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Jehovah's Witnesses
- Thread starter dan
- Start date
KBC1963
Active Member
Dan,
I see that you believe in order for anyone to have a discussion with you that they must prove they understand CHRIST's doctrine and tho I don't think thats the whole reason why you won't answer what I say, I will however show you the doctine I follow;
Pr 4:2
For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.
Isa 29:24
They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine
Isa 30:1
¶ Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:
Joh 7:16
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Joh 7:17
If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
and what is the will of GOD?
Mt 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mt 22:38
This is the first and great commandment.
Mt 22:39
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mt 22:40
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
I notice that you give nothing toward proving your words about my posts (tho I provide many scriptures to prove my words) and just denying what I say doesn't prove anything to me nor should it convince anyone else, I ask that you provide some form of proof that I am wrong otherwise the argument ends.
"the world is flat, no the world is round,no the world is flat, no the world is round,no the world is flat, no the world is round,no the world is flat, no the world is round.............."
I see that you believe in order for anyone to have a discussion with you that they must prove they understand CHRIST's doctrine and tho I don't think thats the whole reason why you won't answer what I say, I will however show you the doctine I follow;
Pr 4:2
For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.
Isa 29:24
They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine
Isa 30:1
¶ Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:
Joh 7:16
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
Joh 7:17
If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
and what is the will of GOD?
Mt 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mt 22:38
This is the first and great commandment.
Mt 22:39
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mt 22:40
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
I notice that you give nothing toward proving your words about my posts (tho I provide many scriptures to prove my words) and just denying what I say doesn't prove anything to me nor should it convince anyone else, I ask that you provide some form of proof that I am wrong otherwise the argument ends.
"the world is flat, no the world is round,no the world is flat, no the world is round,no the world is flat, no the world is round,no the world is flat, no the world is round.............."
dan,
I believe some of the introductory statements more than some of the author's. The subjest isn't very interesting to me, so I'll just point to a few factors I noted in passing.
Sabbath of creation
The creation story can't be used, for how could there be morning and evening until the sun was created? Some ancient Jewish groups indeed started their Sabbath counting on Wednesday. The author's invention of another light source than the sun (towards the end of the article) is not convincing. - One Jewish sect used a sun calendar, opposing the normal Jewish moon calendar. From the very start we encounter difficulties and different opinions.
The paragraph on manna is taken as proof for that Sabbath was on the days 15 and 22. The only thing that is stated in this story is that following the day before Sabbath ("the sixth day"), the Sabbah day comes. Not very surprising. The "sixth day" is the name of the weekday, and doesn't refer to the number of days after having camped. This is the way it was at that time, and still is in most languages in the western Mediterranean.
Another fact distorting the diagrams is that Muslim and Jewish days begin at sunset. The author mentions this problem only at the very end.
In which direction do you think I am biased, when I say that it is impossible to project today's weekday names back to the OT stories and vice versa, and what matters to believers today is the accepted practice of their respectice communities?
I believe some of the introductory statements more than some of the author's. The subjest isn't very interesting to me, so I'll just point to a few factors I noted in passing.
Sabbath of creation
The creation story can't be used, for how could there be morning and evening until the sun was created? Some ancient Jewish groups indeed started their Sabbath counting on Wednesday. The author's invention of another light source than the sun (towards the end of the article) is not convincing. - One Jewish sect used a sun calendar, opposing the normal Jewish moon calendar. From the very start we encounter difficulties and different opinions.
The paragraph on manna is taken as proof for that Sabbath was on the days 15 and 22. The only thing that is stated in this story is that following the day before Sabbath ("the sixth day"), the Sabbah day comes. Not very surprising. The "sixth day" is the name of the weekday, and doesn't refer to the number of days after having camped. This is the way it was at that time, and still is in most languages in the western Mediterranean.
Another fact distorting the diagrams is that Muslim and Jewish days begin at sunset. The author mentions this problem only at the very end.
In which direction do you think I am biased, when I say that it is impossible to project today's weekday names back to the OT stories and vice versa, and what matters to believers today is the accepted practice of their respectice communities?
chamberlain
Member
Before you guys get to heated up.
What do Jehovas witness actually believe?
Excuse my ignorrance.
What do Jehovas witness actually believe?
Excuse my ignorrance.
KBC1963
Active Member
Doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses;
The Witnesses reject the doctrine of the Trinity, they believe that Jehovah God (the Father) and Jesus (the Son) are distinct spirit persons, and that the holy spirit is no person, but God's active force. (GOOD)
They categorically reject the use of images or icons in worship. (VERY GOOD)
They believe that Jesus Christ was resurrected three days after his sacrifice into his original spirit form, and that he ascended to heaven in spirit form. (ERROR)
They believe God's Kingdom to be a real heavenly government, established in 1914 and headed by Jesus Christ, along with a group ('The Anointed Ones') selected by The Holy Spirit of 144,000 faithful Christians (ERROR)
They favor a literal interpretation of most Bible passages, except in cases where the context very strongly suggests otherwise (GOOD)
They believe that salvation is a free gift from God, but that works are necessary, since faith without them is dead. Such works are viewed as evidence that a person's faith is genuine. They reject the concept "once saved, always saved," believing that salvation will be granted to those who endure faithfully until the end. (VERY GOOD)
They do not believe in an immortal soul that is separate from the body, but rather understand the hebrew word nephesh and the Greek word psyche - both often translated as soul - to mean the person as one indivisible whole. (GOOD)
A seemingly distinctive feature of Jehovah's Witnesses' doctrine is their belief that the earth will continue to exist and be inhabited forever. (ERROR)
Jehovah's Witnesses reject premarital sex (fornication), adultery and polygamy as immoral. They consider divorce permissible, but not automatic, if a spouse has been unfaithful. They distinguish between homosexual impulses, and homosexual activity, the latter being considered a gross sin. All are encouraged to fight against any impulse to violate the Bible's standards in sexual matters.
Similarly, Witnesses are expected to remain free from drunkenness, smoking, recreational use of drugs, all forms of gambling. (VERY GOOD)
Howeverthey have fallen victim to the power of religious traditions in varying degrees and tho I personally have a strong liking for all the things they do have right it is the few errors that they stick with that keeps me from joining with them (ie) - believing CHRISTS government is already setup since 1914 and believing that sunday is the sabbath and that Jesus Christ was resurrected three days after his sacrifice into his original spirit form, and that he ascended to heaven in spirit form.
Ardhanariswar
I'm back!
i believe any religion that makes (or brainwashes) its followers to go around and advertise it like a pop drink is in error. its rude to reduce God for power and money.
One fact about JV's is that they oppose blood transfusions. They rather die than receive one. The reason is that they equate transfusions with eating of blood, which is forbidden in the Bible. If an adult in need of a transfusion wants to commit suicide is one thing, but they try to keep their children from life-saving transfusions. In Sweden, parents are not allowed to murder their children in that way, so when needed, children are taken into temporary custody and are saved. A large number of Jehovahs Witnesses, including many children, have died due to their loyalty to the Watchtower Society. The May 22, 1994, issue of Awake! [their magazine] featured the stories of five children who died after refusing blood transfusions.
chamberlain
Member
Thanks KBC and anders for filling my in.
I really appreciate this.
what do you guys believe in?
If you don't mind me prying!
Many thanks
Chamberlain
I really appreciate this.
what do you guys believe in?
If you don't mind me prying!
Many thanks
Chamberlain
I am mostly influenced by Taoism, Buddhism and Sikhism, in that order. I don't believe in any supernatural power, so that fact plus the general tolerance and humanism in Taoism suits me. I don't believe in any kind of re-birth, not once as in Christianity, not many times as in many "Eastern" religions, but Buddhism adds even more non-violence, and Sikhism has a very outspoken and practiced equality between people of all walks of life, sexes, colours and religions.
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
My grandfathers siblings turned jehoveh's witnesses, and were no longer allowed to be associated with my grandfather and my great uncle for they stayed catholic. The jehoveh's split up my family, I now know only a third of my whole family because of them. Even as my great great grandmother died, none of them came, none of them were allowed to. I very much do not like the Jehoveh's. I have a couple friends that grew up in a jehoveh's witness home. They all now hate their parents and grand parents. What kind of religion is this. And its not the normal kind of hate you get from teenagers, they hate them because of the religious influence they try to put on their lives. This is not what one should get out of a religion or any type of spirituality.
That was a pretty comprehensive list, KBC; but there's one thing that's not 100% accurate. They believe the earth will be inhabited for only 1,000 years after the judgment. Other than that you've covered almost everything.
There are many things about their doctrine that is hard to understand, but they should be respected. They are good people. The thing with blood transfusions is interesting. Some say an infusion isn't the same as eating or drinking blood; but they answer that it would be just as bad to inject alcohol or drugs directly into the blood stream as by traditional means of consumption, so blood must be categorized in the same way. It makes sense, but I don't agree with the doctrine altogether.
I do believe, however, that if a person is willing to die for their faith they are worthy at least of our respect. I think it unnecessary to deride and make fun of people who would give their lives for what they believe, whatsoever that belief may be.
There are many things about their doctrine that is hard to understand, but they should be respected. They are good people. The thing with blood transfusions is interesting. Some say an infusion isn't the same as eating or drinking blood; but they answer that it would be just as bad to inject alcohol or drugs directly into the blood stream as by traditional means of consumption, so blood must be categorized in the same way. It makes sense, but I don't agree with the doctrine altogether.
I do believe, however, that if a person is willing to die for their faith they are worthy at least of our respect. I think it unnecessary to deride and make fun of people who would give their lives for what they believe, whatsoever that belief may be.
KBC1963
Active Member
Hmmm that is a tuff question, I do believe in GOD and CHRIST and that CHRIST came in the flesh, but I guess if my belief is to be sumed up it is this: I believe that the original covenant with israel was not absolutely done away with but rather fullfilled in that under thier agreement they had to follow many laws of sacrifice in order to be forgiven thier sins until CHRIST came and fullfilled the requirement for sin and at that time, only the sacrificial laws were done away with but, the basis of thier covenant the ten commandments were and always will be in effect.
Note that the only time in biblical history that GOD personally took part in the founding of a set of rules for the government of his people he showed its importance as is shown in the following verse:
Ex 31:18
And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
since this is the basis of GOD's government it will never change;
Mt 5:17
¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mt 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mt 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 5:20
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
And not only must we obey those laws in our actions we must also obey them in our mind as you can see from the following verse:
Mt 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
So essentially we must obey his commandments in our bodies and heart to the best of our ability and also believe that CHRIST is our sacrifice for our past sins and any of those we don't intentionally commit once saved.
As of this moment one of the very few places that I haven't found fault with is Stewarton bible school but I am still investigating their doctrines.
KBC1963
Active Member
Dan,
Hope I didn't step on any toes there, I just happened to have the lists of all religions beliefs handy and it was only a quick second to copy paste and I do try to be accurate in all things to the best of my ability.
I'm not sure about the thousand year thing tho as the list was directly taken from a J.W. site about a year ago but who knows being human errors can happen.