Jesus and satan as brothers...

[Ellen Brown]

At a women's Bible study tonight, the Pastor's wife said that Mormons believe that Jesus and satan were brothers. It is tiresome to hear that about the Mormons but when you go to a Mormon site, they say that is not true.

My belief is that Jesus is the "only begotten Son of God, while satan was a fallen angel.

There is plenty I disagree with about Mormon doctrine, so why spout falsehoods? They only demonstrate the speaker's lack of knowledge of the scripture.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Im not sure, but here’s where that idea about *Jesus and Satan being brothers*, may have come from (since it’s helpful to find ‘common ground’ with others’ beliefs):

Jesus certainly is “the only-begotten Son of God”. And Job 38:7 calls the Angels, “sons of God”, too.
(Here is BibleHub on that verse: Job 38:7 while the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?)

(Even Adam is called, “son of God”, in Luke 3:38!)

Satan is an Angel, who turned bad. (Yes, they can turn bad...Peter refers to “the angels that sinned” @ 2 Peter 2:4. Backing that up, is Jude 1:6; their sinning was due to their actions at Genesis 6:1-4. Satan had sinned before that, though...in Eden.)

So Jesus is the Firstborn Son of God, and the Bible does identify others as sons of God. That would, sort of, make them all brothers.

That raises the question, “If Jesus is called the ‘Only-begotten’, why does the Bible refer to others as being God’s sons?”

If you’d like, some info can be provided on it.

Take care.

 

[Misunderstood]

Hello Ellen,

I don't usually get involved in these types of discussions as I do not think they are important, on these things I do not feel it is a salvation type issue. But it seems like when it gets late everyone goes to bed, and there is not anything else I feel I want to comment on.

Anyway, I looked up what you said and found this. Not that it matters. It seems to imply they are to a degree. I do not really know much about them except my sister's son married a Mormon girl, and I do say their customs on marriage are not to inclusive.

Do Mormons Believe Jesus and Satan are Brothers?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Hello Ellen,

I don't usually get involved in these types of discussions as I do not think they are important, on these things I do not feel it is a salvation type issue. But it seems like when it gets late everyone goes to bed, and there is not anything else I feel I want to comment on.

Anyway, I looked up what you said and found this. Not that it matters. It seems to imply they are to a degree. I do not really know much about them except my sister's son married a Mormon girl, and I do say their customs on marriage are not to inclusive.

Do Mormons Believe Jesus and Satan are Brothers?

Interesting link, thanks for sharing!

 

[Cacotopia]

I mean...when you create something aren't you it's in a sense parent? if jesus is god's only kid, then no other humans can claim to be the children of god.

 

[Anthem]

So she was wrong.

But mormons are yaiks.

 

[Jumi]

There is plenty I disagree with about Mormon doctrine, so why spout falsehoods? They only demonstrate the speaker's lack of knowledge of the scripture.

Bible talks about angels as sons of God. You can technically make plenty of conclusions from that, unless you follow a tradition of interpreting scriptures.

 

[Stanyon]

Sounds like a softer version of Abrasax, instead of being one in the same they are seperate opposing forces which seems to go against what is seen in nature.

 

[Katzpur]

With respect to Jesus and Satan being brothers, here's what we believe:

Like Christians anciently, Mormons believe that all human beings are the offspring of God and that He is the Father of our spirits. Unlike traditional Christians, we believe that all of us lived in God's presence prior to being born. We were spirit beings at that time, without bodies of flesh and bones. As the spirit sons and daughters of God, we were all brothers and sisters to each other. In this context, God the Father is the father to all of us and Jesus Christ is our elder brother -- as explained below.

Unique among all the sons of God was the one we know as Jesus Christ. Unlike the rest of us, He was with His Father in the beginning. Unlike us, He was perfect in every conceivable way and had all of the divine attributes and qualities His Father had. The shared a unity of will and purpose to such an extent that together, they were known (along with the Holy Ghost) both individually and collectively, as God. Finally, even though we were all the spirit offspring of our Father in Heaven, Jesus Christ was also His Father's "Only Begotten" Son. Under His Father's direction, Jesus Christ created our universe. He was chosen prior to His birth in Bethlehem to be the lamb who would be slain for our sins.

Another of the spirit sons of God was one named Lucifer (aka Satan, at least to members of my church). He was a proud and rebellious son who sought to exalt himself above his Father and who was cast out of Heaven for attempting to do so. When Lucifer was cast out of Heaven, he was disowned by his Father, and lost his right to ever again be known as a son of God (or a brother to the greatest of God's sons, Jesus Christ). If Jesus and Satan were sons of the same Father, they were spirit brothers, a fact which in no way reflects positively on Satan or negatively on our Savior.

The relationship between Jesus Christ and Satan was taught anciently. In the third century, the Christian writer, Lactantius, wrote:

“Before creating the world, God produced a spirit like himself, replete with the virtues of the Father. Later He made another, in whom the mark of divine origin was erased, because this one was besmirched by the poison of jealousy and turned therefore from good to evil. He was jealous of his older brother who, remaining united with the Father, insured his affection unto himself. This being who from good became bad is called devil by the Greeks."

 

[Ellen Brown]

Im not sure, but here’s where that idea about *Jesus and Satan being brothers*, may have come from (since it’s helpful to find ‘common ground’ with others’ beliefs):

Jesus certainly is “the only-begotten Son of God”. And Job 38:7 calls the Angels, “sons of God”, too.
(Here is BibleHub on that verse: Job 38:7 while the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?)

(Even Adam is called, “son of God”, in Luke 3:38!)

Satan is an Angel, who turned bad. (Yes, they can turn bad...Peter refers to “the angels that sinned” @ 2 Peter 2:4. Backing that up, is Jude 1:6; their sinning was due to their actions at Genesis 6:1-4. Satan had sinned before that, though...in Eden.)

So Jesus is the Firstborn Son of God, and the Bible does identify others as sons of God. That would, sort of, make them all brothers.

That raises the question, “If Jesus is called the ‘Only-begotten’, why does the Bible refer to others as being God’s sons?”

If you’d like, some info can be provided on it.

Take care.

Thank you. I never heard that when I was attending their church.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Thank you. I never heard that when I was attending their church.

You are welcome!

I’ve never been to their churches or temples, but I can see where they get the idea.

You know, Satan was not created to be God’s opposer / resister. (That’s what the word Satan means: ‘opposer’ or ‘resister’.... and Devil means ‘slanderer’) Anymore than parents give birth to a child that’s born a thief. But the child can become a thief, by the choices he / she makes.

Take care!

 

[Ellen Brown]

Im not sure, but here’s where that idea about *Jesus and Satan being brothers*, may have come from (since it’s helpful to find ‘common ground’ with others’ beliefs):

Jesus certainly is “the only-begotten Son of God”. And Job 38:7 calls the Angels, “sons of God”, too.
(Here is BibleHub on that verse: Job 38:7 while the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?)

(Even Adam is called, “son of God”, in Luke 3:38!)

Satan is an Angel, who turned bad. (Yes, they can turn bad...Peter refers to “the angels that sinned” @ 2 Peter 2:4. Backing that up, is Jude 1:6; their sinning was due to their actions at Genesis 6:1-4. Satan had sinned before that, though...in Eden.)

So Jesus is the Firstborn Son of God, and the Bible does identify others as sons of God. That would, sort of, make them all brothers.

That raises the question, “If Jesus is called the ‘Only-begotten’, why does the Bible refer to others as being God’s sons?”

If you’d like, some info can be provided on it.

Take care.

I did go talk to the Mormons at one of their Visitor's Center and the scripture they use to justify that belief is Isaiah 14:12 and Rev. 12:7,9 KJV. It is an unpleasant idea to me, but it was my own lack of knowledge...

 

[Jane.Doe]

Im not sure, but here’s where that idea about *Jesus and Satan being brothers*, may have come from (since it’s helpful to find ‘common ground’ with others’ beliefs):

Jesus certainly is “the only-begotten Son of God”. And Job 38:7 calls the Angels, “sons of God”, too.
(Here is BibleHub on that verse: Job 38:7 while the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?)

(Even Adam is called, “son of God”, in Luke 3:38!)

Satan is an Angel, who turned bad. (Yes, they can turn bad...Peter refers to “the angels that sinned” @ 2 Peter 2:4. Backing that up, is Jude 1:6; their sinning was due to their actions at Genesis 6:1-4. Satan had sinned before that, though...in Eden.)

So Jesus is the Firstborn Son of God, and the Bible does identify others as sons of God. That would, sort of, make them all brothers.

That raises the question, “If Jesus is called the ‘Only-begotten’, why does the Bible refer to others as being God’s sons?”

If you’d like, some info can be provided on it.

Take care.

Speaking as an LDS person:

The Father is the Father of all. What do you call people who share a Father? Brothers and sisters. We--- me, you, Hitler, the mail man, Elvis, Lucifer, Mother Teresa, Christ, the crazy cat lady -- we're all brothers and sisters because the Father is our Father.

Now, we all know that not all siblings take the same path. Christ is a very special son of the Father-- in fact he's the Son. The Only Begotten. Because He has always walked in unison with the Father, perfect in every single way.

On the other end of the spectrum, some individuals completely reject their Father and downright rebel (prime example: Lucifer/ Satan).

 

[syo]

My belief is that Jesus is the "only begotten Son of God, while satan was a fallen angel.

Satan is a faithful servant of God. The fallen angel part is a temptation aiming humans.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Another of the spirit sons of God was one named Lucifer (aka Satan, at least to members of my church). He was a proud and rebellious son who sought to exalt himself above his Father and who was cast out of Heaven for attempting to do so. When Lucifer was cast out of Heaven, he was disowned by his Father, and lost his right to ever again be known as a son of God (or a brother to the greatest of God's sons, Jesus Christ). If Jesus and Satan were sons of the same Father, they were spirit brothers, a fact which in no way reflects positively on Satan or negatively on our Savior.

So then, YES, the LDS believe that Jesus and Satan are "spirit" brothers. From the words of a Mormon. Thank you for articulating not only the answer but the entire doctrine from which it springs. It is interesting that according to this doctrine, all of us are the brothers and sisters of Jesus and Satan as well.

 

[Katzpur]

So then, YES, the LDS believe that Jesus and Satan are "spirit" brothers. From the words of a Mormon. Thank you for articulating not only the answer but the entire doctrine from which it springs. It is interesting that according to this doctrine, all of us are the brothers and sisters of Jesus and Satan as well.

That would be an accurate statement of our belief, with one caveat. When Satan/Lucifer (in our belief, they are the same) was cast out of Heaven, he more or less became an eternal enemy to God and was disowned by his Father. But he did, at least, start out as our spirit brother. And we LDS frequently refer to Jesus Christ as our "elder brother." Unlike most Christians, we do not believe in the Trinity, so we don't see the Father and the Son as being just two different manifestations of the same divine being.

 

[Ellen Brown]

At Church today, I mentioned the matter about Jesus and satan being brothers and a Pastor who I have lots of respect for totally rejected the idea. Are all churches of the pick and choose scripture variety? I am going to go pout and nap.

 

[Jane.Doe]

At Church today, I mentioned the matter about Jesus and satan being brothers and a Pastor who I have lots of respect for totally rejected the idea. Are all churches of the pick and choose scripture variety? I am going to go pout and nap.

Better way of asking folks: do you believe the Father is the Father of ALL?

 

[Katzpur]

At Church today, I mentioned the matter about Jesus and satan being brothers and a Pastor who I have lots of respect for totally rejected the idea. Are all churches of the pick and choose scripture variety? I am going to go pout and nap.

Okay, so here's something for you to think about when you get up from your nap. I hope it's a good one; mine was over three hours long today and I didn't even dream, which is always nice.

You probably never really heard about Jesus and Satan being brothers when you were a Mormon, because that is a non-Mormon was of explaining Mormon doctrine in such a way that it will shock and disgust those who don't actually understand it. I think people find the idea abhorrent that two such diametrically opposite individuals could be related to each other in any way. But as I said earlier, the fact that they are both offspring of the same Father makes them brothers, whether a pastor from another church wants to acknowledge it or not. The fact that they both had the same Father doesn't change who they are in the slightest. Jesus Christ was the only perfect person who has ever lived, and Satan is the complete opposite. It is what it is.

And yes, all churches are of the pick and choose scripture variety -- including the LDS Church. I'd say it's more a matter of which scriptures each church chooses to focus on and which ones they find problematic in that they can't quite understand how they could fit in with the rest of their theology. Those scriptures are kind of just ignored.

 

[Jane.Doe]

Okay, so here's something for you to think about when you get up from your nap. I hope it's a good one; mine was over three hours long today and I didn't even dream, which is always nice.

You probably never really heard about Jesus and Satan being brothers when you were a Mormon, because that is a non-Mormon was of explaining Mormon doctrine in such a way that it will shock and disgust those who don't actually understand it. I think people find the idea abhorrent that two such diametrically opposite individuals could be related to each other in any way. But as I said earlier, the fact that they are both offspring of the same Father makes them brothers, whether a pastor from another church wants to acknowledge it or not. The fact that they both had the same Father doesn't change who they are in the slightest. Jesus Christ was the only perfect person who has ever lived, and Satan is the complete opposite. It is what it is.

And yes, all churches are of the pick and choose scripture variety -- including the LDS Church. I'd say it's more a matter of which scriptures each church chooses to focus on and which ones they find problematic in that they can't quite understand how they could fit in with the rest of their theology. Those scriptures are kind of just ignored.

Agreed. The only folks who are going to phrase things as Mormons believe Satan and Christ are brothers" are those spinning actual LDS (and generic Christian) beliefs as a form of an attack.