Jesus as a Jew...

[sooda]

Nope! As I have already stated in post #28; Jesus was a Jew on his mother's side, Mary the daughter of Hannan, and grand daughter to Yehoshua/Jesus III, who was the high priest in Jerusalem from 36 to 23 BC and is believed to have been murdered at the orders of Herod the Great.

But Jesus was a Macedonian on his father's side, who was Joseph the son of Heli, a Davidic and Hasmonean prince, called Alexander Helios III, the son of Cleopatra and Mark Anthony, who [HELI] was apparently executed, in 13 B.C., in the world where many Davidian aspirants, as the “young lions of Judah”, were eliminated by the cruel and tyrannical King Herod the Great.

Ephesians 2: 14; "For Christ himself has bought us peace, by making Jews and gentiles one people. With his own body he broke down the wall that separated them and kept them enemies, etc.

(Romans 1:16) For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is God’s power for the salvation of everyone who believes, of the Jew first and of the Greek as well.​

[*content removed by RF staff*]

Marc Anthony was born 14 January 83 BC
Rome, Roman Republic
Died 1 August 30 BC (aged 53)
Alexandria, Ptolemaic Egypt

 

[sooda]

The fate of Alexander Helios is unknown. Plutarch, Cassius Dio and Suetonius state that Octavian killed Antony's son Marcus Antonius Antyllus and Cleopatra's son with Julius Caesar, Caesarion.[8] The only further mention of Alexander Helios and Ptolemy Philadelphus comes from Cassius Dio, who states that when their sister Cleopatra Selene II married King Juba II, Octavian (then named Augustus) spared the lives of Alexander Helios and Ptolemy Philadelphus as a favor to the couple.[9] After Helios arrived in Rome, he disappears from historical records, implying that he died before reaching maturity.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Vespasian and the whole Piso family. Have you read any of the links?

Sounds like "The Davinci Code" and I wasn't impressed with that either

And did the Piso family write the Epistles and book of Revelation? seems more than a stretch

Tekton has an analysis of the claim
Abelard Reuchlin/Roman Piso theory, response

"...It would be an overstatement to say that no one takes this group -- whose overall thesis is that the NT was authored by members of an aristocratic Roman family to keep slaves under control and submissive -- seriously...."

 

[Shia Islam]

I have a very close friend who has been an Agnostic, and lately she has sort of been reading a few things related to Judaism. To her Christianity is a "cultural appropriation by a bunch of Gentiles so they could form their own bogus religion" to loosely quote.

She has pondered coming to this forum to play...

It has been many years since I have heard arguments about how Christianity came to be. I do remember one of the Apostles being reluctant to preach to Gentiles until something happened to make that OK. I thought I remembered Jesus being reluctant to preach to Gentiles at first but can not remember what or if something happened to change that.

These days it seems to me that none of the religions have succeeded in helping man "to be all he can be".

So, I've found a focus for a, new to me, obsession with answering these questions. Before anyone gets down to daemonizing Muslims, it should be clear to anyone with two brain cells that we all have the blood on our hands.

Hi,
This is just to objectively answer the question raised in this OP.
Reading both the bible and the Quran will lead to one clear view:
As man tend to distort the religion with the passage of time..
Judaism was not an exception..
So Jesus was sent to the Jews calling them to return to the path of God..
So we can't call Jesus a Jew..
On the contrary, the bible is clear about how Jesus was killed.
regards

 

[Ellen Brown]

Vespasian and the whole Piso family. Have you read any of the links?

I suppose that is my next task.

 

[sooda]

Hi,
This is just to objectively answer the question raised in this OP.
Reading both the bible and the Quran will lead to one clear view:
As man tend to distort the religion with the passage of time..
Judaism was not an exception..
So Jesus was sent to the Jews calling them to return to the path of God..
So we can't call Jesus a Jew..
On the contrary, the bible is clear about how Jesus was killed.
regards

Jesus was most certainly a Jew.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Hi,
This is just to objectively answer the question raised in this OP.
Reading both the bible and the Quran will lead to one clear view:
As man tend to distort the religion with the passage of time..
Judaism was not an exception..
So Jesus was sent to the Jews calling them to return to the path of God..
So we can't call Jesus a Jew..
On the contrary, the bible is clear about how Jesus was killed.
regards

As Salaam Alaikum:

I had thought that the Shia and Sunni stories about Jesus (Isa PBUH) was the same ... that Judas was thought to be Jesus and was crucified, and Jesus slipped away. At least that was the story when I was first introduced to very radical Sunni Islam. Has this changed since 2005?

Ma Salaama

 

[whirlingmerc]

I suppose that is my next task.

then consider the Tekton article
Abelard Reuchlin/Roman Piso theory, response

 

[sooda]

Yes but Not the Jesus of the Bible. Almost but not quite.

They confess the Torah, Psalms and Gospels but largely don't read those

In that view Jesus is sot fully God fully man. Didn't die for sins of the world. Wasn't raised.

However they do believe he was sinless virgin born Messiah and coming again

Its the same Jesus.. the purest of the prophets.. a man without sin.. They just don't think God has children.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Its the same Jesus.. the purest of the prophets.. a man without sin.. They just don't think God has children.

I struggle with that idea the most.

 

[The Anointed]

The fate of Alexander Helios is unknown. Plutarch, Cassius Dio and Suetonius state that Octavian killed Antony's son Marcus Antonius Antyllus and Cleopatra's son with Julius Caesar, Caesarion.[8] The only further mention of Alexander Helios and Ptolemy Philadelphus comes from Cassius Dio, who states that when their sister Cleopatra Selene II married King Juba II, Octavian (then named Augustus) spared the lives of Alexander Helios and Ptolemy Philadelphus as a favor to the couple.[9] After Helios arrived in Rome, he disappears from historical records, implying that he died before reaching maturity.

Prince Alexander III Helios was apparently not as much Hellenized as he was anti-Herodian. It appears that Prince Heli had the same aspirations and hopes for “Israel” as the high priest within the temple at Jerusalem. In the era in which parents chose the husband of their daughters, Heli found favor with the High Priest Yeshua III. Now this high priest was the son of Phabi, the founder of the House of Phabit, and the grandson of Boethus, that Alexandrian Zadokian priest that King Herod in 37 BCE asked to return to Jerusalem in order to restore the Zadokian dynastic reign again over the office of the high priest. Herod’s reasons were more subliminal and sinister, for he eventually plotted to eliminate the Maccabees from holding either royal or priestly offices in Jerusalem and eliminate their presence entirely from Judea. Was Prince Heli, or his father, Mattathias ben Levi, approached by the high priest for the young Davidian was a potential candidate to marry one of his three daughters, Hannah or Anna?

Yehoshua ben Miriam (Jesus son of Mary)

Though the evidence is only circumstantial, it is suggested by David Hughes and other genealogist that the wife of Mattan ben Levi, called Esther of Jerusalem, was actually the Jewish name of the last Maccabee Queen, whose later Greek regnal name was Queen Alexandra II. Before Alexandra became a Maccabee Queen with her 2nd marriage to Maccabee King Alexander II, her cousin, and later her 3rd marriage to Maccabee King Antigonus, also her cousin, she was married to a Nasi and Prince of Israel, called Mattathias. Was this Mattathias also the person as Mattan ben Levi, the father of Heli, the grandfather of Mary, and the great grandfather of Yehoshua (Jesus)? The evidence suggests the affirmative.

The name of the children of this union between Mattathias, the Nasi and Prince of Israel and Princess Alexandra II, prior to 49 BCE was Prince Alexander III Helios (the Biblical Heli) and his sister, Princess Alexandra III. This young Davidian and Maccabee princess later became the wife of Ptolemy Bar Mennius, a Babylonian Exilarch whose descendants are traced to Europe today.

We ask again, was this Davidian Nasi Prince Mattan ben Levi, the same Nasi as Prince Mattathias, who married the Maccabee Princess, and future Maccabee Queen, as the daughter of the Maccabee Priest-King Hyrcanus II and through this union had a son called Prince Alexander III “Helios”?

Because he was of Idumaean/Hittite/Macedonian descent, and hated by the Jews, he attempted to appease them by marrying a Jewess by the name Mariamne, a descendant of the Maccabees family of Jewish patriots, whom he actually loved. Mariamne, was the daughter of Alexandra, an heir from the old ruling Hasmonaean line had insisted that her brother be appointed high priest,

Prince Alexander Helios III, the Grandfather of Jesus, was the adopted son of the future Maccabee Queen Alexandra II, who at this time was known by her Jewish name, Esther of Jerusalem. Heli, the shortened nickname for Helios (“The Sun”), was a descendant, through adoption, of Mattathias, the Nasi and Prince of Israel

His 1st wife, Esther of Jerusalem, became the mother of Heli ben Mattat or Prince Alexander Helios III. He became the father of Mary, the mother of Jesus. Esther of Jerusalem can be identified as the future Maccabee Queen known by her Greek name as Queen Alexandra II, who was the great grandmother of Yeshua (Jesus).Jan 18, 2017

 

[Tumah]

From the Canaanites and Babylonians.

And what are Israelites?

 

[Tumah]

Jesus was a Jew on his mother's side, Mary the daughter of Hannan, and grand daughter to Yehoshua/Jesus III, who was the high priest in Jerusalem from 36 to 23 BC and is believed to have been murdered at the orders of Herod the Great.

Though the evidence is only circumstantial, it is suggested by David Hughes and other genealogist that the wife of Mattan ben Levi, called Esther of Jerusalem, was actually the Jewish name of the last Maccabee Queen, whose later Greek regnal name was Queen Alexandra II. Before Alexandra became a Maccabee Queen with her 2nd marriage to Maccabee King Alexander II, her cousin, and later her 3rd marriage to Maccabee King Antigonus, also her cousin, she was married to a Nasi and Prince of Israel, called Mattathias. Was this Mattathias also the person as Mattan ben Levi, the father of Heli, the grandfather of Mary, and the great grandfather of Yehoshua (Jesus)? The evidence suggests the affirmative.

First you need to choose whether you want Mary to be a Priest or an Israelite. Then you can decide which genealogy is the right one.

 

[Ellen Brown]

First you need to choose whether you want Mary to be a Priest or an Israelite. Then you can decide which genealogy is the right one.

The Christian position is that both Mary and Joseph shared bloodline back to David. I do not know if this is credible.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Marc Anthony was born 14 January 83 BC
Rome, Roman Republic
Died 1 August 30 BC (aged 53)
Alexandria, Ptolemaic Egypt

I think you told me to read something by a person who lived about the 4th century who started Christianity? Sorry, I did not write it down and now can't remember what it was?

 

[The Anointed]

First you need to choose whether you want Mary to be a Priest or an Israelite. Then you can decide which genealogy is the right one.

There is only one genealogy of Jesus in the bible, and there is no such thing as a female priest, in the Jewish religion, and all Jews are Israelites.

 

[Tumah]

There is only one genealogy of Jesus in the bible, and there is no such thing as a female priest, in the Jewish religion, and all Jews are Israelites.

All Jews are Israelites, but there is a division by camp and they are the Priest, Levite and Israelite. While a woman cannot be a priest in the Temple, that doesn't mean that she cannot be part of the Priest or Levite camps - and as a part of those camps, she has different Laws than do women not part of those camps. In Jewish Law, a woman follows the camp and/or tribe of her father and then husband. But all of that is totally irrelevant to what I was in my previous comment.
The point I was trying to make is that in one comment you have her descending from the Priestly line and in another from the Judahite line. Her paternal line can only follow one of these and the rest are irrelevant. So you should pick which one you want her to descend from and use that one.

 

[The Anointed]

The Christian position is that both Mary and Joseph shared bloodline back to David. I do not know if this is credible.

Mary and Joseph the biological parents of Jesus, were both sired by Alexander Helios III, through different mothers, And Heli, the shortened nickname for Helios (“The Sun”), was a descendant, through adoption, of Matthat, who was a descendant of Nathan

the stepson of David and one of three sons of Uriah and Bathsheba, before Bathsheba bore Solomon to King David.​

 

[The Anointed]

All Jews are Israelites, but there is a division by camp and they are the Priest, Levite and Israelite. While a woman cannot be a priest in the Temple, that doesn't mean that she cannot be part of the Priest or Levite camps - and as a part of those camps, she has different Laws than do women not part of those camps. In Jewish Law, a woman follows the camp and/or tribe of her father and then husband. But all of that is totally irrelevant to what I was in my previous comment.
The point I was trying to make is that in one comment you have her descending from the Priestly line and in another from the Judahite line. Her paternal line can only follow one of these and the rest are irrelevant. So you should pick which one you want her to descend from and use that one.

Sorry sunshine, the tribe of Levi are Israelites, and I have never said anything about Jesus having supposedly descended through the family of Judah.

 

[Tumah]

Sorry sunshine, the tribe of Levi are Israelites,

There's just soo much you don't know.

and I have never said anything about Jesus having supposedly descended through the family of Judah.

And I have never said anything about Jesus.