Jesus and Proselytizing

[Fool]

Yes, Jesus had an informal conversation with the woman at the well during his time on Earth.
But according to Matthew 15:24 Jesus was primarily sent to the ' house of Israel '.
As Acts of the Apostles 3:26 mentions that ' first ' ( choice ) was given to Israel.
First, of course would indicate more to follow:
1) After Pentecost, then the door was open to all the rest of the Samaritans.
2) After Pentecost ( after the Samaritans ) then (3) the Roman soldier's faith was recognized at being opened up for the gentile people of the nations. That was Not before Jesus' death. Before Jesus' death the way was first opened up for the Jewish people. They are the ' first ' of Acts 3:26. The rest come after Jesus' resurrection starting with Pentecost.

yes but he spoke to anyone who had ears to hear too.

charity begins at home but it doesn't end there.

He also taught to the crowds at Mt. Olive and by the sea too.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Jesus wants us to remember the calendar date,

Way too legalistic for me.

Mark 2:27 The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. NIV

and

Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. NIV

The chapter continues on about how we are free from rules. Legalism has always been a problem with the church and the entire book of Galatians deals with that subject. However, Colossians brings all this talk about rules and laws to a conclusion in the next chapter.

Colossians 3:12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. NIV

Yeah. Put on love. Good stuff. The more you love the fewer rules you need. Devote your life to loving others and you simply don't need rules. This isn't a call to asceticism or other affected show of devotion. Just treat the people you meet with love and concern. No, you won't be perfect but you will get better at it. a lot better. You can only learn to love with On the Job Training.

 

[Scott C.]

Was Jesus trying to convert folks to Judaism, or a religion per se?

Jesus condemned hypocritical practices of some within Judaism. In that sense he was correcting the faith. He also wanted the Jews to understand that he was the Messiah they were expecting. I don't see acceptance of Jesus by Jews as a conversion to a new faith, i.e., Christianity. I see it as acceptance of the Jewish Messiah which is a continuation of their faith.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

We disagree on this.

Apparently.

"I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter will pass from the law until everything takes place." - Jesus (attributed)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Way too legalistic for me.

Mark 2:27 The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. NIV

and

Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. NIV

The chapter continues on about how we are free from rules. Legalism has always been a problem with the church and the entire book of Galatians deals with that subject.

Romans 3:31 (NET) "Do we then nullify the law through faith? Absolutely not! Instead we uphold the law."

Paul seems to be as inconsistent as Jesus on this issue.

 

[whirlingmerc]

In a sense yes... in a sense no...

In the case of John the Baptist, baptism was for converts to judaism, some say
so there may be a rebirth renewing being looked forward to in both John the Baptist and Jesus

 

[jtartar]

Was Jesus trying to convert folks to Judaism, or a religion per se?

Fool,
Jesus was trying to get the Jews to obey the Mosaic Law Covenant, that they were born in and were required to obey, ever since 1513BC.
Since Jesus was born a Jew he could not teach another religion, or he could have been stone for that, Deuteronomy 13:1-18, Galatians 4:4. Jesus was teaching thingsof the Law that would also be part of the Christian congregation, which would be made up of Jesus followers, Acts 4:9-13, 11:26.
Remember that Jesus had told the Jews that their Temple was abandoned because of their not obeying the Mosaic Law, Matthew 23:37,38. Jesus' teaching was getting his followers ready to follow a New Covenant that Jesus instituted on the night before his death, Luke 22:14-20. This New Covenant was based on the Blood of Jesus, which was much better than the Blood of goats and bulls, Hebrews 9:11-15, 8:6-13, 10:1,2, 11-14, 16-20.

Was Jesus trying to convert folks to Judaism, or a religion per se?

Was Jesus trying to convert folks to Judaism, or a religion per se?

Was Jesus trying to convert folks to Judaism, or a religion per se?

 

[Sleeppy]

He was definitely a Jewish nationalist. He wanted to interpret Judaism, and validate or invalidate certain legalities, apart from the dominant religious authorities of the time.

 

[Fool]

Jesus condemned hypocritical practices of some within Judaism. In that sense he was correcting the faith. He also wanted the Jews to understand that he was the Messiah they were expecting. I don't see acceptance of Jesus by Jews as a conversion to a new faith, i.e., Christianity. I see it as acceptance of the Jewish Messiah which is a continuation of their faith.

One does not have to give up their cultural identity in order to incorporate a more holistic approach. Jesus didn't ask anyone to convert. He asked them to look at their actions and not what they wore.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

One does not have to give up their cultural identity in order to incorporate a more holistic approach. Jesus didn't ask anyone to convert. He asked them to look at their actions and not what they wore.

This passage (Matthew 10:34-39) certainly doesn't sound like Jesus is saying he wants people to maintain their cultural identity:

Not Peace, but a Sword
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law,36 and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.

37 “Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life because of me will find it.

 

[Riders]

The answer is no.Wiki says under the page on dead sea scrolls that there were groups of jews who believed the Christian message was for them, no one else. Jesus was preaching to the jews not to others.

There are lots of bible verses that say so too.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

yes but he spoke to anyone who had ears to hear too.
charity begins at home but it doesn't end there.
He also taught to the crowds at Mt. Olive and by the sea too.

Good point above about anyone who had ears to hear, but the ' anyones ' were mostly be the Jews.
So, yes agree, charity began at home as Jesus instructed at Matthew 10:5-6
That also indicates the Mt. of Olive and by-the-sea crowds were mostly Jews.
After Pentecost the way was then open for the Samaritans, followed by the gentile people of the nations.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Way too legalistic for me.
Mark 2:27 The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. NIV
Colossians 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. NIV
The chapter continues on about how we are free from rules. Legalism has always been a problem with the church and the entire book of Galatians deals with that subject. However, Colossians brings all this talk about rules and laws to a conclusion in the next chapter.
Colossians 3:12 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. NIV
Yeah. Put on love. Good stuff. The more you love the fewer rules you need. Devote your life to loving others and you simply don't need rules. This isn't a call to asceticism or other affected show of devotion. Just treat the people you meet with love and concern. No, you won't be perfect but you will get better at it. a lot better. You can only learn to love with On the Job Training.

Good point to me about 'On-the-Job Training ' - Luke 10

Yes, the reality is found in Christ. The reality of Luke 22:28-30.
The old temporary Law was just a 'shadow' of the coming reality.
There would be a New permanent covenant that to me would be the reality - Jeremiah 32:40

Within rules there are regulations. We are all free to choose to act responsibility toward God.
The Golden Rule will never be obsolete, and neither will Jesus' New rule found at John 13:34-35.
How did Jesus say to remember him at Luke 22:19 but to remember his day of death.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Romans 3:31 (NET) "Do we then nullify the law through faith? Absolutely not! Instead we uphold the law."
Paul seems to be as inconsistent as Jesus on this issue.

Yes, uphold the law unless 'Caesar' wants us to do something against God's Law - Acts of the Apostles 5:29
Then, where there is conflict or inconsistencies Christians obey God as Ruler rather than man.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This passage (Matthew 10:34-39) certainly doesn't sound like Jesus is saying he wants people to maintain their cultural identity:

Rather, to me, it was Not cultural identity, but religious identity.
Because of becoming a follower of Christ, and disowning one's self to follow Jesus, family members would oppose the one wanting to become a Christian. - Matthew 10:22

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I think Jesus was teaching people about God, he didn't seem to have been endorsing some particular tradition. In Christ there is no Jew and no Gentile, just as there is neither man nor woman.

Sad, though, that Jesus never says that. I believe it was Paul. Now, I loathe the power-mongering hypocrite, but on this case, he had something good to say.

Democracy, international cooperation, the oneness of humanity, and the equality of men and woman are among the spiritual principles for this new age.

Now if we could just convince people to stop call God a "king", which makes even less sense in the US, who specifically broke away from (overt) monarchy. I mean, if we don't value the concept (at least on paper), why value it in our religion?

Jesus loved people into the Kingdom. Today's proselytizing is mostly yelling, screaming and telling people that they are going to hell. Jesus certainly didn't like that aggressiveness among the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Love isn't about chasing people around with bullwhips and vandalizing their stuff.

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!

Jesus had his fair share of hypocrisies, though.

he taught the samaritan woman at the well and was very pleased with the roman soldier's faith. anyone who was interested in hearing and had ears wasn't welcome?

He had to be guilt-tripped by both. He was honestly shocked that non-Jews could have faith. He wasn't as ugly to the centurion (who I assumed had weapons) as he was to the woman, whom he called a dog (in our modern parlance, he basically called her a b-ch just for wanting something from him).

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

a prophet has no honor in his own country. i doubt he needed to be guilt tripped into doing something. Having used the good samaritan parable to convey the idea of a good neighbor. He could have stuck solely to his own ethnicity; when telling parables

I didn't write the post you attributed to me.

 

[Fool]

He had to be guilt-tripped by both. He was honestly shocked that non-Jews could have faith. He wasn't as ugly to the centurion (who I assumed had weapons) as he was to the woman, whom he called a dog (in our modern parlance, he basically called her a b-ch just for wanting something from him).

a prophet has no honor in his own country. i doubt he needed to be guilt tripped into doing something. Having used the good samaritan parable to convey the idea of a good neighbor. He could have stuck solely to his own ethnicity; when telling parables

 

[Fool]

I didn't write the post you attributed to me.

Sorry, I don't know how I accomplished that. Maybe I didn't delete enough of the posting to reflect the original poster.

I will delete the post.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

i doubt he needed to be guilt tripped into doing something.

Look through all of his healing scenes and ask which religion did the people who had to beg him to help had. Jews just show up and he's like, "HEALED!" Gentiles show up and have to plead, beg, and counter his hypocrisy to get any help. Does he call any Jewish victim "dogs"?

edit:
Assuming Jesus seriously told the parable of the Good Samaritan, I feel that can be dated AFTER these gentiles showed Jesus that non-Jews could have faith too. Before that, he just seems as xenophobic as the rest.