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Jerusalem is an Arabic City?

"Jerusalem is an Arabic City and Will remain one forever"

  • True

  • False


Results are only viewable after voting.
My negative views of Islam are solely due to the rambling narrative of your fellow Muslims. The anti-Islam sites/authors really never made it for me and I also realize the news media is almost the last place to go for information on Islam. I've read the Qur'an many times, read countless dissertations about what it all means, endless fatwa's as well as innumerable hadiths and have engaged Muslims since 9/11/2001. You have to TRY to understand that Islam is NOT good news for non-Muslims and your so-called "holy" book is riddled with fairly unkind depictions of non-believers.

Let's put it this way, I have learned enough about Islam to knowingly reject its gross assumptions about reality and to fully understand why I am rejecting it. I'm to the point where I cannot think of a single area that Islam excels other than perhaps in encouraging & producing fanatics. Even I will admit it does that very well.

In regards to your "challenge" in the last bit, why would we argue about Muslim imperialism long after Islam had been hobbled both politically, militarily and financially? That's a bit silly. How about the Muslim rampages throughout history while Muslims were in a position to conquer?

I stand firmly with @LuisDantas on the topic of Islam.

(Edit: What you cannot possibly realize is that for the first few years that Luis came to RF he was fairly kind to Islam and was quite the apologist. It's been fascinating seeing his position morph as he has learned more and more.)


Aren't you the person who said a few Muslims on the internet formed their opinion of a religion of 1.8 billion?

Why are you still talking to me?

You know I ridiculed you, you track my edits and edit accordingly.

That's not ever going to change, although I did send it to the wrong person, it applies to both of you.

Using the word diatribe might make you feel that it is accurate to apply to any statement, it doesn't actually work that way and everything I said was specific, with a point, and to it.

Not a diatribe, sorry, get a dictionary pal.
 
Ain't that the truth...

I used to presume Islaam to be a lot wiser and fair than it turned out to be.

As it turns out, most of my reasons for revising my opinions came directly from the claims of apologists who ended up teaching me better, much against their own hopes far as I can tell.

What you call reasons are just excuses, it seems like you need to get out of the house and talk with actual people face to face.

I don't form opinions of large and diverse whole cultures based on ANYTHING that happens on the internet, and my guess is that you never intended to change your mind if actually even read apologetics by a Muslim, which, BTW, is no reason for insulting a religion.

You don't have to like apologetics, or anything for that matter, but basing an opinion of 1.8 billion people's religion off of it is pretty dumb, yet you don't realize this, do you?

Well, you can't make the blind see, unless you're a miracle worker, and I may be starting to get you Islam haters confused.

You all only say the same exact things, and always, if you weren't one you'd understand.

But you are, and the denial of hate laughable coming from you.

You have nothing better to do than go online to trash talk Muslims, which you don't obviously as here you are.

You ain't doing it because you love or even understand Islam, you don't on both counts and hate is probably the only thing that could drive a person to such a lame activity.

You are no better than the person who forms opinions of entire cultures based on a few internet interactions no doubt occurring because you want to be ignorant and insult people.

Was that you? It's hard to keep track of all you angry, lonely and frustrated people with nothing better to do, because you all live on the internet and have no lives and seem like rabid dogs to me, it is actually like you are literally all the same person, take away your names and you can't be told apart, almost as if you have the exact same sources, Islamophobe propaganda.

I just thank God you're all astoundingly uneducated, it makes my job easy. If you were actually educated regarding Islam and knew a lot of Muslims, you would not be saying the lies you say, and defending bigotry while hypocritically denying it at the same time.

There are no smart bigots, bigotry comes from either a feeling of self superiority combined with a ridiculous amount of lies...

Or a plain lack of decency.

Either you are one, deal with it. Or stop insulting people's religions.

The truth is that without you guys I have less reason to post the very historical facts you are unaware of, and you might reject every fact in the world, but not everyone is you.

I honestly don't give a damn about you or who said what, you are just an opportunity for me to expose ignorance, no more, and the same is true with all your bigoted pals, who can cheerlead each other all day for all I care as long as I get my say.

Anyone with sense that might be effected by your ridiculous opinions, all of you, won't be after I say what I have to say, in the end you are the bigot insulting entire cultures, I'm the guy calling you uneducated and proving it.

Have fun
 
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YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Aren't you the person who said a few Muslims on the internet formed their opinion of a religion of 1.8 billion?

Why are you still talking to me?

You know I ridiculed you, you track my edits and edit accordingly.

That's not ever going to change, although I did send it to the wrong person, it applies to both of you.

Using the word diatribe might make you feel that it is accurate to apply to any statement, it doesn't actually work that way and everything I said was specific, with a point, and to it.

Not a diatribe, sorry, get a dictionary pal.
My guess is that you are not a particularly effective communicator. You certainly do seem to have issues.


Oh, and diatribe sums up your posts, almost perfectly. You might want to check a dictionary yourself.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
What you call reasons are just excuses, it seems like you need to get out of the house and talk with actual people face to face.

That is always a good idea, but do you honestly expect that to counter the voluntary witness of so many online Muslims?

Don't you think the evidence would pour out already - even into you - if it did exist?

I don't form opinions of large and diverse whole cultures based on ANYTHING that happens on the internet, and my guess is that you never intended to change your mind if actually even read apologetics by a Muslim, which, BTW, is no reason for insulting a religion.

I am not insulting a religion, or even Islaam (which is not a religion, but rather monotheism taken to unhealthy extremes). I am pointing out its flaws, shortcomings and dangers.

As for changing one's mind, I actually did, as already noted. I used to presume Islaam a lot better than it turned out to be.

You don't have to like apologetics, or anything for that matter, but basing an opinion of 1.8 billion people's religion off of it is pretty dumb, yet you don't realize this, do you?

That would cut both ways, you must realize. To the extent that it is necessary to be cautious when talking billions of people, you have as much (or more) of a need than I do.

Well, you can't make the blind see, unless you're a miracle worker, and I may be starting to get you Islam haters confused.

"Hater" is a misleading word in this context. We are, after all, talking to you and other Muslims.

We are warned about Islaam, aware of it and denouncing it. I don't doubt that you perceive that as much the same as hatred, but there is a huge difference.

You all only say the same exact things,

Ironic statement coming from a Muslim while complaining about criticism of Islaam.

Besides, aren't we supposed to be describing the same doctrine? How much of a spread of opinions would you expect, and why?

and always, if you weren't one you'd understand.

You should browse what ex-Muslims say in their communities sometimes. We are going easy on you. If anything, those who have suffered Islaamic proselytism in person are more extreme than we are, to the point of usually abandoning any intention of following a religion.

Which is a shame, btw. Religion, unlike Islaam, is a beautiful and precious thing. But even ex-Muslims often fail to realize that.

But you are, and the denial of hate laughable coming from you.

I guess that I will have to accept that you misjudge me something fierce then.

No big deal. I have suffered far worse.

You have nothing better to do than go online to trash talk Muslims, which you don't obviously as here you are.

?

You ain't doing it because you love or even understand Islam, you don't on both counts and hate is probably the only thing that could drive a person to such a lame activity.

I don't love Islaam, because it does not deserve to be loved. I do however understand it well enough to have an informed opinion. It is too bad that you do not see fit to return the favor.

You are no better than the person who forms opinions of entire cultures based on a few internet interactions no doubt occurring because you want to be ignorant and insult people.

How would you know, and how did you come to such a wild, unsupported conclusion?

Was that you? It's hard to keep track of all you angry, lonely and frustrated people with nothing better to do, because you all live on the internet and have no lives and seem like rabid dogs to me, it is actually like you are literally all the same person, take away your names and you can't be told apart, almost as if you have the exact same sources, Islamophobe propaganda.

I just thank God you're all astoundingly uneducated, it makes my job easy. If you were actually educated regarding Islam and knew a lot of Muslims, you would not be saying the lies you say, and defending bigotry while hypocritically denying it at the same time.

There are no smart bigots, bigotry comes from either a feeling of self superiority combined with a ridiculous amount of lies...

Or a plain lack of decency.

Either you are one, deal with it. Or stop insulting people's religions.

The truth is that without you guys I have less reason to post the very historical facts you are unaware of, and you might reject every fact in the world, but not everyone is you.

I honestly don't give a damn about you or who said what, you are just an opportunity for me to expose ignorance, no more, and the same is true with all your bigoted pals, who can cheerlead each other all day for all I care as long as I get my say.

Anyone with sense that might be effected by your ridiculous opinions, all of you, won't be after I say what I have to say, in the end you are the bigot insulting entire cultures, I'm the guy calling you uneducated and proving it.

Have fun

I don't know who you are talking about. Certainly not me, so I will just ignore this.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Nope. 1948. 3 years after 1945. Sorry to break it to you.

So one fine day David Ben gurion said "I say chaps wouldn't it be rather splendid to declare the state of Israel" and suddenly the Arabs and Jews became enemies.

1948 the US and Russia recognised the state of Israel but it was a "thing" long before that.
 
I love people who claim to read books they clearly haven't, as a lie like that is easy to spot when you have.

It is laughable to think that mere hours studying the Quran and Sunnan makes one an expert qualified to judge the morals of every person who adheres to them.

But when you say you spent hours reading Sunnah, you don't realize that is literally one quote about things that the Prophet (saw) did, while Sunnan is the plural form and our two Sahih collections of authentic undisputed literature aren't called Sunnah or Sunnan.

Which gives away the fact that you have not studied what Ahadith and Sunnan are to even know the difference!

Why do people think that they can justify hate speech within false claims of hours (2?) spent reading "Quran and Sunnah."

When it's rather obvious, as any student (one who studies) of Ahadith and Sunnan learns the difference by the titles! Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, are Ahadith with some Sunnan that goes with the sayings of the Prophet (saw) according to tradition, which is what a Hadith is, a tradition, and what it means, literally.

Where as a Sunnah is an act of the Prophet (saw), it means "The Way", and both are read only by Sunnis as far as being applicable to our religion, but not Shia, who have different traditions entirely.

Bukhari and Muslim are sayings attributed to the Prophet (saw), which makes them Ahadith.

Sunnan are Muwatta Malik, At Tabari, etc, and there are 5 collections which may include sayings but as a whole are not Ahadith and not Sahih entirely, meaning that weak traditions exist and are labeled, grades.

If you read Bukhari and Muslim you were reading Sahih Ahadith with some deeds accompanying, but the focus is on the sayings themselves.

So yeah, I don't think that this person has spent 1 hour studying or reading Ahadith, Sunnan or Quran, because nothing in them supports the opinions held, and the fact that they claim to have read Sunnah, as in one traditional thing that the Prophet (saw) is said to have done, is why it is obvious, his "Way" or Sunnah, and Ahadith refers to the things he said according to oral tradition.

Anyone can read the Quran in English, and not comprehend, if you don't try that's what happens, you don't learn.

Again, nothing in the Quran supports anything said by anyone in this thread. Just like the Sunnan, Ahadith.

I wonder if they noticed that the Quran says that in order to understand it you have to have pure intentions, which is funny when someone reads it for perceived dirt.

I can tell you that every quote I've ever heard from any Islamophobe was misrepresented, out of context, and was swiftly explained by me, and not sinister like the person thought, and they get embarrassed and stop replying after about 3 tries, it's not even fun anymore because it's always the same 2 or 3 Ayat that they don't know in context and don't actually say what they want it to.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
I love people who claim to read books they clearly haven't, as a lie like that is easy to spot when you have.

It is laughable to think that mere hours studying the Quran and Sunnan makes one an expert qualified to judge the morals of every person who adheres to them.

But when you say you spent hours reading Sunnah, you don't realize that is literally one quote about things that the Prophet (saw) did, while Sunnan is the plural form and our two Sahih collections of authentic undisputed literature aren't called Sunnah or Sunnan.

Which gives away the fact that you have not studied what Ahadith and Sunnan are to even know the difference!

Why do people think that they can justify hate speech within false claims of hours (2?) spent reading "Quran and Sunnah."

When it's rather obvious, as any student (one who studies) of Ahadith and Sunnan learns the difference by the titles! Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, are Ahadith with some Sunnan that goes with the sayings of the Prophet (saw) according to tradition, which is what a Hadith is, a tradition, and what it means, literally.

Where as a Sunnah is an act of the Prophet (saw), it means "The Way", and both are read only by Sunnis as far as being applicable to our religion, but not Shia, who have different traditions entirely.

Bukhari and Muslim are sayings attributed to the Prophet (saw), which makes them Ahadith.

Sunnan are Muwatta Malik, At Tabari, etc, and there are 5 collections which may include sayings but as a whole are not Ahadith and not Sahih entirely, meaning that weak traditions exist and are labeled, grades.

If you read Bukhari and Muslim you were reading Sahih Ahadith with some deeds accompanying, but the focus is on the sayings themselves.

So yeah, I don't think that this person has spent 1 hour studying or reading Ahadith, Sunnan or Quran, because nothing in them supports the opinions held, and the fact that they claim to have read Sunnah, as in one traditional thing that the Prophet (saw) is said to have done, is why it is obvious, his "Way" or Sunnah, and Ahadith refers to the things he said according to oral tradition.

Anyone can read the Quran in English, and not comprehend, if you don't try that's what happens, you don't learn.

Again, nothing in the Quran supports anything said by anyone in this thread. Just like the Sunnan, Ahadith.

I wonder if they noticed that the Quran says that in order to understand it you have to have pure intentions, which is funny when someone reads it for perceived dirt.

I can tell you that every quote I've ever heard from any Islamophobe was misrepresented, out of context, and was swiftly explained by me, and not sinister like the person thought, and they get embarrassed and stop replying after about 3 tries, it's not even fun anymore because it's always the same 2 or 3 Ayat that they don't know in context and don't actually say what they want it to.

Doesn't sound like your having a good day
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
--- drivel snip ----
Again, nothing in the Quran supports anything said by anyone in this thread. Just like the Sunnan, Ahadith.

I wonder if they noticed that the Quran says that in order to understand it you have to have pure intentions, which is funny when someone reads it for perceived dirt.

I can tell you that every quote I've ever heard from any Islamophobe was misrepresented, out of context, and was swiftly explained by me, and not sinister like the person thought, and they get embarrassed and stop replying after about 3 tries, it's not even fun anymore because it's always the same 2 or 3 Ayat that they don't know in context and don't actually say what they want it to.
Are you seriously suggesting that I am incorrect that the Qur'an does not cast non-believers continually (if not exclusively) in a very negative light or describe them in incredibly disparaging terms?
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
In this BBC video the Arabic man says "Jerusalem is an Arabic City and will remain one forever" and goes on to say "you cannot erase history" as if he thinks the city has always been an Arabic city and always will be forever. So if that's not calling the kettle black and rewriting the history of the Jews. By this poll do you believe Jerusalem has always been an Arabic City and will forever be, answer the poll true. If you believe Jerusalem was once a Jewish city and will be again answer false to the poll.

Iranians rally against Trump's Jerusalem move, burn US flags

Can't vote.
No place remains the same forever.
But Jerusalem has been an Arabic city longer than Europeans have been in North America. Will New York always be American?
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
....
..... Therefore, the OP is false on the basis that it doesn't appear to recognize the diversity of the city.

They'll be demanding that the great Mosque be removed, next.
The Muslims have their foundations sunk very deep there.
 
The link I presented above has enough, I think.

I'm very wary about clicking on links to other pages, particularly where I don't know whether I can trust the site or not (call me paranoid, if you like). I’m also not a fan of reading chunks of text pasted from elsewhere.


Most of the threat to Islaam, through all of its history of over one and a half millennia, comes from within, so that is not at all a convincing line.

I was talking of the threat to particular Muslim communities, or indeed the community at large.


And the facts support me entirely.

Which facts?


The same thing.

Nope.


Those of practice without discernment, of belief without wisdom and questioning.

On the contrary, Allah exhorts humankind to question and not do things just because that is what tradition dictates.


The evidence against your claim is much too overwhelming and keeps growing.

I consider myself somebody who will look at the evidence, different claims, weigh it all up, and continually revisit, etc., if new arguments or evidence present themselves, and I don’t see this growing, overwhelming evidence to which you point.


My vocabulary is unusual in two fairly different languages. I would make a poor spy.

:)

Seeing the social problems caused by those Muslims in those places, I don't think I can accept that example as valid.

My example works for the context in which I used it.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
I suggest that if people think Islam is evil they confirm it with reading our literature and not propaganda, because shocking though it may seem our literature teaches us to be moral law abiding citizens and reject evil embrace good, return evil WITH good, and we have, do.

I think Islam is a catalyst for doing bad things much like the Christian church was 500 years ago and some may argue even today.
I think Islam is just outdated and quite foreign in the modern world and although 1.6 billion followers is a mish mash of of groups or sects so not all the same, some more backward than others and some a lot richer.

It does not teach 99% of the things people say it does because they read one quote out of context and consult a fellow Islamophobe to interpret the text, but never an ACTUAL Muslim citizen of the world, although we love to talk about it and do a good job refuting the lies perpetuated by goons.

I don't know but you tell me how do apostates homosexuals and adulterers fare in Islam, I've read many hadith and apparently shahih that tell of horrific things.

Which is why people do not quote our literature and when they do have little to work with, and the little they do have easy to explain and not evil.

No, when we do there's always some excuse.

So I will challenge anyone to quote anything that they think proves Islam teaches evil or is responsible for their own invasions, occupations, annexations and colonizations since the first world war.

What is the punishment for unbelievers apostates homosexuals?

Because it does not, and they are not.

Because you say so.
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Are you seriously suggesting that I am incorrect that the Qur'an does not cast non-believers continually (if not exclusively) in a very negative light or describe them in incredibly disparaging terms?
Not just the Qur'an, every Prophet ever sent gave clear warnings to unbelievers, and what awaits them in the hereafter.

I believe you already accept there are Samsaric beings that communicate from the Heavens, (Jinn) but think after death, Billions of people have been reborn in a ongoing cycle, as you think this life is purely something we experience to better ourselves when we are reborn. I've shown there is little to no evidence of anyone being reborn, let alone Billions of people, so then the Abrahamic narrative of this life being a test, at the end of which Judgement awaits leading to heaven or hell must be something to consider, whether you like the prospect or not.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
May I ask what your initial view of Islam was, and what you based this on?
I presumed it to be roughly comparable to Christianity, but somewhat harder to learn and understand due to cultural and linguistic differences.

I also assumed it to be divided into many movements, some of which would be very difficult to compare with others (because such is the case with Christianity).

For the same reason, I also assumed it to be taken with wildly varying degrees of commitment even inside specific families.

While none of those assumptions proved exactly wrong, all turned out to be severe underestimations of the particularity of Islaam.
 
ATTN : Louis Dantas

Hey buddy. How is your day going?

I have some suggestions, advice.

If you are going to spend so much time and energy insulting Islam, ask yourself why you are doing this.

If you think that the suggestion that interactions online are a legitimate venue for forming opinions of almost 2 billion people, think again. I assure you that it is quite mad.

Because not every Muslim is online, most are not worried about your hobby of insulting their religion, and are entirely unaware So you don't know them and your opinions don't apply. They do not really apply anyway because you are rationalizing your disgusting behavior and mentality with your disgusting opinions and not reality.

Example :Your ignorant statement suggesting that Muslims have any control over the Palestinians to, and are, use them as "a political football" which is not a thing, and only someone who has no clue of reality would say,works perfectly.

And thinking you can dismiss the human rights violations in Palestine, and by alluding to alleged human rights violations that you never actually said where they happened, by who or to who, meaning you are just assuming that it is true but don't actually know, and don't actually know how anyone with the power TO do so, is a typical Western puppet, which is pretty much every leader in the Muslim world, whether you know it or just ignore it.

Reality check, Muslims hate their puppet leaders more than anyone, they have good reasons to, too, and their regimes, but hate who installed them more, again with good reasons.

And, one human rights violations or a hundred do not justify paying no attention to other human rights violations, I can say with certainty that you are selective in who you care about.

Even if you witnessed a human rights violation in a Muslim country, it's hardly the fault of Muslims what politicians do, and we are not all politicians, in fact barely any, in terms of percentage are, and barely any so called Muslim politicians actually are, as they would not be puppets for the West if they were, and know what it involves, selling their own soul.

Imams are not allowed to discuss politics, will not, and I found that out when I tried to, so you are just willfully revealing your ignorance, and I gather your anger comes from a lack of knowledge, and a lot of false assumptions, but no real life experiences with Muslims, and you admitted that your opinions were based on the internet, making me wonder how much time you spend on the internet, a lot is obvious though.

If you want to spend a couple years, or however long you have been doing this, which I can see has been a while, making it an obsession, semi daily if not daily, which is sad and pathetic.

If you wanted to interact with Muslims we aren't hard to find, go to your local Mosque and they will be happy to educate and correct your misconceptions and false assumptions, but you must get off the internet to do so, because Mosques are outside of your studio apartment or mother's basement, not in your computer, online, which is full of trolls like you who also hate people for no reason and try justifying it with hate speech, lies, like you, and like you they are not motivated to learn about Islam, their motivation is to insult it like it's a noble endeavor, you are all ridiculous and hide behind anonymity working for Satan, unwittingly or otherwise, bad people who think talking about people they imagine are worse than they are, makes them better people.

But you are all bigots, only bigots insult whole cultures as if they are a monolith and themselves not intellectually stunted, but we are not a monolith, and you guys have to be intellectually stunted, because you are incapable of waking up from your hate filled state of sleep, and don't want to be educated.

You want to hate, it probably makes a person like I described feel better to insult people, lowlifes like that Need someone to hate and talk trash about, it relieves their dissatisfaction with their own lives and miserable existences.

I don't know any happy, educated people who take to the internet to cowardly hurl lies and insults at people they realistically could not possibly know all of. And rather than limit your insults to specific people you do know, you insult all of Islam as if you are something besides a typical bigot. As if you know everything about Islam and all Muslims. You know almost nothing in reality, unfortunately.

The sooner you realize you are heavy on insults yet empty of actual facts, that rhetoric is meaningless, and allegations without saying who, what, where, etc, are your m.o., the better for you, your mental health.

Bigotry is hate, hate is the fault of the hater, not the hated, the uneducated, not the educated.

You are the hater, the typical uneducated bigot, it seems that you are actually proud of your own ignorance and not 1 or a million facts that refute your erroneous opinions will change your mind because you CHOOSE to base your opinions on the internet, the equivalent of basing your opinions on Tabloids, and not on real facts, information which you choose to ignore and rationalize your decision to do, rather than just admit that as far as Islam goes you are not educated enough to judge it, and obviously not popular enough to judge how 1.8 billion people, in the fastest growing religion on earth for some time now, as not everyone is you, I myself am American and Muslim, and what I feel for you is not hate or anger.

But pity. I pity the pitifully miserable human who spends their life on the internet and has no choice but to base their opinions on what goes on in internet forums, Muslim anti propaganda websites, and think that this is something you should share with us, as if it's a good excuse and we all own apologetic websites and like you spend our lives on the internet talking trash.

You truly are a weak minded, miserable troll, and you need to get off the internet and make some real world friends, at least if you are going to insult Islam, learn about it by reading our literature and form your opinions by going to a Mosque and inquiring about it.

Which you can do here Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are the most important part of this collection and considered to be authentic, the various other collections of oral traditions, besides the 40 Hadith Qudsi, have weak and strong traditions both, and say what is which, so you know.

Then you can read the Tafsir books, which are interpretations of the Quran, at Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs - التفاسير
 
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