Jesus/God/Quick question

[Unveiled Artist]

I am not sure what you mean, but, I understand Colossians means Jesus is not an incarnate of God. Jesus is dwelling of God, God acts through Jesus.

Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works. ...
John 14:10

For I spoke not from myself, but the Father who sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. I know that his commandment is eternal life. The things therefore which I speak, even as the Father has said to me, so I speak."
John 12:49-50

Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." The Jews therefore said, "Forty-six years was this temple in building, and will you raise it up in three days?" But he spoke of the temple of his body.
John 2:19-21

Same can be with disciples of Jesus, because of these two:

But if the Spirit of him who raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
Romans 8:11

Don't you know that you are a temple of God, and that God's Spirit lives in you?
1 Corinthians 3:16

Hmm. So jesus being "incarnated" means his father's spirit dwells in him rather than the father's spirit becoming jesus?

Incarnate meaning dwell in a human (father in jesus) rather than something becoming human (father becoming jesus)?

 

[Tzephanyahu]

your points

1. Jesus is given authority by God. Which means they are not coequal and coeternal as in the Trinitarian creed of the Athanasian formula.
2. Your analogy of president and representative or prime minister depicts subordinationism.
3. And you claimed this is in the Bible.

So which verse? I hope you now would understand the question.

Hmm, I'm not sure where you are struggling to see my point here.

My answer to you (that is, my first answer) is Psalm 2. This Psalm speaks of the Son.

So here Yahushua is described as the son. A "subordinate" role as you may put it. As a son is never equal to or before a father (though he may share his authority in a household or kingdom). So how do you explain this psalm as confirming Yahushua and Yahweh are one and the same character?

 

[firedragon]

My answer to you (that is, my first answer) is Psalm 2. This Psalm speaks of the Son.

1. Jesus is given authority by God. Which means they are not coequal and coeternal as in the Trinitarian creed of the Athanasian formula.

So here Yahushua is described as the son. A "subordinate" role as you may put it. As a son is never equal to or before a father (though he may share his authority in a household or kingdom). So how do you explain this psalm as confirming Yahushua and Yahweh are one and the same character?

false. Thats actually just made up. There is no mention of Yeshua. Subordinate role. Nothing like that. So you made that up.

If your whole theology is based on a verse that says "Son", then as I told you Ephraim is Prototokos. Do you know what that signifies? Do some research and get back here.

Cheers.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Hi @Faithofchristian

Great questions and good point.

Yahushua is indeed the Son of Yahweh, according to His own words, the words of the prophets and of the Apostles.

And consider this, if Yahushua was the Father (as I think you're proposing), then who was He praying to in the Garden of Gethsemane? Or at anytime for that matter, such as the discourse in John chapters 16 to 17?

Now, as for "Almighty God", we need to be conscious of the original words under our English titles. "God" is often the Hebrew word "Elohim" - a plural word denoting more than one "El". We also should remember than the Messiah seems to have appeared throughout Scripture and not just the New Testament - being the very Word of Yahweh.

Therefore, if all authority of Yahweh the Father has been given to the Son - the Son is over all the heavens, the earth and all beneath the earth - as Elohim, co-regent with His Father Yahweh. But Yahushua Himself will hand back this authority to His Father one day, as we are told in 1 Corinthians 15:24.

Hopefully I've made sense to you.

Peace.

If you knew anything about the scriptures you would have know that Yahushua
( Jesus Christ) was putting forth the example for us to follow..
As Yahushua ( Jesus Christ)
praying in the garden of Gethsemane Puting forth the example how we are to earnestly....
As written in
1 Peter 2:21--"For even here unto were you called, because Yahushua ( Jesus Christ)
Also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow his steps"

Therefore Yahushua (Jesus Christ)
In the garden of Gethsemane sitting forth the example to us how to pray earnestly if it something means that much to us ..even to the point in having blood come down from our foreheads..
When you pray how much does it mean to you to have your prayers answered by Yahushua (Jesus Christ)..

 

[blü 2]

I posted this as a reply in another forum, but thought this was odd. Q & A.

Christians who have a relationship with christ either believe christ is god/creator (Colossians 1:15) or believe god/creator with christ as a medium (1 Timothy 2:5).

Which is right: Is jesus god/creator or is jesus a medium between god/creator and man?

There we go.

There are five versions of Jesus in the NT.

Every single one of them states that he's NOT God eg (and there are many more than these)

Paul: Philippians 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Mark 12: 29 Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one;
30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [...]
32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;

Matthew
Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.”

Luke 18:18 And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”

John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”​

And appropriately, none of them ever says "I am God".

Indeed, if Jesus were actually God then his mission in all five versions was one of unremitting deceit, a dishonesty underlying the entire proceedings.

As for Jesus being mediator between God and man, this is clearest in John, also in Paul, and not part of the synoptics, whose message is Get ready ─ the Kingdom of God on Earth will be established in your lifetime ~ Mark 9:1, Mark 13:28, Matthew 10:23, Matthew 16:28, Matthew 24:32, Luke 9:27.

 

[Neuropteron]

The scripture verses are crowding your point. Are you saying they are the same? Separate? Contradiction?

Assuming those scriptures support one side or the other, which side do they support?

Hi,
If a person called Bob looks in a mirror he sees his reflection. It's just an image not Bob himself.

But It is for you to decide what you want to believe.
"If you call out for understanding and discernment, in that case you will understand..."Prov 23-

 

[1213]

Hmm. So jesus being "incarnated" means his father's spirit dwells in him rather than the father's spirit becoming jesus?

Incarnate meaning dwell in a human (father in jesus) rather than something becoming human (father becoming jesus)?

I have understood that incarnate means that one is for example born in a new different form. In the case of Jesus, God is not born in the form of Jesus. God is just dwelling in Jesus, similarly as He can be in disciples of Jesus. Jesus is own person, but he is influenced by God. Basically God leads Jesus and that way God is in Jesus.