make threats of death to another person would he who is making the threats be ignored or maybe arrested and tried?

IMHO, you are talking about psychological violence, but unfortunately,"mere" psychological violence, in contrast to physical violence or "realistic" threats, is not punishable. I have not been in a religious fringe group but I know about the effects of psychological violence. An ex-cult member, like any other victims of psychological violence, may be advised to direct one's aggressions into a productive direction by learning to distance oneself from the psychologically violent situation and looking at it from another angle. He may benefit from acknowledging that he was conditioned and that he actually not compelled to listen to the Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[savagewind]

IMHO, you are talking about psychological violence, but unfortunately,"mere" psychological violence, in contrast to physical violence or "realistic" threats, is not punishable. I have not been in a religious fringe group but I know about the effects of psychological violence. An ex-cult member, like any other victims of psychological violence, may be advised to direct one's aggressions into a productive direction by learning to distance oneself from the psychologically violent situation and looking at it from another angle. He may benefit from acknowledging that he was conditioned and that he actually not compelled to listen to the Jehovah's Witnesses.

OK That is true, but if a Jehovah's Witness makes it known that he will not listen anymore, he will be ostracized. I have heard of parents of grandchildren keeping the children away from their own grandparents. I have heard of people losing all their friends. I have heard of children being given the cold shoulder or even told to leave. I think that even some marriages have been dissolved when one spouse finds out that the other one is no longer faithful to the group.

I think it is a terrible sin (and many times sin causes damage to more than the sinner) that the Jehovah's Witnesses are being taught to believe that when someone leaves their group they really leave Jehovah.

 

[Sirona]

Jehovah's Witnesses call themselves "the truth", though I don't know if they still do.

At the time that I know they were still calling themselves that, it was said, "soon six billion hearts will stop beating".

As a Truth believer, I am aware that a person's conscience is to be guarded. A convention of Jehovah's Witnesses is attended by all Jehovah's Witnesses who are able and all their family members. So, in the crowd at the convention, there are always children present and there are also present some nominal Jehovah's Witnesses who are such for the same reason all people

say that I have a problem. You probably don't understand that and that is OK, imo

It is way past soon, I am sure, so many consciences are in trouble among the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Even though I am conscious of the fact that they still are very interested in my salvation by them, I think their interest is artificial, but I trust that my interest in them is real.

I don't understand the JW newspeak very well, but "guarding one's conscience" IMHO is another word for "conditioning". I think you are slowly realizing that they don't have your best interest in mind, that they can't deliver what they promise to their flock.

Sorting one's feelings out may be difficult, but maybe you should analyse what you hope or expect from joining or attending the religious group, and either try to get over with that need or find another way to get it (like in an environmental or charitable organization).


You might get better advice than this in an ex-JW forum.

 

[savagewind]

Thank you @Sirona I am long gone and not under their persuasion any more.

Feelings and truth are not compatible imo. I joined them because I believed they were for The Truth.
In a way, they are sacrificing themselves for it. Because they exist many more people search for truth and understanding than if they didn't because they wake people up to the fact that this world is about calling lies the truth. That is disgusting, imo.

I suppose I am taking it upon myself to clean things up a bit.

 

[Sirona]

OK That is true, but if a Jehovah's Witness makes it known that he will not listen anymore, he will be ostracized. I have heard of parents of grandchildren keeping the children away from their own grandparents. I have heard of people losing all their friends. I have heard of children being given the cold shoulder or even told to leave. I think that even some marriages have been dissolved when one spouse finds out that the other one is no longer faithful to the group.

I know that. As a kid, I used to read the Watchtower often, due to the obtrusive neighbor who always gave it to my grandmother. One of my former class-mates and her parents are JW, and they ostracized her brother after he left the group.

I think it is a terrible sin (and many times sin causes damage to more than the sinner) that the Jehovah's Witnesses are being taught to believe that when someone leaves their group they really leave Jehovah.

I think they use 2 Peter 2:22 to justify the practice. "Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.”

The Hare Krishnas transfer the devotion from God to the group as well, but I am more of a "nominal devotee" as you would call it to worry myself over that.

 

[savagewind]

I don't understand the JW newspeak very well, but "guarding one's conscience" IMHO is another word for "conditioning".

They are not the same, but one follows the other. First the conditioning and then guarding it. I was lucky because I refused to be conditioned. As soon as I saw the proof that to be a JW is to "trust in their governing body" I left. I had many doubts before that time that they are "the truth", so it did take me awhile to leave them. One reason why I stayed for some years is that I wanted to know what would happen to them, but I found out much more about them since I left, which is, I think, ironic.

Guarding one's conscience.

Proverbs 23:19
Listen, my son, and be wise, And direct your heart in the way.

2 Kings 10:31
But Jehu was not careful to walk in the law of the LORD, the God of Israel, with all his heart; he did not depart from the sins of Jeroboam, which he made Israel sin.

Deuteronomy 4:9
"Only give heed to yourself and keep your soul diligently, so that you do not forget the things which your eyes have seen and they do not depart from your heart all the days of your life; but make them known to your sons and your grandsons.

Luke 6:45
The good man brings good things out of the good treasure of his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil treasure of his heart. For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks.

Mark 7:21
For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,

Matthew 15:18
But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these things defile a man.

Matthew 12:34
You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks.

Proverbs 4:23
Watch over your heart with all diligence, For from it flow the springs of life.

 

[Sirona]

Thank you @Sirona I am long gone and not under their persuasion any more.

Feelings and truth are not compatible imo. I joined them because I believed they were for The Truth.

In a way, they are sacrificing themselves for it. Because they exist many more people search for truth and understanding than if they didn't because they wake people up to the fact that this world is about calling lies the truth. That is disgusting, imo.

English is not my native language but I would consider it disgusting if they made people start asking existential questions only to fill them up with JW speak (which, I suppose, is exactly what they do).

I don't understand whether it is disgusting for you that

(A) they wake people up to existential questions
(B) this world is about calling lies the truth?

Do you think it is better for people not to be woken up?