Jehovah's Witnesses: Was Adam Evil?

[Thanda]

There is something I have always pondered while reading Jehovah's Witness (JW) tracts. Many of them begin with what happened in the Garden of Eden to explain most things (E.g. why we need Christ, Why there is suffering in the world). But what I find really interesting is the almost tangible feeling of hate /disgust/anger the writer(s) has for Adam and Eve and what they did in the garden. The feeling seems to be that if it wasn't for Adam and Eve then we would all have been happy and the world would heaven on earth.

But I do wonder - if Adam and Eve did not know good and evil, how could they have comprehended happiness?
I think of a child. It does not comprehend good or evil (mostly) and while they are usually blissful (which should not be mistaken for happiness) they are not actually happy. Happiness is a condition inseparable from righteousness. Bliss is a condition which can be brought about by ignorance or innocence. Happiness, on the other hand, comes by choice (or choices).

 

[Deeje]

There is something I have always pondered while reading Jehovah's Witness (JW) tracts. Many of them begin with what happened in the Garden of Eden to explain most things (E.g. why we need Christ, Why there is suffering in the world). But what I find really interesting is the almost tangible feeling of hate /disgust/anger the writer(s) has for Adam and Eve and what they did in the garden. The feeling seems to be that if it wasn't for Adam and Eve then we would all have been happy and the world would heaven on earth.

Sin entered into the world through the disobedience of one man....Adam. (Rom 5:12) This defect (sin) then spread to all of Adam's offspring. So yes, there is great animosity towards Adam for unleashing evil into the world when God had already said it was not to be touched. Adam experienced death, just as God had told him. He was not told that he would go to heaven or hell, just that he would die and go back to where he came from.....the elements of the earth.

The mandate given to the first pair was incredible! They were to "fill the earth and subdue it"...what do you think that meant?

But I do wonder - if Adam and Eve did not know good and evil, how could they have comprehended happiness?
I think of a child. It does not comprehend good or evil (mostly) and while they are usually blissful (which should not be mistaken for happiness) they are not actually happy. Happiness is a condition inseparable from righteousness. Bliss is a condition which can be brought about by ignorance or innocence. Happiness, on the other hand, comes by choice (or choices).

I believe you just answered your own question. Children do not have to know evil to appreciate good. Until they experience evil, they take good for granted as the norm.

Adam wasn't evil, he was a free moral agent, capable of making both good decisions and bad. It is part of being made in God's image. Free choice has to be truly free otherwise we would just be robots, programmed to mindlessly perform. God did not create us this way. He wanted humans, "made in his image" to obey his directions as their Sovereign ruler...the one with every right to set reasonable limits for his children. It was when they stepped outside those limits that consequences, which were clearly stated from day one, were experienced. Within one generation from their perfect start in Eden, a murderer was produced...and grief was felt for the first time among mankind.....such was the power of sin.

 

[Thanda]

Sin entered into the world through the disobedience of one man....Adam. (Rom 5:12) This defect (sin) then spread to all of Adam's offspring. So yes, there is great animosity towards Adam for unleashing evil into the world when God had already said it was not to be touched. Adam experienced death, just as God had told him. He was not told that he would go to heaven or hell, just that he would die and go back to where he came from.....the elements of the earth.

The mandate given to the first pair was incredible! They were to "fill the earth and subdue it"...what do you think that meant?

Well firstly, thank you for answering my question about whether Jehovah's witnesses hate Adam.

Secondly, death spread to all mankind automatically because of Adam's transgression in the Garden. However Adam's sin did not force everyone else to become sinful. Each of us, like Adam, is born innocent. Each of us, like Adam, is born not understanding good or evil. Each of us like Adam is born with free will. And each of us, like Adam, make good choices and evil ones. Therefore our sins are on our own heads - Adam cannot be blamed. The truth of this is manifested in the fact that everyone is automatically raised from the dead via the resurrection, whether they were good or evil, in order to be judged. But each person is judged individually at judgement day for their own sins that they have committed.

I believe you just answered your own question. Children do not have to know evil to appreciate good. Until they experience evil, they take good for granted as the norm.

Adam wasn't evil, he was a free moral agent, capable of making both good decisions and bad. It is part of being made in God's image. Free choice has to be truly free otherwise we would just be robots, programmed to mindlessly perform. God did not create us this way. He wanted humans, "made in his image" to obey his directions as their Sovereign ruler...the one with every right to set reasonable limits for his children. It was when they stepped outside those limits that consequences, which were clearly stated from day one, were experienced. Within one generation from their perfect start in Eden, a murderer was produced...and grief was felt for the first time among mankind.....such was the power of sin.

How can a man who doesn't understand the difference between good and evil make a moral choice? Can a man with down-syndrome make a moral choice? Adam and Eve could not make a moral decision until they understood good and evil. Only then could they decide whether they wanted to be good or evil. And so it is with us. It is only after we gain an understanding of what is right or wrong that we can be held accountable for choosing either good or evil.

 

[Mycroft]

There is something I have always pondered while reading Jehovah's Witness (JW) tracts. Many of them begin with what happened in the Garden of Eden to explain most things (E.g. why we need Christ, Why there is suffering in the world). But what I find really interesting is the almost tangible feeling of hate /disgust/anger the writer(s) has for Adam and Eve and what they did in the garden. The feeling seems to be that if it wasn't for Adam and Eve then we would all have been happy and the world would heaven on earth.

But I do wonder - if Adam and Eve did not know good and evil, how could they have comprehended happiness?
I think of a child. It does not comprehend good or evil (mostly) and while they are usually blissful (which should not be mistaken for happiness) they are not actually happy. Happiness is a condition inseparable from righteousness. Bliss is a condition which can be brought about by ignorance or innocence. Happiness, on the other hand, comes by choice (or choices).

Adam and Eve had no concept of anything, really. They were little more than automata. They also had no concept of right and wrong, so ultimately giving them a command that required the concept of right and wrong was a brilliant idea....

 

[Deeje]

Well firstly, thank you for answering my question about whether Jehovah's witnesses hate Adam.

Not a problem...always happy to answer any questions.

Secondly, death spread to all mankind automatically because of Adam's transgression in the Garden. However Adam's sin did not force everyone else to become sinful.

If you read what Paul wrote, you will see that we all inherited sin from Adam. Death comes to all as a legacy of that sin.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Rom 5:12 AKJV)

He also wrote at 1 Cor 15:20-23...."But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming."

Paul spoke of the resurrection as something yet future. Death was likened to "sleep". (John 11:11-14) There was an "order" to the resurrection....first Christ, as the only human resurrected to heaven in the first century (John 3:13) Then Paul says that those that belong to Christ (i.e. his anointed disciples) would not "rise" until his "coming". The Christian world does not believe that Christ has come yet, do they? Do you?

Adam's sin introduce suffering and pain into man's existence when God had no such plans for them. There is good reason to resent Adam.

Each of us, like Adam, is born innocent. Each of us, like Adam, is born not understanding good or evil. Each of us like Adam is born with free will. And each of us, like Adam, make good choices and evil ones.

Adam was created innocent but his free will was abused so that he disobeyed his God.....sin entered his body as a result and he and his wife were evicted from the garden and "the tree of life" which would have allowed them to live forever in their mortal flesh. (Gen 3:22-24)

Death only comes as a result of sin. As Paul said, "as in Adam ALL die"...if this wasn't the case and it was possible to be like Jesus and live a sinless life by telling the devil to "go away", then why do we not see anyone escape death? Sin was passed on like an inherited genetic disorder.....no one is not born "in sin" as King David said..."Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." (Psalm 51:5) David did not believe that just his own mother was sinful, but believed that all children are conceived this way as a matter of fact....no way to escape it.

Therefore our sins are on our own heads - Adam cannot be blamed.

I think it helps to understand that the word "sin" in the original language is an archery term meaning "to miss the mark". It means that "all sin and fall short of the glory of God" no matter how "righteous" they are.

The sin of Adam is the sin we cannot avoid because it is in our DNA...it is the very reason why Christ had to be born as a sinless human to pay for what Adam lost for his children.He gave a sinless life for a sinless life.
It is the willful and deliberate acts of sin that cannot be forgiven without repentance.

" I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." (Rom 7:21-25)

The truth of this is manifested in the fact that everyone is automatically raised from the dead via the resurrection, whether they were good or evil, in order to be judged. But each person is judged individually at judgement day for their own sins that they have committed.

What makes you think that "everyone is automatically raised from the dead via the resurrection"? When Christ comes as judge, there will be many who will not ever see life again. (Matt 25:31-33, 41, 46)
We live in a judgment period in much the same way as the people in Noah's day. A warning was given but the people ignored it. Jesus used it as an example of what will happen when he comes again to judge the world. (Matt 24:36-39)

Jesus sentenced the Pharisees to "gehenna" which is translated "hell" in many Bibles. What do you think this "hell" is because it isn't "hades"?

How can a man who doesn't understand the difference between good and evil make a moral choice?

Who said it was necessary to know the difference between good and evil for Adam to obey his God? Adam should have obeyed out of loyalty and respect for the one thing God had claimed as his own personal property. The immorality was in the disobedience and in taking something that they had no right to even touch...Eve knew this because Adam had told her and she told the serpent.

Can a man with down-syndrome make a moral choice?

That is a strawman because there was no defect in Adam.....he was a perfect creation of his God and he was fully educated before God gave him a mate.

Adam and Eve could not make a moral decision until they understood good and evil.

You are missing a vital point...the decision was to disobey. To disobey meant death...they understood that perfectly. Only when satan made the penalty disappear by lying, did the fruit of the tree appear to be desirable.

Only then could they decide whether they wanted to be good or evil. And so it is with us. It is only after we gain an understanding of what is right or wrong that we can be held accountable for choosing either good or evil.

Not so. They did not decide between good and evil...they decided to take something that did not belong to them, and of which they knew the consequences before they took the action. It wasn't that they didn't know good because God had been nothing but good to them. They did not need to know evil because it would not benefit them in any way. God already knew this, but a usurper lied to the woman and she in turn influenced the man. Sin came into the world through the man, because it says that the woman was deceived....Adam was not. He chose to willfully disobey in full knowledge of what he was doing. It wasn't a mistake or a lapse in judgment because perfect beings do not make mistakes. As free moral agents, they can choose to sin, but only deliberately...this is why Adam and Eve and satan and all his demons will end up in "the lake of fire" which the Bible says is "the second death"...a death from which no one returns. Adam returned to the dust, never to be seen again.

 

[Thanda]

If you read what Paul wrote, you will see that we all inherited sin from Adam. Death comes to all as a legacy of that sin.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Rom 5:12 AKJV)

He also wrote at 1 Cor 15:20-23...."But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming."

Paul spoke of the resurrection as something yet future. Death was likened to "sleep". (John 11:11-14) There was an "order" to the resurrection....first Christ, as the only human resurrected to heaven in the first century (John 3:13) Then Paul says that those that belong to Christ (i.e. his anointed disciples) would not "rise" until his "coming". The Christian world does not believe that Christ has come yet, do they? Do you?

Adam's sin introduce suffering and pain into man's existence when God had no such plans for them. There is good reason to resent Adam.

Indeed. As I said it was death that passed to everyone - not Adam's sin. Adam is answerable for his own sins that he committed in the garden. However, like any parent the consequences of their mistakes are always felt by the children. So just like I inherit my brown skin from my parents so we all inherit death from Adam.
Death is not the sin. The sin, if anything, was eating the fruit. The consequence of the sin was death, and it is this that passed to all men, no matter how good they may have been. That is why Jesus could needed to be the literal Son of God. Had he had both a mother and a father who were mortals, then, no matter how perfect he may have been, he would have still been subject to death. But by having an earthly mother and a Heavenly Father he could both lay down his life or live forever.
.

What makes you think that "everyone is automatically raised from the dead via the resurrection"? When Christ comes as judge, there will be many who will not ever see life again. (Matt 25:31-33, 41, 46)
We live in a judgment period in much the same way as the people in Noah's day. A warning was given but the people ignored it. Jesus used it as an example of what will happen when he comes again to judge the world. (Matt 24:36-39)

Jesus sentenced the Pharisees to "gehenna" which is translated "hell" in many Bibles. What do you think this "hell" is because it isn't "hades"?

The scriptures are clear that everyone will rise from the dead and be judged. Indeed the very passages you have referred to confirm this fact. At judgement day Jesus will judge those according to their works. Some he will find to have done well, others not.

These are the words of Jesus - John5:29:

"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."​

Who said it was necessary to know the difference between good and evil for Adam to obey his God? Adam should have obeyed out of loyalty and respect for the one thing God had claimed as his own personal property. The immorality was in the disobedience and in taking something that they had no right to even touch...Eve knew this because Adam had told her and she told the serpent.

How would he ever know whether he preferred evil or good if he did not understand both?

That is a strawman because there was no defect in Adam.....he was a perfect creation of his God and he was fully educated before God gave him a mate.

There was - he did not know Good and evil. Jesus commanded us to be like the Father. And God said "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil". By taking the fruit Adam, at least in one aspect, became more like God. And since Jesus told us that our potential and purpose is to be perfect as God the Father is perfect, it is clear that this imperfection is impossible without a knowledge of good and evil.

Note also that Jesus came to save us from sin and death, not from the knowledge of good and evil.

You are missing a vital point...the decision was to disobey. To disobey meant death...they understood that perfectly. Only when satan made the penalty disappear by lying, did the fruit of the tree appear to be desirable.

And what did they understand about death? Had they ever seen it? Had they ever experienced it's pain? How then could they make an informed decision about what was more important between staying alive forever and having a knowledge of good and evil?

In any event they chose the knowledge of good and evil. And that decision was followed by God exclaiming that Adam and Eve had become like him. This was also followed by Jesus coming to earth to save us, not from the knowledge of good and evil, but from death and sin.

Of Jesus it is said "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered." It seems then that the difficulties of life that we experience in this earth play an important role in helping us learn true, informed and willing obedience. This obedience is much better than the obedience that comes from someone who doesn't know differently.

And again this can be likened to children. Children when they are young are usually quite obedient. Their obedience stems from their blind faith in their parents and because they don't know any other source of information other than their parents. But when they grow they begin to do their own things. After some time the child then realises that his parents advice about many things were right. Then later in life he again goes back to his parents seeking advice for many things in his life. This later obedience is more worthy than the earlier obedience. For this later obedience is a true, informed and willing obedience.

Not so. They did not decide between good and evil...they decided to take something that did not belong to them, and of which they knew the consequences before they took the action. It wasn't that they didn't know good because God had been nothing but good to them. They did not need to know evil because it would not benefit them in any way. God already knew this, but a usurper lied to the woman and she in turn influenced the man. Sin came into the world through the man, because it says that the woman was deceived....Adam was not. He chose to willfully disobey in full knowledge of what he was doing. It wasn't a mistake or a lapse in judgment because perfect beings do not make mistakes. As free moral agents, they can choose to sin, but only deliberately...this is why Adam and Eve and satan and all his demons will end up in "the lake of fire" which the Bible says is "the second death"...a death from which no one returns. Adam returned to the dust, never to be seen again.

I am glad you say they did not decide between good and evil for in this you admit that they did no evil - since the choice was not between good and evil.

And what does it matter that Adam and Eve we free will if they didn't fully understand the options before them. True they knew what it was like to live in the presence of God. But they did not know what it was like to be shut from his presence. How then were they ever going to be sure that they preferred to live with God than without him if the have never experienced both?

For free will to be effective it requires a good understanding of the choices before them.

 

[Anto]

Adam was not evil, he just made a mistake that has affected every human being on this planet. Think of it like North Korea nuking every major city in the world without realising that they've affected the course of history/ the Earth.