Tzephanyahu
Member
I dunno man, I don't really play with categories and belief divisions. I just share what I've learned.
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Jesus/God/Quick question
- Thread starter Unveiled Artist
- Start date
I dunno man, I don't really play with categories and belief divisions. I just share what I've learned.
firedragon
Veteran Member
I dunno man, I don't really play with categories and belief divisions. I just share what I've learned.
Well. If subordinationism is what you learned brother, it is an early Christian heresy. A very serious heresy.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I didn't understand this.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
The scripture verses are crowding your point. Are you saying they are the same? Separate? Contradiction?
Assuming those scriptures support one side or the other, which side do they support?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
That would mean the other is false interpretation?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Hmm. Thank you. I was wondering which side this comment belonged to. Since he's the mediator between god and man, he wouldn't be god per the first quote of him being an incarnation of his father?
From what I understand of incarnations, they are inseparable from their source. So, they can't be mediums because they are the source itself. How do you interpret jesus as an incarnation but not god?
Word, from how I read it, is the father's dictations to his people. They didn't get him directly, so he incarnated his eternal Law to a person. So christians understand the father's edicts through the incarnation (Word was with god)-this means that jesus is the incarnation of god's law-and incarnation means one is human.
But how would you read or interpret incarnation?
Do you see it the same as the source?
It's different than a mirror. The reflection in the mirror is not the person it reflects. A mirror isn't a person and so the reflection shouldn't be treated as such. In this case, incarnation isn't the reflection but Is the source in the flesh. I see it both ways but the verses read as though they contradict each other.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
How do you interpret the second one to make sense of the first?
Colt
Well-Known Member
Be more specific. I'm not sure I understand your question.
Tzephanyahu
Member
I appreciate your concern, but what I've learned and shared is from the Word of God and I have peace upon as that message is harmonised throughout. It's important to unlearn church traditions and church understanding when it conflicts with Scripture.
Peace.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Okay. Which verse from the "word of God" says that God is like the president, and Jesus is second to him, etc etc?
Tzephanyahu
Member
Well there is nothing that says "president" but I'm sure you understand that I was using an analogy.
But as for the difference between Yahweh and His Son, have a read through Psalm 2.
If you can explain how Yahweh and His Son are the same person in this Psalm (as I believe you are proposing) then please share.
firedragon
Veteran Member
No. I was not asking for the word "president" and you pretty well probably know that.
Thats not what I asked. If you want to discuss God and his son, Ephraim is called "prototokos". So we can of course go there.
Subordinationism that you presented. Which verse?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Sorry. The first one is god is Jesus in Col. Since God is Jesus them Tim would be incorrect because it speaks of him as a medium.
Do you have a different interpretation of Jesus being a medium between god and man since he is god himself?
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Christians who have a relationship with christ either believe christ is god/creator (Colossians 1:15) or believe god/creator with christ as a medium (1 Timothy 2:5).
MatthewA
Active Member
God did what He had to do; Sent His Word to accomplish the purpose which the Word came to do; which was to save mankind from it's sin; and to destroy the works of the devil/Satan who was running around upon the earth back in that day before He had been destroyed. To restore connection between God and Man.
May you find the truth, as you are seeking and take care. I believe that the Word of God became flesh named Jesus and was the (Word of God) made Flesh. How that all works not sure but I believe it anyway, because I believe that the God of Israel; proclaimed to the nations of old that He was going to send a messiah who would help correct a lot of the problems going on back then and that messiah is the Son of God named Jesus Christ.
What you believe about these things is up to you ( I believe my post had scriptures to back my claims of my presentation) ; and I am not so sure what you are seeking.
Jesus/God/Quick question
A Call to Prayer
1 Timothy 2:
1First of all, then, I urge that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be offered for everyone—
2for kings and all those in authority—so that we may lead tranquil and quiet lives in all godliness and dignity.
3This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
4who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time.
7For this reason I was appointed as a preacher, an apostle, and a faithful and true teacher of the Gentiles. I am telling the truth; I am not lying about anything.
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Colt
Well-Known Member
I don't see the Son as a mediator who bargains with God on our behalf. I really do see Grandfather as the best descriptor for the relationships that we have with our celestial family.
Tzephanyahu
Member
Psalm 2 is my first answer which I would like for you to counter please.
But were you implying the son mentioned in Psalm 2 is not the Son of God? Forgive me if I have misunderstood. However it's best to clear up our point of view on this Scripture before jumping to another.
firedragon
Veteran Member
I did not make any comments of Psalm 2. I said, the topic of son is not relevant. The question I asked is, since you made that claim, which verse in the Bible makes a claim for subordinationism? I do not mention the word you used to represent YHWH pronounced because Jews revere it too much. Discussion is fine, but I would like to respect their faith. Unless it is necessary, I dont like to mention Gods name as Jews and Christians believe. Hope you understand.
your points
1. Jesus is given authority by God. Which means they are not coequal and coeternal as in the Trinitarian creed of the Athanasian formula.
2. Your analogy of president and representative or prime minister depicts subordinationism.
3. And you claimed this is in the Bible.
So which verse? I hope you now would understand the question.
MatthewA
Active Member
Some Christians would look at Jesus Christ as the mediator as Jesus Christ is the one whom delivers the prayers to God in which the God of Israel hears them; though not all prayers are answers; and not everyone is healed from their sicknesses and diseases their is still hope of afterlife rather than being here in this world that can be a handful to live in sometimes.
In Christianity; people pray to the Father in heaven, and end in saying in Jesus Christ name we pray; though not every prayer will be answered however it is something God desires for us to do to have connection with him; and to show our love for others by lifting them up to God in hopes of the person having peace, and rest in their souls.
That is one way to look at Jesus Christ as the mediator between Man and God. I believe.
In Christianity; people pray to the Father in heaven, and end in saying in Jesus Christ name we pray; though not every prayer will be answered however it is something God desires for us to do to have connection with him; and to show our love for others by lifting them up to God in hopes of the person having peace, and rest in their souls.
That is one way to look at Jesus Christ as the mediator between Man and God. I believe.
I am not sure what you mean, but, I understand Colossians means Jesus is not an incarnate of God. Jesus is dwelling of God, God acts through Jesus.
Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works. ...
John 14:10
For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things therefore which I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak."
John 12:49-50
Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews therefore said, "Forty-six years was this temple in building, and will you raise it up in three days?" But he spoke of the temple of his body.
John 2:19-21
Same can be with disciples of Jesus, because of these two:
But if the Spirit of him who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
Romans 8:11
Don't you know that you are a temple of God, and that God's Spirit lives in you?
1 Corinthians 3:16
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
My answer - both are right - The eternal Spirit (God) created all things. The eternal Spirit (God) later took on a physical body which he sacrificed for the sins of the world.
Since a Spirit doesn't have blood, God made himself a physical body to dwell in, and then sacrifice for the sins of the world. He took on the body of a man. He took on that body, so that he would be able to shed blood for our sins. The eternal Spirit (God) fathered the body, so he could call it his Son. But he (God) also dwelt in that body. So, the Messiah was God dwelling in a body. But only the physical body (which was called the son) could die, not the eternal Spirit. Then the eternal Spirit (God) raised that body up as a glorified eternal spiritual body. He then ascended into heaven and took the throne of God forever.
Therefore that body could also be called the mediator between God and man.
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