Jesus Empty tomb narratives

[Dawnofhope]

Why each author of Gospel had a different story to tell, about what was seen at the empty tomb of Jesus?

"Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot." John 20:11 and 12

"As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed." Mark 16:5

"While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them." Luke 24:5

The empty tomb narrative is an integral part of the resurrection narrative. The authors of the four Gospels were unlikely eye witnesses to the events they wrote and based their accounts on stories they heard. In the case of the synoptic Gospels, there was almost certainly collaboration between the authors as so much of the material in each book is common to Mark, Matthew and Luke. There are good reasons not to consider the accounts as literal history although there is almost certainly some historicity to some of the accounts. They were most likely embellished biographies similar to the Greco-Roman biographies at the time. Did the resurrection literally happen? Almost certainly not for obvious reasons. However, the resurrection narrative is central to the Gospel Message.

 

[Left Coast]

Why each author of Gospel had a different story to tell, about what was seen at the empty tomb of Jesus?

"Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot." John 20:11 and 12

"As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed." Mark 16:5

"While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them." Luke 24:5

You forgot Matthew's account, where an angel comes down out of the sky and magically paralyzes the Roman guards standing watch outside the tomb.

The stories differ because they are mythological rather than historical. Their authors had different literary and apologetic purposes in writing their respective Gospels.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Then how can you ask:

Asking for different views, and to debate. In my view there are apparent contredictions, but, in reality there is none, when Bible is approached and understood correctly. But, I want to see how others specially Bible believing Christian's look at these contredictions.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Asking for different views, and to debate. In my view there are apparent contredictions, but, in reality there is none, when Bible is approached and understood correctly. But, I want to see how others specially Bible believing Christian's look at these contredictions.

In other words, create your own narrative in an attempt to reconcile the accounts.

You would be writing your own gospel.

 

[InChrist]

Thus, in your view, Bible is not inspired by God, for if it was, God had power to ensure His Holy Book will be written and preserved without errors or contrediction. Why wouldn't God write His holy Book though second hand stories passing from one person to another, with allowing mistakes to happen?

Variance in eyewitness accounts are not mistakes. Sit in any courtroom for awhile and listen to testimonies from different people who witnessed the same event. Everyone notices and remembers different details, yet the main event is the same.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Variance in eyewitness accounts are not mistakes. Sit in any courtroom for awhile and listen to testimonies from different people who witnessed the same event. Everyone notices and remembers different details, yet the main event is the same.

Except Gospel is inspired by God according to what it claims.
You are basically saying, all things written in Bible by Prophets or apostles could have some missing information, or some information could have been forgotten or even possibly changed unintentionally, due to limitation on their mind abilities. Then how can you even trust this Books? Any missing or changed information would result in misunderstandings, and misinterpretations. Was not God able to inspire the apostles or the prophets and protect them from error with regards to giving God's words accurately to humanity? Is not God Omnipotent and omnipresent? So, why wouldn't God then use His power to protect His Book?

 

[InChrist]

Except Gospel is inspired by God according to what it claims.
You are basically saying, all things written in Bible by Prophets or apostles could have some missing information, or some information could have been forgotten or even possibly changed unintentionally, due to limitation on their mind abilities. Then how can you even trust this Books? Any missing or changed information would result in misunderstandings, and misinterpretations. Was not God able to inspire the apostles or the prophets and protect them from error with regards to giving God's words accurately to humanity? Is not God Omnipotent and omnipresent? So, why wouldn't God then use His power to protect His Book?

I think God has protected the Bible throughout the centuries and it contains all the pertinent information He wants it to include; nothing missing. I also think He has designed the scriptures to be alive and to portray a real look into the unique idiosyncrasies and characters of humanity in various real life events and circumstances set in history.

 

[Kenny]

Why each author of Gospel had a different story to tell, about what was seen at the empty tomb of Jesus?

"Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot." John 20:11 and 12

"As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed." Mark 16:5

"While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them." Luke 24:5

Each one added to the whole of the story. Like 4 witnesses who together catch the full understanding of what happened.

 

[CG Didymus]

Why each author of Gospel had a different story to tell, about what was seen at the empty tomb of Jesus?

The authors of the four Gospels were unlikely eye witnesses to the events they wrote and based their accounts on stories they heard.

Hey you guys. How have you been? The stories were written long after. Were their several versions going around? Did each apostle tell a different story? Since Mary was there in each gospel, did any one ask her what had happened? Inconsistencies don't make more believable, but, for me, more like the stories, legends, traditions, the myths surrounding the event were growing and changing... and getting embellished. I could see them gathered together and recounting Jesus stories... "Oh yeah, I saw him walk on water and there was two angels at the tomb." "Yeah, well when Jesus died I saw a bunch of dead people get out of their graves and walked around town." I think it's all worth questioning. But you know me, I also question the Baha'i stories.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Hey you guys. How have you been? The stories were written long after. Were their several versions going around? Did each apostle tell a different story? Since Mary was there in each gospel, did any one ask her what had happened? Inconsistencies don't make more believable, but, for me, more like the stories, legends, traditions, the myths surrounding the event were growing and changing... and getting embellished. I could see them gathered together and recounting Jesus stories... "Oh yeah, I saw him walk on water and there was two angels at the tomb." "Yeah, well when Jesus died I saw a bunch of dead people get out of their graves and walked around town." I think it's all worth questioning. But you know me, I also question the Baha'i stories.

Hey CG. Good to hear from you. I've been busy contributing to my countries health service amidst the coronavirus pandemic. We've basically eliminated the virus from New Zealand.

Elimination: what New Zealand's coronavirus response can teach the world | Michael Baker and Nick Wilson

My involvement on RF as focused predominantly on practical measures we can take personally and as a community to respond effectively to the current worldwide pandemic.

I do enjoy a good discussion about the resurrection of Jesus. As you will appreciate the earliest Gospel Mark was thought to be written around 66 - 70 AD. Mathew, Luke and John were written later with the Gospel of John thought to be written between 90 - 100 AD. However the Gospel accounts are all anonymous and we don't have any of the original texts. The earliest Gospel fragment is from John in the second century. However, the first New Testament book to mention the resurrection is the first Epistle to Corinthians thought to be written by St Paul sometime between 50 - 55 AD.

In regards contemporaneous non-biblical documents, other than a small amount written by Josephus and Tertullian we don't have too much to go on. Even the Jewish historian Philo didn't mention Christianity.

So some of the questions you ask , though excellent, can not be answered with any certainty by anybody. It was common place for Greco-Roman biographies to be embellished. Jewish sacred texts are not to be considered reliable from an historic perspective, an obvious example being Genesis. So there are a variety of approaches one can take in assessing the Gospel accounts. One framework is through the lens of Baha'u'llah Whom Baha'is belief to be the latest Manifestation of God. A Baha'i perspective affirms the Gospels were both historic and allegorical. I'm comfortable with the word 'mythology' but would consider many of the myths have meaning and were Divinely inspired.

How's life in California?

 

[rrobs]

Then, how many trips, each apostle (Mark, John and Luke) made to the Tomb, base on the Gospels?

Honestly I forget the details but It's all in the text. Read them carefully, noting times, people, what was seen, etc, and you can see for yourself there were several visits, some people went more than once if I recall.

In my investigation of truth, I start with the premise that God's words are pure words, refined 7 times (Ps 12:6). As such there can be no contradictions. If I see what I think is a contradiction, I assume it is either in the translation or my understanding. It is up to me to do the work necessary to clear it up. So far, so good. There are still things I don't understand, but that's my problem, not God's. Anyway, that's my approach and it has served me well in my quest for truth.

Take care

 

[CG Didymus]

How's life in California?

I've been working. I do tile and I'm finishing tiling shower wall and kitchens for jobs that were started before California shut down. So they are kind of "essential." I called the local police and they said as long as we kept social distancing, they had no problem. Then, after work. I've got you guys here on the forum. Watching what adventures Trump and other politicians are getting into, and I have my guitar. I usually play while the TV is on. Oh, was that you playing that song? You sound just like Jimmy Page. That's some good finger picking.

Now for this debate. Christians handle the "apparent" contradictions one way and Baha'i another. Fundy have to take as much as possible of the Bible literally... from the literal 6 day Creation to the resurrection, ascension and return of Jesus. If it's not literal, then their whole understanding, interpretations, doctrines and everything are threatened. Most are not going to let that happen. Whether or not one person, two or lots of people went to the tomb is a minor problem for them. As you've heard the variations in eye witness testimony. With this, those of us that are skeptical of the event question if any of the stories came directly from eye witnesses. That's why it would have been nice to have Mary's version. Everybody says she was there. But we don't.

Then there's so many reasons to question the whole story. From your medical experience do people come back to life once they are dead? I mean totally, like a door nail, dead. Then being dead for a couple or three days? Bible stories have other people that were resurrected. The Bible has other people that got taken up into "heaven" without dying. As a Christian, even now in modern times, I thought, "Yeah sure, why not." Now that I'm looking back at all those things, I see that embellished story is more likely. Like every religion in those days had Gods and god/men that could die and come back to life and fly around the sky, get lifted up to heaven and then come back down again. But all those religions we call mythical. Probably some people include Christianity as a myth-based religion.

So how do we separate the "Truth" from the fantasy from the Bible? The Fundy Christian truth is God is in control. He has a plan. Satan is defeated and will be cast into hell with all the unbelievers and Jesus Christ will reign with all of those that believe. None of it is fantasy. All of it is true. Then the Baha'is? The focus is on the teachings of love. Each religion got people ready for the next level of spiritual development. Apparent contradictions were not in the "original" teachings, But people, probably religious leaders, added traditions in and misinterpreted other verses and created doctrines and dogma that was never meant to be part of the Truth.

Adding things in would have been way too easy for any of the Bible stories. Daniel's friends get thrown into a fiery furnace and survive? Jonah survives three day in the belly of a fish? God stopped the Sun in the sky for Joshua? Dead people got out of their graves and walked through Jerusalem? All of them could easily be myth and legend to embellish the stories about God and his people and his prophets. The greatest of these stories is Jesus coming back to life. It's a powerful religious myth, but did it really happen?

 

[Dawnofhope]

I've been working. I do tile and I'm finishing tiling shower wall and kitchens for jobs that were started before California shut down. So they are kind of "essential." I called the local police and they said as long as we kept social distancing, they had no problem. Then, after work. I've got you guys here on the forum. Watching what adventures Trump and other politicians are getting into, and I have my guitar. I usually play while the TV is on. Oh, was that you playing that song? You sound just like Jimmy Page. That's some good finger picking.

Now for this debate. Christians handle the "apparent" contradictions one way and Baha'i another. Fundy have to take as much as possible of the Bible literally... from the literal 6 day Creation to the resurrection, ascension and return of Jesus. If it's not literal, then their whole understanding, interpretations, doctrines and everything are threatened. Most are not going to let that happen. Whether or not one person, two or lots of people went to the tomb is a minor problem for them. As you've heard the variations in eye witness testimony. With this, those of us that are skeptical of the event question if any of the stories came directly from eye witnesses. That's why it would have been nice to have Mary's version. Everybody says she was there. But we don't.

Then there's so many reasons to question the whole story. From your medical experience do people come back to life once they are dead? I mean totally, like a door nail, dead. Then being dead for a couple or three days? Bible stories have other people that were resurrected. The Bible has other people that got taken up into "heaven" without dying. As a Christian, even now in modern times, I thought, "Yeah sure, why not." Now that I'm looking back at all those things, I see that embellished story is more likely. Like every religion in those days had Gods and god/men that could die and come back to life and fly around the sky, get lifted up to heaven and then come back down again. But all those religions we call mythical. Probably some people include Christianity as a myth-based religion.

So how do we separate the "Truth" from the fantasy from the Bible? The Fundy Christian truth is God is in control. He has a plan. Satan is defeated and will be cast into hell with all the unbelievers and Jesus Christ will reign with all of those that believe. None of it is fantasy. All of it is true. Then the Baha'is? The focus is on the teachings of love. Each religion got people ready for the next level of spiritual development. Apparent contradictions were not in the "original" teachings, But people, probably religious leaders, added traditions in and misinterpreted other verses and created doctrines and dogma that was never meant to be part of the Truth.

Adding things in would have been way too easy for any of the Bible stories. Daniel's friends get thrown into a fiery furnace and survive? Jonah survives three day in the belly of a fish? God stopped the Sun in the sky for Joshua? Dead people got out of their graves and walked through Jerusalem? All of them could easily be myth and legend to embellish the stories about God and his people and his prophets. The greatest of these stories is Jesus coming back to life. It's a powerful religious myth, but did it really happen?

Hi CG,

Its good to hear you are still working and we all know how essential tradesmen are. I purchased a heap of timber just before our lockdown so have been building a garden shed. Its a good way to maintain physical activity and fitness for me.

I really like some of the earlier folksy Led Zeppelin songs like going to California. I dusted off my guitar yesterday and started picking away.

I have taken a keen interest in the coronavirus and the strategies different countries have taken and to what extent governments have listened to scientists and doctors in formulating public health policies. Some countries have done a great job and others have been abysmal beyond belief. Its tragic when so many lives are at stake. As you appreciate as a Baha’i I avoid politics and criticism of specific governments focusing instead on the general principles.

Christianity is in rapid decline in New Zealand with just 38% identifying as Christian in our census last year. Religious fundamentalism is turning people off religion in droves. Those who identified as having no religious affiliation rose to about 48%. About 8% have a non Christian religion or spiritual path and another 6% didn’t answer to that section of the census. So we are very different from the USA though Christianity is declining there too.

I see its more important to get on with people from a diverse range of backgrounds. That means keeping friendly relationships with Christians, atheists and everyone else.

Did the resurrection of Christ literally happen as recorded in the Gospels? I don’t believe it did and the evidence that says it didn’t happen is overwhelming. So on that point, we would agree.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The empty tomb narrative is an integral part of the resurrection narrative. The authors of the four Gospels were unlikely eye witnesses to the events they wrote and based their accounts on stories they heard. In the case of the synoptic Gospels, there was almost certainly collaboration between the authors as so much of the material in each book is common to Mark, Matthew and Luke. There are good reasons not to consider the accounts as literal history although there is almost certainly some historicity to some of the accounts. They were most likely embellished biographies similar to the Greco-Roman biographies at the time. Did the resurrection literally happen? Almost certainly not for obvious reasons. However, the resurrection narrative is central to the Gospel Message.

Would you say the story of the event of going to the empty Tomb of Jesus and seeing 2 angels, is the same type of story as seeing Moses and Aaron on the mountain, same type of story as seeing resurrected Jesus at the dinner table? If yest, none of them actually happened. I think, with regards to seeing Moses and Aaron, Abdulbaha said, it is a vision.

 

[Trailblazer]

I've been working. I do tile and I'm finishing tiling shower wall and kitchens for jobs that were started before California shut down. So they are kind of "essential."

I did not know you are still working, as you have to be about as old as I am given when you first started hanging around with Baha'is was around the same time I became a Baha'i in southern California.

I am glad to hear you are still working. I was wondering if contractors could still do jobs since one of my tenants is a contractor, but they paid the rent this month so maybe he is still working. Anyhow, I have some "more than essential" home repair projects I would hire you for it if you lived up here. My husband can barely lift a hammer and he has one screwdriver he uses for all jobs, which normally is no more difficult that putting a loose screw back in when it falls off. Changing light bulbs is a "big job" for him if he has to get on a ladder. Needless to say, if I ever got married again, it would be to an handyman, no other qualifications necessary.

 

[PruePhillip]

Why each author of Gospel had a different story to tell, about what was seen at the empty tomb of Jesus?

"Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot." John 20:11 and 12

"As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed." Mark 16:5

"While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them." Luke 24:5

Same with all historians. They all see things differently. As Henry Ford put it, "History is bunk."
Only... he didn't say that, either.

 

[Sp0ckrates]

Why each author of Gospel had a different story to tell, about what was seen at the empty tomb of Jesus?

"Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot." John 20:11 and 12

"As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed." Mark 16:5

"While they were wondering about this, suddenly two men in clothes that gleamed like lightning stood beside them." Luke 24:5

Could it be that different people visited the same tomb at different times?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Could it be that different people visited the same tomb at different times?

We can consider this possibility. But you should demonstrate it from Scriptures, that they were not talking about same event, the same day, same hour.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Same with all historians. They all see things differently. As Henry Ford put it, "History is bunk."
Only... he didn't say that, either.

In Christianity, do the apostles have same position as an ordinary historians?
I mean, they were eye witnesses to the event, and also, the Scripture claims to be inspired by God. Other history books are not inspired by God. Shouldn't that make a difference?

 

[metis]

Pretty much all religions believe and teach that many events they cite were in some way divinely inspired, so are we to believe all of them or only the ones we choose to believe? Buddhism, depending on the raft, is probably the sole exception. .