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Jesus Dying for Our Sins

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Rev 20:6 does not say where they will reign. That answer can be found in Rev 21. It helps to know what the Bible says instead of repeating what your preacher tells you. Your problem is that you assume too much, and take verses out of context and then bend them to what you want it to say.

Wow! Am I right that your ^ above ^ comments about repeating what one's preacher tells you, etc. is meant to be insulting-and-disparaging remarks ? ______

Who gets called up to heaven according to Revelation 11:12 ?

Where is the kingdom located - Luke 22:30 ?
Where is ' Jerusalem above ' if Not in heaven ?- Galatians 4:26
Where is the home at John 14:2-3 ?
Isn't their citizenship in the heavens ?______ - Philippians 3:20-21; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2
Jesus ascended to heaven - 1 Corinthians 15:20; Hebrews 9:24; Ephesians 1:20
That opened up the way for others - John 14:2-3; Hebrews 6:19-20; Hebrews 10:19-20
Since ' flesh and blood ' ( physical ) can Not inherit the kingdom - 1 Corinthians 15:50 - then a spirit resurrection takes place to go to heaven.
Where are the blessings of Ephesians 1:3 located ?_________
Who sits in heavenly places - Ephesians 2:6 ?
Where is the inheritance reserved if Not in heaven ? - 1 Peter 1:4
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Who gets called up to heaven according to Revelation 11:12 ?

What you fail to understand is that the term used for "heaven" actually has three meanings in Koine Greek, which is what the NT was written in:
1. God's dwelling place.
2. The cosmos (space).
3. The sky.

Rev 11:12 refers to #3, hinted by the cloud reference.

Where is the kingdom located - Luke 22:30 ?

No mention of location other than kingdom, which will be New Jerusalem on New Earth, if you actually read Rev 21.

The rest of your verses are also subject to scrutiny under the definition of "heaven." You, like so many others, make the mistake of seeing the term "heaven" and automatically make the leap that it is talking about God's dwelling place. So many Christians are guilty of cherry picking verses, taking them out of context and applying them to what they want to believe.

Not to mention that many English translations merely copy the KJV on its use of "heaven" even though a more accurate rendering would be "paradise." Once again, if you go read Rev 21 you will find that paradise is on NEW EARTH.

Don't argue, don't reply...just go read Rev 21 right now.
 
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URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I don't think there's anything morally wrong with the death penalty, and I don't see how that relates to Hell.

To which hell are you referring? The Bible's temporary hell, or the religious-myth hell of burning forever just taught as being Scripture ?

The only way the death penalty can relate to the ' Bible's hell ' is that ' biblical hell ' is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
The day Jesus' died Jesus went to the Bible's hell ( grave ) until God resurrected Jesus out of hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27; Psalms 16:10; Colossians 2:12 B
If biblical hell was permanent then Jesus would still be in hell.
What did Jesus think he would be doing while in hell is what Jesus taught about the condition of the dead at John 11:11-14 that the dead sleep.
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach unconscious sleep in death:
- References -> Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5

As for those who prove to be wicked they will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
We all have two (2) choices either repent or ' perish ' ( be destroyed ) - 2 Peter 3:9
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
What you fail to understand is that the term used for "heaven" actually has three meanings in Koine Greek, which is what the NT was written in:
1. God's dwelling place.
2. The cosmos (space).
3. The sky.
Revelation 11:12 refers to #3, hinted by the cloud reference.
No mention of location other than kingdom, which will be New Jerusalem on New Earth, if you actually read Revelation 21.
The rest of your verses are also subject to scrutiny under the definition of "heaven." You, like so many others, make the mistake of seeing the term "heaven" and automatically make the leap that it is talking about God's dwelling place. So many Christians are guilty of cherry picking verses, taking them out of context and applying them to what they want to believe.
Not to mention that many English translations merely copy the KJV on its use of "heaven" even though a more accurate rendering would be "paradise," as set forth by Rev 21.

Again, you resort to disparaging remarks.
I did Not copy KJV use of heaven. The ancient manuscripts support Bible canon.

How did you conclude Revelation 11:12 is the sky?
Is the cloud of Acts of the Apostles 1:9 leaving Jesus in the sky? -Hebrews 9:24

There is the physical heavens, the heavens of earth's atmosphere, outer space, mid-heavens where birds fly, spiritual heavens, the angels reside in heaven besides there being a New heavens and New earth.
Did you notice at 2 Peter 3:5; 2 Peter 3:7; 2 Peter 3:13 that there are three (3) heavens mentioned ?
1) the heavens of OLD. The heavens of Noah's day
2) the heavens of NOW. The heavens from Noah's day to our day
3) the NEW heavens. The new cleansed ruling heavens - 2 Corinthians 4:4 - rid of Satan - Revelation 12:9; Revelation 12:12

Where is God's dwelling place according to 1 Kings 8:30; 1 Kings 8:34; 1 Kings 8:36;1 Kings 8:39; 1 Kings 8:43; 1 Kings 8:45; 1 Kings 8:49

Adam and Eve lived in the paradise of Eden. Earth will return to paradisical conditions - Revelation 22:2
Mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' on earth for the healing of earth's nations on earth - Revelation 22:2
Yes, Revelation 21:4-5 applies to earth. ' No more death ' refers to earth because there is No death in heaven. No tombs in heaven - John 5:28-29
ALL who died before Jesus died - John 3:13 - can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection restored back to life on earth during Jesus' millennium-long day governing over earth.
At that time, enemy death will be brought to nothing - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

Those verses however do Not mean No one is called to heaven to be redeemed or bought from the earth. A Greek Interlinear translation can be compared with the KJV, etc.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
The ancient manuscripts support Bible canon.

By those "ancient manuscripts" I am going to assume you are referring to the copies of copies of copies that have been translated? The Autographs (original works) have long been lost or destroyed (thank you Nebuchadnezzar II). In other words, you don't have anything to compare to what was originally written and everything you are citing is merely an assumption during translation. Do you get it yet?
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
The following came to mind when I was reminded that Easter was approaching. It got me thinking. . . . .

If I remember correctly, Jesus was put on Earth to save sinners from Hell and insure they could go to heaven.

And, as I recall, Jesus was one of three consubstantial expressions (a term I took from the definition of the trinity) of god.

So, in fact, god put himself on Earth to save sinners from the Hell he had created for them, or at least permitted it to exist.

God therefore went about his work on earth in the guise of a human, and being omniscient knew what lay ahead---the impending betrayal, crucifixion, and resurrection from his human form.

Knowing how his earthly life was to play out, and purposely orchestrating the whole thing, insuring that he would be betrayed, arrested, crucified, etc. why do people find his "suffering" on the cross and his resurrection so admirable? I don't get it.

First of all, he created Hell (or if you prefer, exclusion from Heaven), but why? The only answer I've been able to come up with is that he wanted his creatures, us, to need him. Need him to get us out of the predicament he set up for us. However, he didn't need it for quite a few years, during which time he sent millions of people to his Hell. Then he comes along and offers a way out to some of his creatures, but only if they sing his praises for being a good guy who had himself killed.

In light of the foregoing, isn't Christianity simply an insurance policy that demands that one buy into the notion that the crucifixion and all was some kind of true sacrifice, when, in fact, it appears there was no actual sacrifice at all? It is all a ploy to get people to praise him, and those who don't can go to H - E - double hockey sticks.

If I've missed some critical aspect of the story please bring me up to speed.


.

I like how, all through your explanation of the story of God you use the word "Hell". But when you get to your "opinion" of why this all happened, you use, "H-E-double hockey sticks". It's as if you're not as sure of your own opinion as you are of your explanation.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
I like how, all through your explanation of the story of God you use the word "Hell". But when you get to your "opinion" of why this all happened, you use, "H-E-double hockey sticks". It's as if you're not as sure of your own opinion as you are of your explanation.
:rolleyes: You're reading far too much into it. :D


.
 
No one goes to heaven. Go read Revelation 21. Those that pass judgment will be sent to live in paradise on NEW EARTH. It helps to actually read the Bible and know what is in it.

Sounds like an old JW idea where only 144,000 go to Heaven and all others are assigned to earth. Anyone with a rational and open mind and with basic hermeneutical skills could put that one to rest. I think the question is, where is the location of the new earth and the new Heaven, and again what is Heaven? Okay as you recommended Revelation 21, consider then:-
Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV)
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And again…
Revelation 21:22 (KJV)
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

And again…
Revelation 21:24-26 (KJV)
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

And again…
Hebrews 12:22 (KJV)
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

Where is Heaven? Is it not where God is, in His essential presence? Where is God? He has become the temple in the New Jerusalem. The New Heaven and the new earth are in one place because the dwelling place of God is with His people and people of all nations of the earth are streaming through the gates of the city to worship God. Hope this helps. Christ’s prophet. Certainty for eternity
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Sounds like an old JW idea where only 144,000 go to Heaven and all others are assigned to earth. Anyone with a rational and open mind and with basic hermeneutical skills could put that one to rest.

I am not, have never been, and never will be a JW. The idea comes straight out of Revelation.

I think the question is, where is the location of the new earth and the new Heaven, and again what is Heaven?

New Earth is on "new earth." Given the description in Revelation, it could very well be another planet, for it will have no oceans/seas.

Okay as you recommended Revelation 21, consider then:- Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV)

The moment you started quoting the KJV, you lost credibility. Use a modern formal equivalent translation such as the NASB or ESV for greater accuracy.

Where is Heaven? Is it not where God is, in His essential presence? Where is God? He has become the temple in the New Jerusalem. The New Heaven and the new earth are in one place because the dwelling place of God is with His people and people of all nations of the earth are streaming through the gates of the city to worship God. Hope this helps. Christ’s prophet. Certainty for eternity

This last part is just gibberish. Yes, God will be with His people (per Revelation). That has nothing to do with the location of New Earth, which will be paradise. The dead do not go to heaven, they go to paradise on New Earth.
 
Can you name anyone righteous who went to hell ?______
Did Jesus reject himself, if not, then why did Jesus go to hell the day he died - Acts of the Apostles 2:27; Psalms 16:10
Jesus did Not believe in some ' religious-myth hell of burning forever', but believed in a biblical hell or grave for the sleeping dead.
That is why Jesus likened death to sleep at John 11:11-14 which is in harmony with the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach sleep ( Not pain ) in death.
- References Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5

Yes, Jesus wants people in heaven - Luke 22:28-30 - and they are the one who have a first or earlier resurrection - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 2:10; Revelation 5:9-10
However, all who died before Jesus' died - John 3:13 - were never offered heaven. Even King David did Not ascend to heaven - Acts of the Apostles 2:34
ALL the people Jesus resurrected he did Not resurrect to heaven, but resurrected them back to healthy physical life on earth.
Adam was never offered heaven, but offered ' everlasting life on earth ' as long as he did Not break God's Law.
None of the people of Hebrews chapter 11 went to heaven - Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39
God's promise to father Abraham is that ALL families and ALL nations of ' earth ' will be blessed - Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18
Blessed with the benefit of healing for earth's nations - Revelation 22:2

What did Jesus teach about earth ? __________ - Matthew 5:5. - Psalms 37:11; Psalms 37:29
Do the humble ' sheep'-like people at the soon coming ' time of separation ' on earth - Matthew 25:31-33,37 - go to heaven or remain on earth - Proverbs 2:21-22

During Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth please notice what happens to temporary ' biblical hell ' at Revelation 20:13-14
After everyone in the Bible's hell is ' delivered up ' (KJV ) meaning resurrected out of hell, then emptied-out hell ( grave ) is cast into a symbolic ' second death' for vacated hell.
Enemy death will be No more on earth - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

We are given two (2) choices - 2 Peter 3:9 - to either repent or 'perish' ( be destroyed ). The wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7 - Not burn forever.
 
Can you name anyone righteous who went to hell ?______
Did Jesus reject himself, if not, then why did Jesus go to hell the day he died - Acts of the Apostles 2:27; Psalms 16:10
Jesus did Not believe in some ' religious-myth hell of burning forever', but believed in a biblical hell or grave for the sleeping dead.
That is why Jesus likened death to sleep at John 11:11-14 which is in harmony with the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach sleep ( Not pain ) in death.
- References Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5

Yes, Jesus wants people in heaven - Luke 22:28-30 - and they are the one who have a first or earlier resurrection - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 2:10; Revelation 5:9-10
However, all who died before Jesus' died - John 3:13 - were never offered heaven. Even King David did Not ascend to heaven - Acts of the Apostles 2:34
ALL the people Jesus resurrected he did Not resurrect to heaven, but resurrected them back to healthy physical life on earth.
Adam was never offered heaven, but offered ' everlasting life on earth ' as long as he did Not break God's Law.
None of the people of Hebrews chapter 11 went to heaven - Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39
God's promise to father Abraham is that ALL families and ALL nations of ' earth ' will be blessed - Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18
Blessed with the benefit of healing for earth's nations - Revelation 22:2

What did Jesus teach about earth ? __________ - Matthew 5:5. - Psalms 37:11; Psalms 37:29
Do the humble ' sheep'-like people at the soon coming ' time of separation ' on earth - Matthew 25:31-33,37 - go to heaven or remain on earth - Proverbs 2:21-22

During Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth please notice what happens to temporary ' biblical hell ' at Revelation 20:13-14
After everyone in the Bible's hell is ' delivered up ' (KJV ) meaning resurrected out of hell, then emptied-out hell ( grave ) is cast into a symbolic ' second death' for vacated hell.
Enemy death will be No more on earth - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

We are given two (2) choices - 2 Peter 3:9 - to either repent or 'perish' ( be destroyed ). The wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7 - Not burn forever.


My Reply
You said:- Can you name anyone righteous who went to hell
? I said: - Why would I want to do that? The answer is if they have their own self-righteousness, which the Bible says is as filthy rags, then they are none of His. If however they are clothed in Christ’s righteousness because they are born-again, then they go to Heaven to be with Jesus Christ, their Saviour.
You said:- Did Jesus reject himself, if not, then why did Jesus go to hell the day he died - Acts of the Apostles 2:27; Psalms 16:10
Jesus did Not believe in some ' religious-myth hell of burning forever', but believed in a biblical hell or grave for the sleeping dead.
I said:-Acts 2:27 says:- (KJV) Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Please also consider:-
Revelation 1:17-18 (KJV)
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

and again:
1 Peter 3:18-20 (KJV) 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Jesus Christ is the Lord of Heaven and earth. He is also Lord of Hell, because He has the Keys to hell, to come and go as He pleases. He went to Hell because all the sins of the whole world was dumped on His shoulders at the cross, where He cried out Matthew 27:46 (KJV) Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Jesus Christ, the Son of God bore the filth of our sins, so much so, that on the cross, God His Father looked away from Him. The fire of God has a purifying affect. That is why Christ went to and through Hell, so that you don’t have to. The most prolific preacher in all the world on the subject of Heaven and Hell was the Lord Jesus Christ. To say that Christ did not preach it, a person would have to be severely deceived. For an example:- Matthew 22:13 (KJV) 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
This is a conscious existence in Hell. Yes there are occasions where people who have died are said to be asleep and the like. You must understand that what is not so clear in the Old Testament, is made clearer in the New Testament. The subject of what happens after death is one of them. That’s about all I have time for. Christ’s prophet. Certainty for eternity.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
If there is a conscious existence in the Bible's hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27 - then why did Jesus teach only sleep in death ? - John 11:11-14
Jesus was clear at John 11:11-14 as is also clearly the same at Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Ecclesiastes 9:5 that the dead are in a sleep-like state.
If No one righteous never went to hell ( righteous Jesus went to hell the day he died ) then what was Jesus doing in biblical hell ?
Sure Jesus has the keys to unlock biblical hell because biblical hell is temporary - Revelation 1:18
' Religious-myth hell ' taught as Scripture is permanent.
After temporary biblical hell ' gives up ' everyone in biblical hell, then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell according to Revelation 20:13-14
All the wicked will be destroyed forever ( Not in hell ) but in ' second death ' - Revelation 21:8 ; Psalms 92:7
Jesus will destroy Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B - Not burn Satan.
Satan ends up in ' second death ' Revelation 21:8, so ' second death ' is a fitting term for being destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7; Acts of the Apostles 3:23
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
The following came to mind when I was reminded that Easter was approaching. It got me thinking. . . . .

If I remember correctly, Jesus was put on Earth to save sinners from Hell and insure they could go to heaven.

And, as I recall, Jesus was one of three consubstantial expressions (a term I took from the definition of the trinity) of god.

So, in fact, god put himself on Earth to save sinners from the Hell he had created for them, or at least permitted it to exist.

God therefore went about his work on earth in the guise of a human, and being omniscient knew what lay ahead---the impending betrayal, crucifixion, and resurrection from his human form.

Knowing how his earthly life was to play out, and purposely orchestrating the whole thing, insuring that he would be betrayed, arrested, crucified, etc. why do people find his "suffering" on the cross and his resurrection so admirable? I don't get it.

First of all, he created Hell (or if you prefer, exclusion from Heaven), but why? The only answer I've been able to come up with is that he wanted his creatures, us, to need him. Need him to get us out of the predicament he set up for us. However, he didn't need it for quite a few years, during which time he sent millions of people to his Hell. Then he comes along and offers a way out to some of his creatures, but only if they sing his praises for being a good guy who had himself killed.

In light of the foregoing, isn't Christianity simply an insurance policy that demands that one buy into the notion that the crucifixion and all was some kind of true sacrifice, when, in fact, it appears there was no actual sacrifice at all? It is all a ploy to get people to praise him, and those who don't can go to H - E - double hockey sticks.

If I've missed some critical aspect of the story please bring me up to speed.


.


God's orchestration is absolute. So, the ploy to get people to praise him and avoid hell, is insurmountable. There is no insurance policy, only an eternity of events, dramatic or otherwise, being observable through time and space by beings in omniscient memory/determination.
 

Domenic

Active Member
The following came to mind when I was reminded that Easter was approaching. It got me thinking. . . . .

If I remember correctly, Jesus was put on Earth to save sinners from Hell and insure they could go to heaven.

And, as I recall, Jesus was one of three consubstantial expressions (a term I took from the definition of the trinity) of god.

So, in fact, god put himself on Earth to save sinners from the Hell he had created for them, or at least permitted it to exist.

God therefore went about his work on earth in the guise of a human, and being omniscient knew what lay ahead---the impending betrayal, crucifixion, and resurrection from his human form.

Knowing how his earthly life was to play out, and purposely orchestrating the whole thing, insuring that he would be betrayed, arrested, crucified, etc. why do people find his "suffering" on the cross and his resurrection so admirable? I don't get it.

First of all, he created Hell (or if you prefer, exclusion from Heaven), but why? The only answer I've been able to come up with is that he wanted his creatures, us, to need him. Need him to get us out of the predicament he set up for us. However, he didn't need it for quite a few years, during which time he sent millions of people to his Hell. Then he comes along and offers a way out to some of his creatures, but only if they sing his praises for being a good guy who had himself killed.

In light of the foregoing, isn't Christianity simply an insurance policy that demands that one buy into the notion that the crucifixion and all was some kind of true sacrifice, when, in fact, it appears there was no actual sacrifice at all? It is all a ploy to get people to praise him, and those who don't can go to H - E - double hockey sticks.

If I've missed some critical aspect of the story please bring me up to speed.

Interesting view of scriptures?
Jesus three gods in One? Many religions teach this. Just something to think about: Jesus said:
“Do not pray to me, but to the Father through me.”
“The Father is greater than I.”
“Father, why have you forsaken me?”

Those are three little things that means, Jesus was talking about and to himself, or he was speaking about his father.

Jesus died for our sins: Just something to think about: if Jesus died for are sins, (all the sins we do daily) we would not have to ask God (the Father) to forgive us every time we sinned.
Was there another reason Jesus had to die in-order to save us? Jesus was dead for only 2.5 days. The Jews count a half day as a full day. That is were we get the three days he was dead. Why did he have to die inorder to save us? What was the sacrifice? I’ll tell you;
Jesus was a perfect man. The seed injected into his mother was not a mans seed, it was a seed from God…it did not have the sin of Adam and Eve. (that’s a story I eill tell you another time.)
Jesus being a perfect man had within him sperma. (human seed to make offsprings.) If he had children they would have been perfect. Now here is a medical fact…it takes up to three days for a mans sperma to die after the man has died. Today when a man dies, doctors can take sperma from the dead man, freeze it, or whatever the do to keep it, and at a later date inject it into an egg of the dead mans wife…giving birth to a child the dead man is father off. When jesus was murdered, a whole unborn perfect human race was given over to death to save this one…you and me.
With that in mind, lets examine the eating of the fruit Adam and Eve ate.
The tree of the knowledge of right and wrong. Was this a real trree, or a symbolic tree? There are hundreds of trees in the bible and all of them are symbolic…who made claim the tree of the knowledge of right and wrong was a real tree?
There was another tree in the garden, the tree of live. Was this a real tree? No it was not. Jesus said, “I am the tree of life.” so who was the tree of the knowledge of right and wrong? If you want to know will tell you.
There are many different kinds of Christian religions. They all claim they are the true religion, and all the others are false. I tell you the truth, all religions are false. God says the Nations will destroy all religion over night. If one of them was from God, nothing could destroy it. Is the bible the word of God? God had the scrolls written. False religions claim they made a copy of the scrolls into book form and they named it the bible. They left over fifty scrolls out of their bible, changed much of the wording of thse they used…yes many of the scriptures are as they are in the scrolls…”tell some truth with a big lie and people will believe it.” The bible is not from God it is from Satan. All religions and their holy book are designed to turn people away from the truth and God.
Do you want to know the truth? Read the scrolls. Start with the five books of Enoch. There is a young man, trey Smith who has put much of the scrolls into video on you tube…I suggest you watch them. But read the five books of Enoch. Use reason. Ask God to let you see the truth, he will.

I am a Christian. I believe in God YHWH, his son Jesus, and Gods written word which in in the scrolls. Those who have turned their backs on God have either been fooled by Satan, or are of Satan’s seed. The same Satan seed that Jesus talked about, the Tars.
 

Domenic

Active Member
If there is a conscious existence in the Bible's hell - Acts of the Apostles 2:27 - then why did Jesus teach only sleep in death ? - John 11:11-14
Jesus was clear at John 11:11-14 as is also clearly the same at Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Ecclesiastes 9:5 that the dead are in a sleep-like state.
If No one righteous never went to hell ( righteous Jesus went to hell the day he died ) then what was Jesus doing in biblical hell ?
Sure Jesus has the keys to unlock biblical hell because biblical hell is temporary - Revelation 1:18
' Religious-myth hell ' taught as Scripture is permanent.
After temporary biblical hell ' gives up ' everyone in biblical hell, then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell according to Revelation 20:13-14
All the wicked will be destroyed forever ( Not in hell ) but in ' second death ' - Revelation 21:8 ; Psalms 92:7
Jesus will destroy Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B - Not burn Satan.
Satan ends up in ' second death ' Revelation 21:8, so ' second death ' is a fitting term for being destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7; Acts of the Apostles 3:23

Ditto.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Interesting view of scriptures?
Jesus three gods in One? Many religions teach this. Just something to think about: Jesus said:
“Do not pray to me, but to the Father through me.”
“The Father is greater than I.”
“Father, why have you forsaken me?”

Those are three little things that means, Jesus was talking about and to himself, or he was speaking about his father.
Then there are those pieces of scripture that equate Jesus with god.

John 10:30-33,
"I and the Father are one."

John 20:28,
"Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Isaiah 44:6,
"Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me."

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

2 Peter 1:1
From Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ.
To those who have obtained a faith that is as valuable as ours, a faith based on the approval that comes from our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
So, :shrug:
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Domenic

Active Member
Then there are those pieces of scripture that equate Jesus with god.

John 10:30-33,
"I and the Father are one."


John 20:28,
"Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Isaiah 44:6,
"Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me."

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

2 Peter 1:1
From Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ.
To those who have obtained a faith that is as valuable as ours, a faith based on the approval that comes from our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
So,

Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." 3,000 people were baptized and of these Jesus said: " Father let these be one with me as I am one with you."
John 17:20-22 "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.22"The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;…"

The bible is claimed to have been a true copy of the scrolls...Have you checked the scrolls to see if the bible matches? There have been many things in the Man made bible that do not match the scrolls.
 
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