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Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
samtonga43 said:
Thanks. So what would you say is the difference between belief and knowledge?
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Knowledge is demonstrable. One can support one's claims with more than circular reasoning and other logical errors if one knows. Belief is only thinking that something is true. It may be or it may not be, but if a person can only use poor reasoning all one has is belief.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
Knowledge is demonstrable. One can support one's claims with more than circular reasoning and other logical errors if one knows. Belief is only thinking that something is true. It may be or it may not be, but if a person can only use poor reasoning all one has is belief.
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"all one has is belief ".
Don't be a snob about it. We all believe things. In the area of the supernatural some believe the history handed down about miracles etc is true and some believe it is not true.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Brian2 said:
"all one has is belief ".
Don't be a snob about it. We all believe things. In the area of the supernatural some believe the history handed down about miracles etc is true and some believe it is not true.
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Some of our beliefs are justified, some are not. My main problem is with the rather extreme Christians that make a false idol of the Bible itself. That is not being a snob.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Brian2 said:
Is it idolatry to believe what is written in the Bible?
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It can be. If what is written in the Bible ends up with a lying God I would think so. One cannot believe the myths of Genesis without calling God a liar, though those believers do not understand how they are doing that.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
It can be. If what is written in the Bible ends up with a lying God I would think so. One cannot believe the myths of Genesis without calling God a liar, though those believers do not understand how they are doing that.
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I don't understand how I am doing that.
 
samtonga43

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
Some of our beliefs are justified, some are not. My main problem is with the rather extreme Christians that make a false idol of the Bible itself. That is not being a snob.
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Extreme Christians? Do you mean those Christians who (like atheists) cannot differentiate between the various literary forms of Scripture?
 
samtonga43

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
What do you make of this...

"It is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."

Do you recognize the Hebrew idiomatic expression?
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
samtonga43 said:
How would you do this?
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Multiple ways. But most probably I would explain how we know that the Earth is round and how we know it rotates and why that means that the Sun will rise in the morning.

Are you totally scientifically illiterate? You should not have to be asking these sorts of questions.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
The best way to see that is to learn some rather basic science. Learning enough to realize that there was no Flood of Noah would be a good start.
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I do not see the flood of Noah as having buried all the animals to make it look like evolution.
I have learnt enough of the Bible to be able to see it as not meaning one huge world wide flood that covered all the mountains.
I have also learnt enough to of science to know that there was a large flood in the area at the time and that at about the same time there were other large floods in other parts of the world. There is evidence of this. I don't think the dates of all these floods has been pinned down to a certain time, just a certain period. I have learnt enough to know that there are cultures all over the world that have stories of a large flood in their territory.
All this seems to fit together to make the Noah story part of what was happening all over the world. It would probably have wiped out many people and their life style.
At that time the earth oceans would have been lower and people would have been living in lower areas presumably, nearer the oceans, so floods would be devastation without covering the high mountains. Probably also people would have been more concentrated in where they lived. In the warmer areas since it was in ice age times.
Anyway it appears to me that Noah's flood could have happened, just not as pictured with the translations we have, which can be translated legitimately other ways, and the general beliefs about the flood all over the world. (Why translate the passages in an alternative way when there was no reason to doubt that the flood was a world wide one that covered the high mountains?)
That's my view anyway.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Brian2 said:
I do not see the flood of Noah as having buried all the animals to make it look like evolution.
I have learnt enough of the Bible to be able to see it as not meaning one huge world wide flood that covered all the mountains.
I have also learnt enough to of science to know that there was a large flood in the area at the time and that at about the same time there were other large floods in other parts of the world. There is evidence of this. I don't think the dates of all these floods has been pinned down to a certain time, just a certain period. I have learnt enough to know that there are cultures all over the world that have stories of a large flood in their territory.
All this seems to fit together to make the Noah story part of what was happening all over the world. It would probably have wiped out many people and their life style.
At that time the earth oceans would have been lower and people would have been living in lower areas presumably, nearer the oceans, so floods would be devastation without covering the high mountains. Probably also people would have been more concentrated in where they lived. In the warmer areas since it was in ice age times.
Anyway it appears to me that Noah's flood could have happened, just not as pictured with the translations we have, which can be translated legitimately other ways, and the general beliefs about the flood all over the world. (Why translate the passages in an alternative way when there was no reason to doubt that the flood was a world wide one that covered the high mountains?)
That's my view anyway.
Click to expand...
You don't have to have seen that to know that the Fllod story is a myth. It fails on almost every level possible.

Tell me what your version of the Flood is and I will tell you how we know it to be false.

By the way, there is evidence of past floods in the history of the world, there is not evidence of simultaneous flooding. Events in geology can usually be dated.

In the case of people living in low areas why didn't people just walk away from the floods that you proposed?
 
samtonga43

samtonga43

Well-Known Member
Subduction Zone said:
Multiple ways. But most probably I would explain how we know that the Earth is round and how we know it rotates and why that means that the Sun will rise in the morning.

Are you totally scientifically illiterate? You should not have to be asking these sorts of questions.
Click to expand...

No, I am not scientifically illiterate, SZ., and I don't have to ask this question. I asked this specific question in order to find out how much you knew about epistemology.

Not much, it seems.
 
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