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Jesus and Egyptian Influence
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Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
From what I understand, gnostic belief came about after Jesus.
Also, I think gnostics have many beliefs and ideas contrary to what Jesus preached. Like all our present day religions, gnostic belief does incorporate characteristics of and concepts spoken of by the Lord. (“I am the light of the world”). But then, again like all religions, too many man derived concepts take over and lead the movement.
Jesus was anti religion. He wants a personal relationship with each of us. (“Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness”)
From what I understand, gnosticism may be closer to the teachings of Jesus in some ways, than other christian church’s doctrine, but still misses the goal, so, therefore is equally misleading. I think the gnostics do not see a need for repentance, and this is something mentioned as absolutely necessary many times by the Lord.
I could be way off, because of the fact, gnostic belief today is likely very different from gnostic belief of the past. Plus there is not much of a continuous history of gnostic belief because it was anathema to the catholic church.
Also, I think gnostics have many beliefs and ideas contrary to what Jesus preached. Like all our present day religions, gnostic belief does incorporate characteristics of and concepts spoken of by the Lord. (“I am the light of the world”). But then, again like all religions, too many man derived concepts take over and lead the movement.
Jesus was anti religion. He wants a personal relationship with each of us. (“Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness”)
From what I understand, gnosticism may be closer to the teachings of Jesus in some ways, than other christian church’s doctrine, but still misses the goal, so, therefore is equally misleading. I think the gnostics do not see a need for repentance, and this is something mentioned as absolutely necessary many times by the Lord.
I could be way off, because of the fact, gnostic belief today is likely very different from gnostic belief of the past. Plus there is not much of a continuous history of gnostic belief because it was anathema to the catholic church.
actually it was prevalent in alexandria before the rise of christianity.
Gnosticism
GNOSTICISM - JewishEncyclopedia.com
Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
Your links refer to gnostics during the 1st and 2nd centuries.
And even that, gnosticism was never a religious movement during those times.
It’s more likely a religious movement today.
Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
That’s a nice blanket statement, but I find very little describing what it entailed.
And there is plenty written, that tells us gnosticism had many varying beliefs, both then, and now.
thats because gnosticism isn't unique to a religion. we also know that the coptics were some of the first christian groups and they are gnostic. alexandria was home to the largest learning center in the world at that time because of the greek influence.
jesus even speaks of gnosis against the pharisees
luke 11:52
knowledge from strong's G1108 or gnosis
mark goes to egypt
The School of Alexandria - Part I/Ch 4 - The Gnostics
Gnosticism designates a complex religious and philosophical movement that started probably before Christianity and flourished from about 100 to 700 A.D. There were many Christian, Jewish and pagan Gnostic sects that stressed salvation through a secret "knowledge" or "Gnosis." The term "Gnostics" was first applied by second and third century patristic writers to a large number of teachers, such as Valentinus, Basilides and many others; all of whom were regarded by the Church Fathers as Christian heretics. Although Marcion and his community stand somewhat apart, certain features are common to the movement as a whole.
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Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I’m just not getting it.
The Bible is not anti knowledge.
There are many proverbs speaking about knowledge. And wisdom.
I don’t see Christianity professing to be against knowledge.
And Jesus is not going to be influenced by other’s thinking or knowledge. He was the source.
So, I’m sorry I’m lost
knowledge is 1st person experiential. it isn't faith based.
amatuerscholar
Member
No. It is unlikely that Jesus ever went to Egypt. While Matthew claims he did, Luke never makes a mention of that and seems to contradict such an idea. If we, for argument sake, assume that Jesus was in Egypt, it would have been as a young child, and any such influence would have been minimal as the stay in Egypt was only when he was an infant and maybe toddler. So whatever he may have learned from there would have been forgotten, and it's unlikely that he would have taken up other teachings separate from what his parents would have taught him, as again, he was just a child. So we can rule out any influence during the Egyptian experience.
Now, did Jesus have any Gnostic influences? When generally speaking of Gnosticism, we are talking about a Christian theological view that rises in the 2nd and 3rd century. However, exactly what Gnosticism means is debated largely because many ideas were simply grouped into the Gnostic umbrella. Today, scholarship is moving away from that and realizing that there were a number of different movements present. Either way, we can say that this sort of Gnosticism clearly didn't influence Jesus as it only existed post-death.
As for Jewish Gnosticism or some other form of Gnosticism? Probably not. First, defining pre-Christian Gnosticism is exceptionally difficult. While some claim there is a pre-Christian Gnosticism, other's reject that idea, largely because pointing to such is almost impossible unless one really opens up the meaning of the ideology. By that point, it is so vague as to mean virtually nothing.
What can be said about the ideology of Jesus though? We are looking strictly at Second Temple Palestinian Judaism. He's a bit apocalyptic bent, or eschatological bent, but we are looking at ideas within what could be considered common Judaism. Jesus does seem to have a lot of similarities with the Pharisees. He's a bit more conservative, but it still fits within that school of thought.
Really, when we look at the teachings of Jesus, we get what we expect out of a 2nd Temple Palestinian Jew. There really aren't any other influences here.
sooda
Veteran Member
What Egyptian experience?
As Melchizedek, as Joseph, as Joshua
sooda
Veteran Member
Oh that's all foundational mythos.. They were just landless Canaanites.. The story starts off screwed up.. There was NO Ur of the Chaldeans in the time of Abraham.