Jerusalem is an Arabic City?

[Kemosloby]

This question is faulty as not all Palestinians are Arab, not even in Jerusalem.

I get the impression that you have absolutely no idea about the history of the theft of Palestine and subsequent annexation followed by gross human rights violations, daily, and oppression that does not get reported on TV.

But you are on the internet, where all the information is. Why do you care what people think about a controversial topic, and why these people specifically?

If you want to conduct a survey it's been done and is pointless unless you include the Palestinians themselves, you know the actual victims of Israeli racism, I watched a video the other day made by a Mizrahi (Middle Eastern non European descent) Jew and they are treat inferior by the Ashkenazi, who have all the power in the region, and one clip was of Israelis in a large group chanting "Death to all Arabs."

Jerusalem is a Palestinian city which is 3 areas, Gaza, the West Bank and a part of Jerusalem, east I believe.

But the whole country is Palestine to me as there is no justification for stealing an entire country, which had Jewish citizens, who had lived in peace with the Muslims, before it was taken by European Jews, stolen.

This should not be news to you, I feel bad for you for being so clueless that you need to ask random people who are usually just as clueless and that you think there is a good reason to ask them when history is online for free.

By all means ask people their opinions, which are usually based on lies, but I think that the human rights violations against Palestinians are more important than what the President says is the capital of a country that is not his, he might as well just say that "death to Arabs" himself, because that's what he Ashkenazi teach their children, and what support for Israel is.

I've always thought of Jerusalem as a Jewish city, till the internet and I find out there are Palestinians living there. Why don't the Palestinians move their capital to Nablus. Christians have never heard of Nablus. If the Jews tried to take Nablus with Palestinians living there the Christians would be like no way, what the heck do the Jews need Nablus for...??

 

[Muslim-UK]

The Qur'an is a book of tribalistic perspective, constantly making meaningful distinctions between people and insisting on the need to favor fellow believers in Islaam over anyone else - supposedly in obedience to a supreme all-creator, no less.

That is simply not at all healthy.

Actually the Qur'an explains we were all created, as was everything we see in the Universe. Explains how every soul that ever has, does and ever will exist, all stood before the Creator and affirmed we would acknowledge Him. The Qur'an asks mankind to reflect and ponder of our existence, explains the meaning of life and invites ALL people to come to truth. It lays down a way of living that is beneficial and clearly prohibits those things which are harmful to us.

The Qur'an pours cold water on tribalism and explains in the eyes of the Creator no race or colour is above another, and one's measure is based on the individuals level of faith. Those who love and obey GOD are closest to the Creator because they will follow the commandments, and love for their neighbour what they love for themselves, spend of their wealth on the poor and needy, care for the young and the elderly and be upright members of society.

It's true, it does encourage believers to befriend one another, (protecting our Religion from corruption) and treat fellow Muslims as being part of the same body, so pain in one part is felt across the body, encouraging us to rush to defend the downtrodden and oppressed. All the while the Qur'an continues to invite non believers, so they might succeed both in this life and the next. It also gives numerous warnings to non believers and believers alike of a day when every soul will be held to account for how it conducted itself here on Earth, leading to eternal salvation or eternal punishment.

The Qur'an has no issue with believers interacting with and being fiends with non believers. It encourages us to engage with and invite non believers to truth.

GOD is very fair, He loves all of creation and wants the best for us, but hates our evil actions which ultimately only harm us.

They do indeed. Most people do. There are many and powerful moral motivators acting on all of us.

The Qur'an and Islaam, however, are far more hindrance than help on that matter.

Islaam is very appropriately named. It is indeed all about surrender to doctrine, which opposes moral development, responsibility of belief and even the ability to discern the worth of situations and choices.

The moral compass of Islam is firmly anchored for believers and serves to be suitable for all times. The Laws handed down for believers come from the Creator, so who better to guide us?

Where do your morals come from?

True enough. But few existing doctrines emphasize it nearly as much, or fail to compensate its dangers and pitfalls nearly as much as Islaam does.

Most Muslims seem to be literally unprepared to acknowledge, let alone address, the necessary objections from us "kuffar".

In that respect Islaam is very remarkable indeed, and that would be true even if it did not have such impressive demographic abrangence.

Qur'an said, Islam would spread across the Globe and the masses would embrace it. In the next 30 years 1 in 4 will be a Muslim, and the following 100 years will see that number grow beyond anything we can imagine. The objections from you 'kuffar' will diminish the more you are in contact with Muslims. Failing that, I'm sure die hard Islamophobes will likely buy their own Island from where they can ban any Muslim immigrants and live in their ignorant bliss amongst themselves.

That is one reason why I don't call Islaam a religion. It is sorely incomplete, failing to build the necessary tools to handle god-beliefs without being overwhelmed and corrupted by that belief.

True religions, when they are theistic, soon learn to develop such tools, for they are very necessary indeed. Hinduism, Shinto, Paganism and Judaism come to mind.

The Oxford online Dictionary defines Religion as;

"The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."

Islam is the most complete Religion on Earth, covering all facets of life both private and public. It encourages followers to not just blindly follow, but to think, reflect, investigate the natural World, to do science, to seek out cures and to be a productive human in any way possible to ensure mankind as a whole is able to move forward in a constructive manner.

How are any of the Religions you mentioned more in keeping with the Oxford Dictionary definition than Islam?

 

[Muslim-UK]

I've always thought of Jerusalem as a Jewish city, till the internet and I find out there are Palestinians living there. Why don't the Palestinians move their capital to Nablus. Christians have never heard of Nablus. If the Jews tried to take Nablus with Palestinians living there the Christians would be like no way, what the heck do the Jews need Nablus for...??

Your Bible says for their rebellion, for their killing of Prophets, for their rejection of GOD's commandments they would be banished from Palestine and be replaced with a people better than them in the sight of GOD. Now given they continue to rebel in their rejection of his Prophets, namely Jesus and Muhammad pbut, one has to ask who is aiding them in their continued rebellion?

Btw the majority of people living in Palestine claiming to be 'Jews' come from Eastern Europe and have no connection to the land, unlike the Christians and Muslims who've lived there together for over 1,400 years along with some of the true Jews.

 

[Kemosloby]

Your Bible says for their rebellion, for their killing of Prophets, for their rejection of GOD's commandments they would be banished from Palestine and be replaced with a people better than them in the sight of GOD. Now given they continue to rebel in their rejection of his Prophets, namely Jesus and Muhammad pbut, one has to ask who is aiding them in their continued rebellion?

Btw the majority of people living in Palestine claiming to be 'Jews' come from Eastern Europe and have no connection to the land, unlike the Christians and Muslims who've lived there together for over 1,400 years along with some of the true Jews.

Maybe it's these new Jews from Eastern Europe he is replacing the old Jews with?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

the majority of people living in Palestine claiming to be 'Jews' come from Eastern Europe and have no connection to the land

Wrong: Genetic studies on Jews - Wikipedia

 

[Ysa7al1Masih]

I've always thought of Jerusalem as a Jewish city, till the internet and I find out there are Palestinians living there. Why don't the Palestinians move their capital to Nablus. Christians have never heard of Nablus. If the Jews tried to take Nablus with Palestinians living there the Christians would be like no way, what the heck do the Jews need Nablus for...??

You can think of it as Jewish because you are not the victim of the Israeli armed forces.

Further it was a Judean city 2,000 years ago before the term Jewish existed, there were sects of Judahites or followers of Judah who is one of 12 sons of Israel.

There were many religions and not all Judeans were from Jerusalem which was also the HQ of the first Jewish Nazarenes before Pauline Christianity, before Paul, one could thus say it's a Christian city and God took the land from them like with Babylon, which is why Rome was called that.

For 1947 it was not a Jewish anything, and if not for Umar and Islam about 600 years later they would not have been able to live in Jerusalem and because of a Jewish convert to Islam the first Masjid was built where Herods Temple once sat.

So one could easily call it a Muslim city and being Palestinian territory legally still is, except west Jerusalem.

 

[LuisDantas]

Actually the Qur'an explains we were all created, as was everything we see in the Universe. Explains how every soul that ever has, does and ever will exist, all stood before the Creator and affirmed we would acknowledge Him. The Qur'an asks mankind to reflect and ponder of our existence, explains the meaning of life and invites ALL people to come to truth. It lays down a way of living that is beneficial and clearly prohibits those things which are harmful to us.

The Qur'an pours cold water on tribalism and explains in the eyes of the Creator no race or colour is above another, and one's measure is based on the individuals level of faith. Those who love and obey GOD are closest to the Creator because they will follow the commandments, and love for their neighbour what they love for themselves, spend of their wealth on the poor and needy, care for the young and the elderly and be upright members of society.

It's true, it does encourage believers to befriend one another, (protecting our Religion from corruption) and treat fellow Muslims as being part of the same body, so pain in one part is felt across the body, encouraging us to rush to defend the downtrodden and oppressed. All the while the Qur'an continues to invite non believers, so they might succeed both in this life and the next. It also gives numerous warnings to non believers and believers alike of a day when every soul will be held to account for how it conducted itself here on Earth, leading to eternal salvation or eternal punishment.

Quite a lot of bold, unsupported belief. While you are entitled to it far as it goes, you should accept the responsibility that comes with such belief.

The Qur'an has no issue with believers interacting with and being fiends with non believers.

Except that it does, as I am certain that you know all too well.

See for instance the compilation at Muslims Befriending Christians and Jews

Quranists and Ahmadiyas, I am told, try their hardest to deny those verses, but that is ultimately futile for people who want to declare themselves Muslims.

It encourages us to engage with and invite non believers to truth.

Not "truth". Indoctrination. Something else entirely.

GOD is very fair, He loves all of creation and wants the best for us, but hates our evil actions which ultimately only harm us.

If you say so. That would of course bring the question of why people believe in the Qur'an, but I guess that is not my problem exactly.

The moral compass of Islam is firmly anchored for believers and serves to be suitable for all times.

And yet it could not even avoid the Battle of the Camel and all the conflict that followed since even between Muslims. There is therefore a very legitimate question of how useful Islaam is for that purpose. Apparently not very much at all.

The Laws handed down for believers come from the Creator, so who better to guide us?

The Qur'an claims to come from a Creator God, but that truly means nothing. The text should stand or fall on its own merits - and does.

Where do your morals come from?

A variety of sources, mainly learning from others and considering how and whether their lessons apply to me. I have a particular fondness for Interdependent Origination (a basic Buddhist teaching) and Utilitarianism.

Qur'an said, Islam would spread across the Globe and the masses would embrace it. In the next 30 years 1 in 4 will be a Muslim, and the following 100 years will see that number grow beyond anything we can imagine.

That can be avoided, and hopefully will.

The objections from you 'kuffar' will diminish the more you are in contact with Muslims.

Apparently not, if the last few years are any indication.

Failing that, I'm sure die hard Islamophobes will likely buy their own Island from where they can ban any Muslim immigrants and live in their ignorant bliss amongst themselves.

I would have to watch the movie to have an opinion, I suppose.

The Oxford online Dictionary defines Religion as;

"The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."

Islam is the most complete Religion on Earth, covering all facets of life both private and public. It encourages followers to not just blindly follow, but to think, reflect, investigate the natural World, to do science, to seek out cures and to be a productive human in any way possible to ensure mankind as a whole is able to move forward in a constructive manner.

If only. Any true religion has better results to show - as one would of course expect.

How are any of the Religions you mentioned more in keeping with the Oxford Dictionary definition than Islam?

Not that the Dictionary has any particular authority on the matter, but really, in all aspects that I can think of.

 

[Ysa7al1Masih]

There were also non Judahite Israelites called Samaritans and who don't descend from Judah and aren't Jewish but believe in the Torah.

It never was a Jewish city, never will be, regardless of your thoughts, which show a lack of knowledge of history or a lack of concern for the people who had their literal houses stolen and given to non Semitic Ashkenazi Jews who obviously hate that fact, but enough admit it.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Wrong: Genetic studies on Jews - Wikipedia

Accepting the theories in that article at face value, do you accept the descendants of the Canaanites also have there right to live there too?

 

[Kemosloby]

You can think of it as Jewish because you are not the victim of the Israeli armed forces.

Further it was a Judean city 2,000 years ago before the term Jewish existed, there were sects of Judahites or followers of Judah who is one of 12 sons of Israel.

There were many religions and not all Judeans were from Jerusalem which was also the HQ of the first Jewish Nazarenes before Pauline Christianity, before Paul, one could thus say it's a Christian city and God took the land from them like with Babylon, which is why Rome was called that.

For 1947 it was not a Jewish anything, and if not for Umar and Islam about 600 years later they would not have been able to live in Jerusalem and because of a Jewish convert to Islam the first Masjid was built where Herods Temple once sat.

So one could easily call it a Muslim city and being Palestinian territory legally still is, except west Jerusalem.

West Jerusalem was once legally a Palestinian territory?

Paul never made Jerusalem a "Christian" city. Paul identified himself as a Jew, a Roman citizen and a Christian all at the same time. When Paul went to Jerusalem he gave all the money he'd collected to the Jewish Priests at the Jewish Temple as a donation to the poor of his nation.

Acts 21:39
But Paul answered, "I am a Jew from Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no ordinary city. Now I beg you to allow me to speak to the people."

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Accepting the theories in that article at face value, do you accept the descendants of the Canaanites also have there right to live there too?

Jews are the descendents of the Canaanites. And genetic studies aren't "theories".

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What was it that Hitler objected to regarding the Zionist money lending machine?

Wow! Spoken like a true neo-Nazi!

 

[Muslim-UK]

Except that it does, as I am certain that you know all too well.

See for instance the compilation at Muslims Befriending Christians and Jews

From your link it says; "Muslims in heaven will amuse themselves by looking down on non-Muslims in Hell and mocking them while they are being tortured (see 22:19-22)."

Can you show me where it says that?

22:19
These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water

22:20
By which is melted that within their bellies and [their] skins.

22:21
And for [striking] them are maces of iron.

22:22
Every time they want to get out of Hellfire from anguish, they will be returned to it, and [it will be said], "Taste the punishment of the Burning Fire!"

Quranists and Ahmadiyas, I am told, try their hardest to deny those verses, but that is ultimately futile for people who want to declare themselves Muslims.

Why would anyone deny the verses, the context makes it abundantly clear, they are spot on.

60:8 Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

And yet it could not even avoid the Battle of the Camel and all the conflict that followed since even between Muslims. There is therefore a very legitimate question of how useful Islaam is for that purpose. Apparently not very much at all.

Sorry to break the news, but people will always disagree even if they claim to follow the same religion, that's just how mankind is. Look at your own moral compass, you've shown you are happy to post misleading information from a hate site.

The Qur'an claims to come from a Creator God, but that truly means nothing. The text should stand or fall on its own merits - and does.

It falls in your eyes, but that's hardly surprising given where you choose to get your information from.

Where did the author of the Qur'an get their information from?

41.11 Then He directed himself to the Heaven when it was smoke, and then said to it and to Earth: "Come willingly or by force" they said "We do come willingly"

21.30 Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the Earth were meshed together then We ripped them apart? And then We made of water everything living? Would they still not believe?

51.47 And the heaven, We built it with craftsmanship and We are still expanding.

21.104 On the day when We will fold the heaven, like the folder compacts the books, and as We originated the first creation We shall return it; a promise (binding on Us); surely We will deliver.

Within the last 100 years Science has confirmed the Heavens and Earth were one unit before the Big Bang event led to a cosmic smoke and the Universe is still expanding, and will one day lead to the Big Crunch.

A variety of sources, mainly learning from others and considering how and whether their lessons apply to me. I have a particular fondness for Interdependent Origination (a basic Buddhist teaching) and Utilitarianism.

So your moral compass is subjective and open to change based on your whims and desires.

 

[Muslim-UK]

Jews are the descendents of the Canaanites. And genetic studies aren't "theories".

What of the Canaanite descendants who went on to embrace Christianity and Islam?

 

[whitemulberries]

constantly making meaningful distinctions between people

Some specific examples, with references to particular verses in the Qur'an, please, which we can then discuss.

insisting on the need to favor fellow believers in Islaam over anyone else

Nothing wrong with building a community of like-minded people, and protecting that community, particularly in the face of constant attempts to destroy that community, as happened whilst Islam was being born, and is still happening today.

The Qur'an and Islaam, however, are far more hindrance than help on that matter.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion.

Islaam is very appropriately named. It is indeed all about surrender to doctrine

No, surrender of one's self to God.

which opposes moral development, responsibility of belief and even the ability to discern the worth of situations and choices.

Only if the God in question opposes those things, which Allah does not.

But few existing doctrines emphasize it nearly as much, or fail to compensate its dangers and pitfalls nearly as much as Islaam does.

What dangers and pitfalls are you talking about?

Most Muslims seem to be literally unprepared to acknowledge, let alone address, the necessary objections from us "kuffar".

That's not about Islam, though. That's many Muslims' lack of personal, spiritual and economic development (the Muslim community is not what it once was) coupled with a feeling of constantly being hounded by non-Muslims/'the West'.

abrangence

Now there's a word that doesn't get aired very often. If I could 'like' your use of this one word, I would!

I think I would need some specific examples of that happening before I believe that it is happening.

The aforementioned policies that restrict what Muslim women can and can't wear.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

What of the Canaanite descendants who went on to embrace Christianity and Islam?

I don't recall Israeli citizenship being restricted to only Jews.

 

[LuisDantas]

So your moral compass is subjective and open to change based on your whims and desires.

Not really. Morality is personal (not subjective as such) to the extent that it is a property of reason and perception.

I would not exchange it for any scripture, of course. I am sincerely surprised that there are people who do.

 

[LuisDantas]

Some specific examples, with references to particular verses in the Qur'an, please, which we can then discuss.

The link I presented above has enough, I think.

Nothing wrong with building a community of like-minded people, and protecting that community, particularly in the face of constant attempts to destroy that community, as happened whilst Islam was being born, and is still happening today.

Most of the threat to Islaam, through all of its history of over one and a half millennia, comes from within, so that is not at all a convincing line.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion.

Quite so. And the facts support me entirely.

No, surrender of one's self to God.

The same thing.

Only if the God in question opposes those things, which Allah does not.

If only.

What dangers and pitfalls are you talking about?

Those of practice without discernment, of belief without wisdom and questioning.

That's not about Islam, though. That's many Muslims' lack of personal, spiritual and economic development (the Muslim community is not what it once was) coupled with a feeling of constantly being hounded by non-Muslims/'the West'.

Sorry, but I just won't agree. The evidence against your claim is much too overwhelming and keeps growing.

Now there's a word that doesn't get aired very often. If I could 'like' your use of this one word, I would!

Thanks. My vocabulary is unusual in two fairly different languages. I would make a poor spy.

The aforementioned policies that restrict what Muslim women can and can't wear.

Seeing the social problems caused by those Muslims in those places, I don't think I can accept that example as valid.

 

[Muslim-UK]

I don't recall Israeli citizenship being restricted to only Jews.

Why then have they left Millions of displaced Palestinians in limbo in refugee camps in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon contravening U.N resolution 194.

 

[Ysa7al1Masih]

It seems like people are not even aware that it was the Muslims who took Jerusalem back and allowed the Jews to return since Umar as well as live in peace with the protection of the Muslims. They do not know that Coptic Egyptian , Syrian, Jordanian citizens, Christians and Jews, supported and even assisted the Muslims in their conquests because they hated being under the thumb of Melkite Byzantine rule even though they were both Christians, the Christians in the Middle East were Nestorian, Jacobite and Monophysite Christians and treated miserably by the Roman Byzantines.

In Spain the Jews and Arian Christians welcomed and possibly invited them, according to the Jewish Encyclopaedia

SPAIN - JewishEncyclopedia.com

There is evidence preserved by the Christians written in the 7th century by John bar Penkaye that affirms our own literature that states the Muslims were ordered by God to protect their monastic station.

But rather than read history people who do not understand Islam take facts and misrepresent them to make them appear sinister, thinking that dressing modestly and being religious is akin to oppression, but if an American woman wants to wear a head scarf it's just fashion and OK, not realizing that it's a sin to mistreat your wife and not Islamic but seems to happen a lot with American men and women, the number two reason for people in jails today is domestic violence, and women are treated as sex objects, which is more oppression than the Quran allows, tell you that much.

The Muslim women I know would be shocked to "learn" they are oppressed, and Saudi Arabia is Saudi Arabia because Britain gave them Arabia, they are allies of Israel and Britain and recently urged Israel to attack Hezbollah, are not even real Sunnis but Salafists, which is heretical to most other Muslims, which is most Muslims.

I am not going to read any hate speech or misrepresentation of facts, or plain false allegations, so if you plan to ask me something, leave out your typically uneducated opinions or you just won't hear back and I won't care.

I will get a link to that John bar Penkaye text though, maybe even quote the letter from the Jordanian Christians letting the Muslims know that they are far more just and tolerant than the Byzantine Romans who once ruled over them, as I have it and much more to offer.

I might take my time but I will definitely do that, because uneducated people who like to talk trash have nothing to offer facts of recorded history they don't know anything about, and they don't know a thing about a lot of things. Most.