Jerusalem is an Arabic City?

[Ysa7al1Masih]

The link I presented above has enough, I think.



Most of the threat to Islaam, through all of its history of over one and a half millennia, comes from within, so that is not at all a convincing line.


Quite so. And the facts support me entirely.


The same thing.


If only.


Those of practice without discernment, of belief without wisdom and questioning.


Sorry, but I just won't agree. The evidence against your claim is much too overwhelming and keeps growing.



Thanks. My vocabulary is unusual in two fairly different languages. I would make a poor spy.


Seeing the social problems caused by those Muslims in those places, I don't think I can accept that example as valid.

Most people who say things about Islam that are negative are uneducated entirely and rely on Islamophobes, bigots, for their information.

I don't need to read much from you to tell you are more concerned with bashing Islam than you are with the truth, which is that more innocent civilians have been killed by bombs than American soldiers in the past ten years.

If you are trying to argue the superiority of Western culture or America, you have to ignore this fact, and why else would you criticize something that is not a threat to you or anyone for that matter, if you want to know who the bad guys are follow the money (made off war and thus the deaths) and count the dead.

Math is not hard, apparently understanding reality is to some people. If you honestly think Islam is not used as a propaganda device, that everything you hear and read against it is true, I pity you.

You are not doing anything but perpetuating stereotypes and it is what they want, tell a lie enough times people believe it and the bigger the lie the more so.

I am afraid to tell you that you obviously are concerned with one side of a narrative which is almost entirely propaganda, lies.

But what do I know about Islam, I'm just a dumb, evil Muslim who belongs to a religion you don't and not just because of that knows more about it than you, not to mention history related to it and books written about it's theology.

How many Sunnan and Ahadith collections have you read, Sunnis have 8 collections?

How many times have you read the Quran and Tafsir of it?

Our religion is not taught on the news buddy, and you don't comprehend at all that Islam is a good thing, and not inferior to western culture in any way, a culture that gave us colonialism and 2 world wars.

The object of the first was to take down the powerful Ottoman Empire, not because it was bad but because it was powerful and the West is greedy and not concerned with human lives in Muslim lands.

And these are ultimately your sources, as writing lies about the Muslim world in Europe is as old as Islam itself almost, it is a shame you have not caught on to the scam.

Islam is Holy,

 

[Ysa7al1Masih]

The threat within Islam being THE threat to Islam is a pretty uneducated thing to say.

I wonder if you are even aware that after Ghenghis Khan ransacked Europe and Asia that Islam conquered the Mongols, who became the Ottoman Empire?

The threat was from the outside and turned into a defense mechanism by civilizing the Mongols, and their never was a threat from within, still isn't. Basically invert what you originally said to say that outside threats were historically the biggest, Crusaders, Mongols, and that in both cases Islam won in the end, that Islam converted outside threats and that Muslims are actually forbidden to war with each other according to the Quran so that isn't a realistic "biggest threat."

You talk like you are way more informed than you probably even want to be, so much truth and history you are oblivious to or ignoring intentionally just for the cheap thrill of insulting people who are going through hell as we speak because of the religion they believe in. As if you could ever possibly prove what you are saying without propaganda from the modern Era.

I read real history and religion, not an interpretation from someone who hates the people they speak of, because I'm realistic and don't like insulting people's beliefs without cause.

Although Muslims have bigger problems than some guy on the internet pretending to know Islam but actually clueless and an outside observer with a bad seat.

Because America is that threat, and not Muslim.

You probably don't know but there are records of Crusaders embracing Islam willingly because they got deserted or other situations and were taken care of and fed by the people who they were supposed to kill.

The thinking of the authors was that they lost their eternal life for food but nobody forced conversion and they acknowledge this, so that doesn't actually explain their conversion.

I recommend the book "The Spread of Islam In The World, a history of Peaceful Preaching" by Prof Thomas Arnold, 1896, public domain so you should be able to get it for free on pdf.

It'll open your eyes. I doubt you will read it but hope you do.

 

[Ysa7al1Masih]

I suggest that if people think Islam is evil they confirm it with reading our literature and not propaganda, because shocking though it may seem our literature teaches us to be moral law abiding citizens and reject evil embrace good, return evil WITH good, and we have, do.

It does not teach 99% of the things people say it does because they read one quote out of context and consult a fellow Islamophobe to interpret the text, but never an ACTUAL Muslim citizen of the world, although we love to talk about it and do a good job refuting the lies perpetuated by goons.

Which is why people do not quote our literature and when they do have little to work with, and the little they do have easy to explain and not evil.

So I will challenge anyone to quote anything that they think proves Islam teaches evil or is responsible for their own invasions, occupations, annexations and colonizations since the first world war.

Because it does not, and they are not.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Why then have they left Millions of displaced Palestinians in limbo in refugee camps in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon contravening U.N resolution 194.

I don't see how that's Israel's problem since they're not Israeli citizens and I assume they don't want to be. Why don't their fellow Muslims take them in and stop using them as a political football?

 

[LuisDantas]

Most people who say things about Islam that are negative are uneducated entirely and rely on Islamophobes, bigots, for their information.

Except when they do not.

Contrast with those who attempt to present Islaam in a positive light.

 

[Ysa7al1Masih]

Oh yeah I forgot...

That Khazaria converted to Judaism as the state religion is a universally acknowledged historical fact.

So if you want to believe written about DNA studies designed to convince the gullible of the world that white European Ashkenazi Jews are Semitic, be my guest, but Ashkenaz is a Biblical character and descendant of Japheth, brother of Shem/Sem, and Germany has nothing to do with the fact that they are called that, that's called a folk etymology, Ashkenazi comes from Ashkenaz, a person in the Bible not connected with any place, and even if it were the reason does not make them Semites or erase history.

When Ghenghis Khan swept through Khazaria he decimated Khazaria and they fled west, the survivors.

Obviously the conversion of a nation does not change its DNA, and the Khazar Jews also obviously were the majority in their European nation while most Jews still lived in the Middle East and North Africa.

Also obvious is it is not hard to pay someone to say that Ashkenazi DNA is Semitic, and obviously they would do that if they wanted to preserve the lie, easily at that.

Just some obvious observations buy a dumb, evil Muslim.

 

[YmirGF]

I suggest that if people think Islam is evil they confirm it with reading our literature and not propaganda, because shocking though it may seem our literature teaches us to be moral law abiding citizens and reject evil embrace good, return evil WITH good, and we have, do.

It does not teach 99% of the things people say it does because they read one quote out of context and consult a fellow Islamophobe to interpret the text, but never an ACTUAL Muslim citizen of the world, although we love to talk about it and do a good job refuting the lies perpetuated by goons.

Which is why people do not quote our literature and when they do have little to work with, and the little they do have easy to explain and not evil.

So I will challenge anyone to quote anything that they think proves Islam teaches evil or is responsible for their own invasions, occupations, annexations and colonizations since the first world war.

Because it does not, and they are not.

My negative views of Islam are solely due to the rambling narrative of your fellow Muslims. The anti-Islam sites/authors really never made it for me and I also realize the news media is almost the last place to go for information on Islam. I've read the Qur'an many times, read countless dissertations about what it all means, endless fatwa's as well as innumerable hadiths and have engaged Muslims since 9/11/2001. You have to TRY to understand that Islam is NOT good news for non-Muslims and your so-called "holy" book is riddled with fairly unkind depictions of non-believers.

Let's put it this way, I have learned enough about Islam to knowingly reject its gross assumptions about reality and to fully understand why I am rejecting it. I'm to the point where I cannot think of a single area that Islam excels other than perhaps in encouraging & producing fanatics. Even I will admit it does that very well.

In regards to your "challenge" in the last bit, why would we argue about Muslim imperialism long after Islam had been hobbled both politically, militarily and financially? That's a bit silly. How about the Muslim rampages throughout history while Muslims were in a position to conquer?

I stand firmly with @LuisDantas on the topic of Islam.

(Edit: What you cannot possibly realize is that for the first few years that Luis came to RF he was fairly kind to Islam and was quite the apologist. It's been fascinating seeing his position morph as he has learned more and more.)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Just some obvious observations buy a dumb, evil Muslim.

Well, you have one thing correct here. Guess which one.

 

[Ysa7al1Masih]

I don't see how that's Israel's problem since they're not Israeli citizens and I assume they don't want to be. Why don't their fellow Muslims take them in and stop using them as a political football?

Your rhetoric is cute but meaningless, you don't know what you are talking about, I told you this.

We are not using anybody as a "political football (good idea to use corny rhetoric when the facts are against you, lol)". "

Those are your words and opinion and not facts. Israel has them imprisoned in their own serperate states, we can't talk to Palestinians in Palestine, and the human right violations Israel is guilty of could not possibly be anyone's fault but Israel, and you might have been discussing something else, but I am discussing this.

Is this our fault?

You got issues. I don't think you believe yourself if you do I pity you.

 

[Ysa7al1Masih]

My negative views of Islam are solely due to the rambling narrative of your fellow Muslims. The anti-Islam sites/authors really never made it for me and I also realize the news media is almost the last place to go for information on Islam. I've read the Qur'an many times, read countless dissertations about what it all means, endless fatwa's as well as innumerable hadiths and have engaged Muslims since 9/11/2001. You have to TRY to understand that Islam is NOT good news for non-Muslims and your so-called "holy" book is riddled with fairly unkind depictions of non-believers.

Let's put it this way, I have learned enough about Islam to knowingly reject its gross assumptions about reality and to fully understand why I am rejecting it. I'm to the point where I cannot think of a single area that Islam excels other than perhaps in encouraging & producing fanatics. Even I will admit it does that very well.

In regards to your "challenge" in the last bit, why would we argue about Muslim imperialism long after Islam had been hobbled both politically, militarily and financially? That's a bit silly. How about the Muslim rampages throughout history while Muslims were in a position to conquer?

I stand firmly with @LuisDantas on the topic of Islam.

Oh so your negative opinions are our fault because you are on the internet insulting us and we defend ourselves?

Move to the real world then talk to me, if anything you should know a few people online should not influence your opinion of 1.8 billion people.

But you seem not to understand that either.

What do you understand?

I seriously doubt that you were just minding your business and the Muslims online decided to have an unpleasant conversation with you.

What I gather is that you have been refuted so many times by so many people and facts that you are mad at them for ridiculing your bigotry.

Which is inexcusable even if your highly improbable but nevertheless given reason for hating Islam was true.

I don't hate the entire culture of every person who I disagree with, which in this case is on you.

Irrational thinking is your issue, not Islam, too much time on the internet.

Not Islam, your negative opinions of it based on interactions with people whose religion you like to slander, are the problem, and you admit it!

It's based on internet interactions with unconfirmable Muslims.

If you hate Islam, it's got nothing to do with internet conversations, but you know that. I don't have to tell you.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Your rhetoric is cute but meaningless, you don't know what you are talking about, I told you this.

We are not using anybody as a "political football (good idea to use corny rhetoric when the facts are against you, lol)". "

Those are your words and opinion and not facts. Israel has them imprisoned in their own serperate states, we can't talk to Palestinians in Palestine, and the human right violations Israel is guilty of could not possibly be anyone's fault but Israel, and you might have been discussing something else, but I am discussing this.

Is this our fault?

You got issues. I don't think you believe yourself if you do I pity you.

Please don't speak to me about human rights violations when I would be executed in pretty much every Muslim country.

 

[YmirGF]

Oh so your negative opinions are our fault because you are on the internet insulting us and we defend ourselves?

Move to the real world then talk to me, if anything you should know a few people online should not influence your opinion of 1.8 billion people.

But you seem not to understand that either.

What do you understand?

I understand that dialogue is a two-way street. Do you?

 

[Ysa7al1Masih]

Well, you have one thing correct here. Guess which one.

I was being sarcastic but thank you for letting me know you are a bigot.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I was being sarcastic but thank you for letting me know you are a bigot.

Says the one peddling anti-Semitic lies that are commonly only regurgitated in neo-Nazi dumpsters.

 

[YmirGF]

I was being sarcastic but thank you for letting me know you are a bigot.

For the record, the last person on RF I would call a bigot would be @Saint Frankenstein

You don't seem to grasp that you are proving your own foolishness in your rush to (incorrect) judgment.

 

[Ysa7al1Masih]

Please don't speak to me about human rights violations when I would be executed in pretty much every Muslim country.

I did and will speak to you about human rights violations that have been going on for decades.

It does not matter to me who the victim is, if the perpetrators of human rights violations (I know you are still bs ing BTW) are Muslims they are my enemy.

Because the Quran forbids it and I am actually a Muslim and not some puppet installed by Western nations, which is the leader of every country in the Muslim world.

And not the fault of Islam which forbids such things.

Read a book if you want to be smart.

Until then you might want to stop pretending you already are, you are not, not regarding Islam or common sense.

Your retort to my mention of human rights violations by Israel was, "Don't say that."

Smooth,and you really impressed, what with your not knowing how leaders get chosen in not only Islamic countries but every country under Western thumbs.

Keep it up!

You basically are everything you pretend to hate for whatever real reason.

And missed the fact that I already leaked that I know how regimes where put in place by the Allies of the West.

And you foolishly think that I will be foolish enough to believe that these leaders are really Muslims!

Ha!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I did and will speak to you about human rights violations that have been going on for decades.

It does not matter to me who the victim is, if the perpetrators of human rights violations (I know you are still bs ing BTW) are Muslims they are my enemy.

Because the Quran forbids it and I am actually a Muslim and not some puppet installed by Western nations, which is the leader of every country in the Muslim world.

And not the fault of Islam which forbids such things.

Read a book if you want to be smart.

The leaders of Iran and Syria weren't installed by the West. I think it's time for your co-religionists to stop blaming colonialism and Israel for your ills. When you have the chance to have free elections, you still choose theocratic dictators. I feel sorry for much of the Muslim world because I view you as brainwashed by your leaders to hate Israel (the Jewish people and their bid for self-determination, really) and the West in order to distract from their own failures and abuses. It's easy for tyrannies like Saudi Arabia and Iran to use tribalism as a tool to deflect and distract so people won't call them out. What about Israel, right?

 

[YmirGF]

Sorry, I hadn't realized you had been editing this little diatribe.

Oh so your negative opinions are our fault because you are on the internet insulting us and we defend ourselves?

Move to the real world then talk to me, if anything you should know a few people online should not influence your opinion of 1.8 billion people.

I actually agree with the last part. But, you see, it wasn't what the ordinary Muslims said that turned me against Islam, they just confirmed what I was reading from authentic Islamic texts.

I seriously doubt that you were just minding your business and the Muslims online decided to have an unpleasant conversation with you.

At first, I was quite diplomatic (before I got to RF, btw) and was silly enough to join an Islamic forum to find out what the "little" people thought. They were pretty direct about what they thought. But no, I have never been much of a shrinking violet.

What I gather is that you have been refuted so many times by so many people and facts that you are mad at them for ridiculing your bigotry.

Oh dear. You are welcome to comb the archives here on RF and read my extensive conversations with Muslims. I cannot think of a single occasion where I was successfully refuted, LOL. I will say that a very few Muslims earned my respect and for a variety of reasons...but no, they never won a single argument.

Which is inexcusable even if your highly improbable but nevertheless given reason for hating Islam was true.

I do not hate Islam. I just think it is a collection of out-dated ideas that were better forgotten than taught to fragile young minds.

I don't hate the entire culture of every person who I disagree with, which in this case is on you.

Who said anything about hating the culture? It's just inferior. No reason to get upset over simple facts.

Irrational thinking is your issue, not Islam, too much time on the internet.

No, again, I've spent hundreds of hours reading the Qur'an, the Sunna and many related articles about Islam. I prefer books.

Not Islam, your negative opinions of it based on interactions with people whose religion you like to slander, are the problem, and you admit it!

You could not be more wrong, really. Again, for those in the slow lane, the hundreds of Muslims I have interacted with online simply confirmed what I was reading and how I was reading it was accurate. You are simply adding to this - for the record.

It's based on internet interactions with unconfirmable Muslims.

Oh come on, no self-respecting non-Muslim would pretend to be a Muslim just to get a rise out of other non-Muslims on the Interwebs, LOL. That's just silly.

If you hate Islam, it's got nothing to do with internet conversations, but you know that. I don't have to tell you.

Again, I do not hate Islam. What is it with you folks? I don't take Islamic theology seriously enough to warrant hatred. There are simply too many ideas in Islam that are no longer useful and should be, collectively, discarded. If you think that is hateful, so be it, even if it is not.

In closing, just because someone is not convinced, in the slightest, by blustering Muslims appeals as to the perfection of Islam, does not make it so. Just because we reject what you and others are claiming does not mean we hate you.

 

[LuisDantas]

I stand firmly with @LuisDantas on the topic of Islam.

(Edit: What you cannot possibly realize is that for the first few years that Luis came to RF he was fairly kind to Islam and was quite the apologist. It's been fascinating seeing his position morph as he has learned more and more.)

Ain't that the truth...

I used to presume Islaam to be a lot wiser and fair than it turned out to be.

As it turns out, most of my reasons for revising my opinions came directly from the claims of apologists who ended up teaching me better, much against their own hopes far as I can tell.

 

[Ysa7al1Masih]

For the record, the last person on RF I would call a bigot would be @Saint Frankenstein

You don't seem to grasp that you are proving your own foolishness in your rush to (incorrect) judgment.

You don't seem to grasp that this statement of yours is a figment of your imagination, and that me telling you that I was being sarcastic but thank you for letting me know you are a bigot...

Made YOU look foolish, and in no way did or even could "prove" something that is not true in the first place, it's unfortunate that you need to be told this.

As for replying to the wrong person it doesn't matter and is a human error, we are all capable of those, if I make an error let it be something meaningless like replying to the wrong person who got the message anyway and not a ridiculous error in human decency like using a person's sarcasm to cheap shot the religion of 1.8 billion people.

That said it seems for no reason you replied to my comment, not no reason, but one actually, to make an oh so cool cheap shot online about a person and people you don't know, 1. 8 billion of them.

Thank you for impressing me with your intelligent, logical and not at all bigoted reply. Because I always take bigots seriously and never ridicule them.

Sarcasm again, do you now understand the concept of sarcasm? *It means that I don't mean I am dumb or evil but said it to make a point, which is that Muslims are neither and Now my point is that anyone who calls a religion en masse evil and/or stupid, is evil and stupid.

You further prove my point so much I am glad I accidentally responded to the wrong person.

Unfortunate for you though.

.

Not as unfortunate as your bigotry and overall lack of sense, common or otherwise.