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Jesus genes

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
That would be a false claim, if true. Several scientists have reproduced the "magic" shroud more than once.

Moreover? Analysis of the 2-D image, to see what sort of 3-D shape would be needed to make it?

The head would have to be freakishly huge-- and the "body" would be something like 7 feet tall, too.

No-- the Shroud is clearly a painting, from someone who was clueless how 3-D images project onto 2-D surfaces. Anyone playing Video Games since the old DOOM game, who has fiddled with the skins? Understands this very well.

Someone from the 10th or 11th century? Had no clue, didn't want a clue, and was only interested in Cashing Out on the Relic Craze of that time and place.

It ought to be noted that if you were to add up the volume of pieces of the One True Cross? You'd get sufficient material to build Yankee Stadium or similar structure.

The same goes for "bones" of the "apostles": Enough for a reasonably large army.

I wrote:

"You are unfamiliar with the statement of scientists who reviewed the shroud that it could not be reproduced by any means?"

Please direct me to links where I can see the shroud reproduced, since the dark areas of its image are thinner in depth than a human hair.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Yes, Jesus can be born with only female chromosomes... He wasn't planning on having earthly children. There is good evidence the Turin Shroud is real.

Thank you. Jesus was not human?

When god incarnated himself as flesh, how does that work with calling him human? Why human? Im sure men in the B.C. era on up had the same geneology as humans, right?

This puts a higher standing on catholicism since Mary is also seen as divine. How can you have all female chromosones in a male unless his mother had something to do with the miracle of birth.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I was reading another thread, and this question came to mind.

If jesus father isn't biological (virgin birth), he wouldn't have paternal genes. How does that work? Can one human be the only human within the last three thousand years to have no paternal genes as the rest of us do?

I'm not a gene specialist. Just wondering.

I believe God created the genes to unite with the egg for a conception.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Cloning Humans is considered immoral, but I guess you would probably end up with other humans without paternal genes if you cloned someone.

I believe that would be the case with Adam. Most likely there was only one DNA source. Think about what it took to clone Eve from Adam though.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
That sure sounds like magic to me.

I believe magic requires one to use external forces to assist in creating. For instance the magician needs a magic wand to turn a person into a frog. I believe one may question whether the wand is instrumental or simply a way to tap into ones own power that for most of us seems out of reach.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I believe God created the genes to unite with the egg for a conception.

How did you arrive to that conclusion biblically?

Incarnations aren't always the same as humans only by flesh. The nature of the incarnation isn't defined in the word. Since jesus has no female chromosone, it doesn't sound like he is human like us. If we take after Adam and jesus, why would we have male chromosones?

I believe God does not perform magic. He speaks things into existence.

That is magic. It is performing an action against or contrary to the laws of nature.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I believe magic requires one to use external forces to assist in creating. For instance the magician needs a magic wand to turn a person into a frog. I believe one may question whether the wand is instrumental or simply a way to tap into ones own power that for most of us seems out of reach.
I see "magic" as that which isn't grounded in the natural world.
It's more general than a guy with a stick & a lovely assistant.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Thank you. Jesus was not human?

When god incarnated himself as flesh, how does that work with calling him human? Why human? Im sure men in the B.C. era on up had the same geneology as humans, right?

This puts a higher standing on catholicism since Mary is also seen as divine. How can you have all female chromosones in a male unless his mother had something to do with the miracle of birth.

It is a biblical heresy, for Rome also, to say that Jesus wasn't human. There are numerous scriptures on this.

I don't understand your genealogy question.

Mary is not divine (God) in the Roman church. Mary is seen as sinless since birth--this is a biblical heresy since Mary calls Jesus Christ her savior in Luke 1.

If God formed a baby specially, what does Mary "need to do"? Nothing. Mary did not conceive the child with Joseph or another man. God formed Adam from carbon-rich earth. Why does He "need" Mary to make a contribution?
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Scientists who worked on the shroud included non-Messianic Jews--they are STILL unable to reproduce the shroud image using known techniques. And are you aware that 1st century images appear on the shroud, unknown to Renaissance artists who lacked archaeology?

Let’s bite the bullet. And that is real the image of a first century guy. Even Jesus.

And? I have no problem to accept that Jesus was a historical figure.

Ciao

- viole
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Let’s bite the bullet. And that is real the image of a first century guy. Even Jesus.

And? I have no problem to accept that Jesus was a historical figure.

Ciao

- viole

It is a real image of someone who was buried with 1st century coins on His eyes, had an ANE crown of thorns, more like a cap or fez than the crown shown in medieval paintings, was beaten with a Roman flagrum, had thumbs recessed into His palms due to the nails through His wrists, not hands as in medieval paintings, etc....
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
It is a real image of someone who was buried with 1st century coins on His eyes, had an ANE crown of thorns, more like a cap or fez than the crown shown in medieval paintings, was beaten with a Roman flagrum, had thumbs recessed into His palms due to the nails through His wrists, not hands as in medieval paintings, etc....

Again,let’s bite the bullet. Suppose that is really the body of executed Jesus. I think it is totally implausible, but let’s suppose it is, for sake of discussion.

And?

Ciao

- viole
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Again,let’s bite the bullet. Suppose that is really the body of executed Jesus. I think it is totally implausible, but let’s suppose it is, for sake of discussion.

And?

Ciao

- viole

We would have:

1) Proof that the Bible testimony of the exact, precise manner of Jesus's death is true

2) An image that is in its dark color microscopic in depth to less than the thickness of a human hair, an image that realizes more fully in negative, realizes more fully in 3D with the angle of projection being zero degrees as if light made the image, etc. proof of the Bible testimony of the resurrection of Jesus
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
We would have:

1) Proof that the Bible testimony of the exact, precise manner of Jesus's death is true

And? The Bible also says Jerusalem existed, and it did exist. So what?

2) An image that is in its dark color microscopic in depth to less than the thickness of a human hair, an image that realizes more fully in negative, realizes more fully in 3D with the angle of projection being zero degrees as if light made the image, etc. proof of the Bible testimony of the resurrection of Jesus

Nope. How? Please explain precisely how that image proves any resurrection at all.

Ciao

- viole
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
And? The Bible also says Jerusalem existed, and it did exist. So what?



Nope. How? Please explain precisely how that image proves any resurrection at all.

Ciao

- viole

Thank you for asking. I'll give you two examples for now. 1) To see the incredibly fine work on the shroud, one must look closely. The depth of the dark patches that create the image are far less than a human hair in thickness. And the dark and light fibers alternate as they are cross hatched. Imagine a checkerboard where the black squares are perfectly filled but the light squares have no pigment. To see the image at this resolution--yes, it's like pixels on a PC screen, requires an electron microscope! 2) There are several dozen details on the shroud image that match how Rome would have crucified, scourged and placed a crown of thorns on a 1st century victim--in Israel. No archaeology existed to share these details with medieval or Renaissance forgers, and archaeology only confirmed certain details in recent decades.

Taken together, we have an image that no known natural or man-made process can duplicate, though hobbyists and scientists have attempted to do so for centuries, and if we could, it was done or forged in the 1st century in Israel.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Thank you for asking. I'll give you two examples for now. 1) To see the incredibly fine work on the shroud, one must look closely. The depth of the dark patches that create the image are far less than a human hair in thickness. And the dark and light fibers alternate as they are cross hatched. Imagine a checkerboard where the black squares are perfectly filled but the light squares have no pigment. To see the image at this resolution--yes, it's like pixels on a PC screen, requires an electron microscope! 2) There are several dozen details on the shroud image that match how Rome would have crucified, scourged and placed a crown of thorns on a 1st century victim--in Israel. No archaeology existed to share these details with medieval or Renaissance forgers, and archaeology only confirmed certain details in recent decades.

Taken together, we have an image that no known natural or man-made process can duplicate, though hobbyists and scientists have attempted to do so for centuries, and if we could, it was done or forged in the 1st century in Israel.

And? i told you I am biting the bullet. For sake of discussion, that is the impression of the body of an executed man in the first century wearing a crown of thorns or whatever.

So what?

Ciao

- viole
 
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