Jehvah's Witnesses

[marybeth]

My mother, who was raised by Jehovah's Witnesses, says that all Jehovah's Witnesses are going to hell because they do not believe that Christ is God. But the Bible says "If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Rom. 10:9.
It does not say that you have to believe that Jesus is God to be saved, according to my understanding.
I have an aunt that my mother says is not saved, because she is a Jehovah's Witness. I said, "I think that by this verse, mother, that she is saved. My mother just about had a cow, she started spluttering, and getting all red in the face, just because of my 'heresy' of saying that her sister was a Christian.

 

[John Martin]

My mother, who was raised by Jehovah's Witnesses, says that all Jehovah's Witnesses are going to hell because they do not believe that Christ is God. But the Bible says "If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Rom. 10:9.
It does not say that you have to believe that Jesus is God to be saved, according to my understanding.
I have an aunt that my mother says is not saved, because she is a Jehovah's Witness. I said, "I think that by this verse, mother, that she is saved. My mother just about had a cow, she started spluttering, and getting all red in the face, just because of my 'heresy' of saying that her sister was a Christian.

Salvation is a free gift of God. When God creates us he already saves. For God creating and saving are one action. No one will go to hell because one does not believe in something and no one goes to heaven because one believes in something. Everyone is in the womb of God. But we are not aware of this truth. Jesus came to tell this truth and asked people to realize this truth. The gospel of Mark says: When John was arrested Jesus came into Galilee preaching the good news from God and saying: The time is fulfilled; the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the good news:

'The kingdom of God is at hand' has two aspects: objective and subjective. Objectively it means that God is everywhere and everyone and everything is in God. Subjectively it means ultimately God alone is: everyone comes from God and returns to God. It is to realize our oneness with God. Jesus said: the Father and I ' are one. This is the experience of the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God also means to transform our life into life of God and transform our actions into actions of God. Jesus said:the works that I do are not my own but the Father who dwells in me does his works'. This is the statement of the one who finds the kingdom of God.
Repent means: realize this universal truth, be aware of this truth, discover this truth.
Believe in the good news:before we discover we need to believe that God is everywhere and we are all in God and then try to realize this truth.
To believe in Jesus Christ is to believe in the message that he proclaimed. To believe that Jesus Christ is Lord is to believe that we are also one with God. To believe that Jesus is risenis to believe that our life does not come to an end with physical death but there is eternal life.
If we do not realize the universal presence of God then we live in ignorance and do harm to ourselves and harm to others.
Everyone is already is heaven but everyone first has to believe in it and then realize it through repentance.
Jesus said: the kingdom of God is like a man who found treasure in the field. He went home sold everything and bought that field. To find the treasure is to find our true self which is already saved and which is already in God. We are ignorant of our true self and live from our ignorant self, that we can say is hell, to be outside of God.
A christian is one who believes in the truth told by Jesus: this truth is God is everywhere and everyone is in God. We are ultimately one with God. A Christian tries to realize this truth.

 

[Pegg]

My mother, who was raised by Jehovah's Witnesses, says that all Jehovah's Witnesses are going to hell because they do not believe that Christ is God. But the Bible says "If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Rom. 10:9.
It does not say that you have to believe that Jesus is God to be saved, according to my understanding.
I have an aunt that my mother says is not saved, because she is a Jehovah's Witness. I said, "I think that by this verse, mother, that she is saved. My mother just about had a cow, she started spluttering, and getting all red in the face, just because of my 'heresy' of saying that her sister was a Christian.

dont be too hard on your mother for her strong beliefs...she probably has good intentions and likely really believes what she's been told. If i believed that we were all going to hell (if hell was a real place) because of being a Jehovahs Witnesses, then i'd be angry about it too.


One line of reasoning that has helped many people realise that hell is not a real place is this... Ask your mother this: if one of her children made a bad mistake, would she then lock them in a burning furnace and keep them there forever as a punishment for whatever they did wrong?

Are a few mistakes worth an eternity of suffering and torment? Does the punishment fit the crime? And would a God of love, mercy and compassion really go to such lengths to make his children suffer?


Some people see the injustice in such a punishment when they consider doing it to their own children.

 

[John Martin]

Jesus did not save anyone but by identifying himself with the whole of humanity and the whole of creation he discovered that God has saved everyone already. But human beings are not aware of it. He invited everyone to realize this unconditional love of God. When we live without realizing this truth we live a life against our human dignity and cause harm to others.

 

[kjw47]

Jesus did not save anyone but by identifying himself with the whole of humanity and the whole of creation he discovered that God has saved everyone already. But human beings are not aware of it. He invited everyone to realize this unconditional love of God. When we live without realizing this truth we live a life against our human dignity and cause harm to others.

Good day Mr Martin-- A single teaching( truth) from Jesus proves you have erred in judgement of this issue. Jesus taught-- Cramped is the road that leads to life( eternal) FEW will find it, Many have entered the broad and spacious path that leads to destruction. So its only FEW who get saved. If you believe Jesus.

 

[darrinhart]

Hello,

I'm a newbie and an ex-Jehovah's Witness elder of many years.

Please realize that Jehovah's Witnesses de-emphasize Christ. They worshiped Jesus directly until the 1950's, but then began a switch to Jehovah that continues to this day. In addition, they don't believe anyone can have a relationship with God unless they recognize the 'faithful and discreet slave' first....which is currently the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. If you don't have a relationship with them... you cannot be in a relationship with God.

It is for this reason that many consider Jehovah's Witnesses a cult.

I hope this helps!

Darrin Hart

 

[Pegg]

Its important for people to remember that when Moses led Isreal out of Egypt, the isrealites had to obey the voice of Moses and enter the covenant 'through' Moses.

Any who rejected Moses were rejected by God. This is very significant!

 

[Xian Catalyst]

My mother, who was raised by Jehovah's Witnesses, says that all Jehovah's Witnesses are going to hell because they do not believe that Christ is God. But the Bible says "If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Rom. 10:9.
It does not say that you have to believe that Jesus is God to be saved, according to my understanding.
I have an aunt that my mother says is not saved, because she is a Jehovah's Witness. I said, "I think that by this verse, mother, that she is saved. My mother just about had a cow, she started spluttering, and getting all red in the face, just because of my 'heresy' of saying that her sister was a Christian.

God never asked me who was saved and who wasn't. Good thing I'd have a chronic case of anxiety then....

There is NOTHING that says you have to believe Jesus is God to be saved. Nothing. Not anywhere. Anyone claiming it does has a different Bible and God than I do.

 

[kjw47]

Hello,

I'm a newbie and an ex-Jehovah's Witness elder of many years.

Please realize that Jehovah's Witnesses de-emphasize Christ. They worshiped Jesus directly until the 1950's, but then began a switch to Jehovah that continues to this day. In addition, they don't believe anyone can have a relationship with God unless they recognize the 'faithful and discreet slave' first....which is currently the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. If you don't have a relationship with them... you cannot be in a relationship with God.

It is for this reason that many consider Jehovah's Witnesses a cult.

I hope this helps!

Darrin Hart

Only ones who do not know Jesus' truths call the JW religion a cult--when in fact it is they who are in the religionsssssssssssssssssssssssssssss that are the true cult. I know for a fact the JW teachers teach Jesus' truths. Like this very important one from Jesus all need to be doing every single day of their lives but are not taught to do these, except by the JW teachers( GB)-----

Therefore, keep on seeking first the kingdom and his ( YHWH)(Jehovah) righteousness and all these other things will be added( sustenance, covering, spirituality)

funny how you forgot this major teaching. When Jesus said first = ultra important for each individual to be doing these two things daily--and its a 100% guarantee--Jesus' teachers make sure these two things are deep into each ones heart.

 

[jtartar]

My mother, who was raised by Jehovah's Witnesses, says that all Jehovah's Witnesses are going to hell because they do not believe that Christ is God. But the Bible says "If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Rom. 10:9.
It does not say that you have to believe that Jesus is God to be saved, according to my understanding.
I have an aunt that my mother says is not saved, because she is a Jehovah's Witness. I said, "I think that by this verse, mother, that she is saved. My mother just about had a cow, she started spluttering, and getting all red in the face, just because of my 'heresy' of saying that her sister was a Christian.

Marybeth,
I can think of about 30 scriptures that show that Jesus is not THE God, whose Personal name is Jehovah. This name was YHWH, in the Hebrew Scriptures, and was in the Bible over 7,000 times. Most of the modern Bibles have removed God's Proper name from His own book, and have substituted Titles, as LORD, or GOD, all in capital letters, where God's name appeared in the Original Autographs.
Tell your mother to consider what is recorded at Dan 7:13,4. Here Jesus is brought in before The a Throne of God, and Jesus receives, from God, the power of a Kingdom. How could this be, when they are clearly two deferent people??
Another scripture shows the same thing, Rev 5:1-8, where God is sitting on the Throne with a book in His right hand, and Jesus come in before the Throne and takes the book from God. Impossible to be the same person.
There are many others that can also be used as proof texts, Matt 3:17, Mark 9:2-8, John 12:27,28. In each of these occasions Jesus was on earth and his Father spoke to him from heaven. This was no deception, because there was no deception in Jesus' mouth, 1Pet 2:21,22. Remember God hates deception, Ps 5:6.
At John 14:28, Jesus says that the Father is greater than he is.
At John 20:17, Jesus says that The Father is his Father and his God. Who would say that they are the same as their Father or their God??
Another scripture is a proof text, John 17:3, where Jesus says that it is everlasting life to learn about The Only True God, and the one that He sent forth, Jesus Christ.
If you claim that Jesus and God Almighty are the same people, how could one know something that the other does not know, Matt 24:36, or how could one own something and the other does not? Matt 20:23.
Jesus said that he lives because of a The Father, John 6:57.
The Bible actually tells us, in two places, that God created Jesus, Col 1:15, Rev 3:14, 1:5.
I could mention other proofs, but if a person believes what the Bible says, this will be enough.

 

[Norrin-6-]

My mother, who was raised by Jehovah's Witnesses, says that all Jehovah's Witnesses are going to hell because they do not believe that Christ is God. But the Bible says "If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Rom. 10:9.
It does not say that you have to believe that Jesus is God to be saved, according to my understanding.
I have an aunt that my mother says is not saved, because she is a Jehovah's Witness. I said, "I think that by this verse, mother, that she is saved. My mother just about had a cow, she started spluttering, and getting all red in the face, just because of my 'heresy' of saying that her sister was a Christian.

I would just like to point out that the word kurios, the word translated Lord in the quote you gave, is the same word the used in the Septuagint (Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible) used to translate the tetragrammaton (YHVH = the name of God). :thud:

 

[Simplelogic]

Christianity has long touted a claim to exclusive salvation via belief in Jesus as God. A concept which Jesus never preached! Though many Christians are good hearted and honest people, this doctrine continues to create an arrogant mindset within the consciousness of Christians in general. It forces the majority of Christians to believe that people of any other faith or doctrine are headed for hell forever, simply because they don't have the right mental belief concerning Jesus. This is truly the opposite of Jesus' message concerning salvation.

Jesus taught repentance from SIN and turning to God is what leads to life. Every parable and teaching of Jesus completely destroys the mainstream Christian concept of salvation via "belief" in Jesus' deity. It does not matter whether you are a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist or Athiest!! If a man sincerely turns from his evil and chooses to do good in this life, he will be rewarded! The man who has repented is the man who is truly following Jesus. Not the man who claims he is "saved" because of his mental beliefs.

 

[savagewind]

Christianity has long touted a claim to exclusive salvation via belief in Jesus as God. A concept which Jesus never preached! Though many Christians are good hearted and honest people, this doctrine continues to create an arrogant mindset within the consciousness of Christians in general. It forces the majority of Christians to believe that people of any other faith or doctrine are headed for hell forever, simply because they don't have the right mental belief concerning Jesus. This is truly the opposite of Jesus' message concerning salvation.

Jesus taught repentance from SIN and turning to God is what leads to life. Every parable and teaching of Jesus completely destroys the mainstream Christian concept of salvation via "belief" in Jesus' deity. It does not matter whether you are a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist or Athiest!! If a man sincerely turns from his evil and chooses to do good in this life, he will be rewarded! The man who has repented is the man who is truly following Jesus. Not the man who claims he is "saved" because of his mental beliefs.

I agree.

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Galatians 6:7

As I have observed, those who plow evil and those who sow trouble reap it.Job 4:8

Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously.2 Corinthians 9:6

[I am sure "whoever" does not mean "he who believes Jesus is God".]

The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them. Ezekiel 18:20

It is acts which determine righteousness or guilt, not belief.

 

[Simplelogic]

I agree.

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Galatians 6:7

As I have observed, those who plow evil and those who sow trouble reap it.Job 4:8

Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously.2 Corinthians 9:6

[I am sure "whoever" does not mean "he who believes Jesus is God".]

The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them. Ezekiel 18:20

It is acts which determine righteousness or guilt, not belief.

I completely agree with you my friend. Well said. Though I would challenge you on the notion that Paul taught the same as what you are saying.

 

[savagewind]

I completely agree with you my friend. Well said. Though I would challenge you on the notion that Paul taught the same as what you are saying.

Thank you. I think salvation (not earned) and righteousness are not the same. I imagine your comment means Paul taught of a salvation apart from works. I tend to believe him. It is not of my own volition that I may approach God's throne. It is only by Jesus Christ that I can.

 

[Clear]

Jtartar said : “ I can think of about 30 scriptures that show that Jesus is not THE God, whose Personal name is Jehovah. This name was YHWH, in the Hebrew Scriptures, and was in the Bible over 7,000 times. Most of the modern Bibles have removed God's Proper name from His own book, and have substituted Titles, as LORD, or GOD, all in capital letters, where God's name appeared in the Original Autographs. “(post #10)

Hi Jtartar :

1) I recently had a discussion with the Jehovahs’ Witness, Pegg who explained the Jehovahs Witness position that the first God (the Father) created the second God (the Son – Jesus) . Pegg Explained that the first God (the Father) assigned roles to the second God (the Son – Jesus).

For example, Pegg said : that Jesus, as a God in the Old Testament “.. was the one assigned to lead the Isrealites in the wilderness and he is Gods foremost representative and the one who delivers Gods Word....which is why he is known as 'the Word' “.

If this position is consistent with Jehovahs Witness Theology, can you (or any other Jehovahs Witness) give us 10 specific examples from the old testament text where Jesus, as God #2 (the Son) interacts with individuals in the text; that is, interactions that are the Son-God interacting and not the Father-God who is interacting.

I am asking this so as to form a framework for understanding the specific role God #1 (the Father) gives to God #2 (the Son) in the context of Jehovahs Witness theology and if there is a rule as to how they differentiate the two in certain textual situations.

Thanks in advance for any information on this specific point.

2) As an aside, we might all keep in mind that references to “original” autographs and what they said are hypothetical since we do not have any autographs from Moses or Isaiah or any Prophet that has lived in old testament times. We have various later versions of early texts such as the Dead Sea Scrolls deposited approx. 70 a.d., and these tell us what that specific version said in 70 a.d., but but we do not know what the earliest texts that Moses and other Prophets wrote, actually said.

Clear
σεεινεω

 

[Johnlove]

No where in scripture does it say that being saved means one will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Here is what Jesus said would get one into heaven.

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”


Jesus is God, scripture tells us that is true. Also Jesus told me he is God.

My witness is that I have seen Jesus, and he has called me out by name.

 

[Simplelogic]

No where in scripture does it say that being saved means one will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Here is what Jesus said would get one into heaven.

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”


Jesus is God, scripture tells us that is true. Also Jesus told me he is God.

My witness is that I have seen Jesus, and he has called me out by name.

Are you claiming to have literally met Jesus?

 

[Johnlove]

Are you claiming to have literally met Jesus?

Yes!

 

[Simplelogic]

Yes!

Then I am sorry my friend. Jesus himself declares you a false witness.


4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. Matt 24:4-6

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matt 24: 26-27

Jesus is telling us not to listen to people who say they have physically met Jesus in private. Jesus says these men are deceivers or false prophets. Jesus clearly states that when he comes back to earth EVERYONE WILL KNOW IT. It won't be a private thing. Here is another verse which proves this:

7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Rev 1: 7

So Jesus says not to listen to those who say they have met Jesus "in the wilderness" (like Paul did on the road to Damascus) or in "secret chambers" which means people like you who claim they have met Jesus in private.