Jesus in the Quran makes no sense

[SugarOcean]

Yes. But where and how did you draw a line from the religion to the terrorism and back?

Have you read the Qur'an?

 

[Wasp]

Have you read the Qur'an?

Yes. I'm a Muslim.

 

[Shad]

So basically the Quran says that the Jews wanted to kill Jesus but at the same time they say Jesus only came to confirm the Torah, why would they want to kill him if that's the case? It makes no sense.

It was a specific group with government power not all Jews. This is obvious as he, Jesus, had Jews that were his followers.

What makes less sense though is why would Allah confound people into believing that Jesus had died by replacing him if that would mean that the Gospels accounts are completely true (they couldn't possibly know that Jesus had been replaced by someone who looked just like him) and therefore starting a religion that according to Islam is corrupted but the only one to blame for that corruption would be Allah for confounding people who had no way to know that Jesus hadn't died.

The Quran theology rejects Christian mainstream theology. The Quran is replacement theology using the basis that Christian interpretation is wrong.

Also Jesus in the Quran is one of the main prophets but he doesn't really acomplish anything. His mission is not clear and Allah knew that his message would get corrupted as soon after people thought he had died.

The Quran only asserts there is a purpose only in context of replacement theology.

If I had to bet it seems to me that Muslims wanted to make a hybrid between Judaism and Christianity but didn't know what to say about Jesus so they came up with a story that makes no sense.

Christians did this well before Islam.

Other prophets in Islam like Moses or Muhammed seem to have a clear purpose, Moses was given the law, Muhammad is the seal of all Prophets.

Yes as the core theology regarding Mose is not questioned like the NT Christian interpretation is.

However Jesus is one of the most important ones but his mission in Islam just seems to be to confirm what was already said without really adding anything new, which doesn't explain why would Jews want to kill him and even worse than that he ends up creating a corrupted religion that would become the largest in the world and only Allah is to fault.

Again the Quran only talks about Jesus in reference to the NT.

As I said, it seems like they wanted to make a hybrid betweek Judaism and Christianity but didn't really know what role give to Jesus.

Again it is a rejection of Christian mainstream theology like the Trinity vs Monotheism. Islam does not accept the Trinity as Monotheism

 

[Wasp]

It was a specific group with government power not all Jews. This is obvious as he, Jesus, had Jews that were his followers.

Couldn't the followers have been the 'specific group'?

 

[1213]

So basically the Quran says that the Jews wanted to kill Jesus but at the same time they say Jesus only came to confirm the Torah, why would they want to kill him if that's the case? It makes no sense.
....

I think you have good point. It is interesting also that Quran says:


…The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah …..believe in Allah and His messengers. …
Surat An-Nisā' 4:171
http://quran.com/4/171

Makes me wonder why they don’t believe the messenger of Allah.

 

[Wasp]

I think you have good point. It is interesting also that Quran says:


…The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah …..believe in Allah and His messengers. …
Surat An-Nisā' 4:171
http://quran.com/4/171

Makes me wonder why they don’t believe the messenger of Allah.

Pardon?

 

[SugarOcean]

Yes. I'm a Muslim.

Are you.
Then you're aware of the Jizya and the Medina ideology. And those sura that describe Jihad. Sura that were written after the peaceful verses.

 

[Wasp]

Are you.
Then you're aware of the Jizya and the Medina ideology. And those sura that describe Jihad. Sura that were written after the peaceful verses.

Is that supposed to relate to terrorism?

 

[Mustopha]

So basically the Quran says that the Jews wanted to kill Jesus but at the same time they say Jesus only came to confirm the Torah, why would they want to kill him if that's the case? It makes no sense.
What makes less sense though is why would Allah confound people into believing that Jesus had died by replacing him if that would mean that the Gospels accounts are completely true (they couldn't possibly know that Jesus had been replaced by someone who looked just like him) and therefore starting a religion that according to Islam is corrupted but the only one to blame for that corruption would be Allah for confounding people who had no way to know that Jesus hadn't died.

Also Jesus in the Quran is one of the main prophets but he doesn't really acomplish anything. His mission is not clear and Allah knew that his message would get corrupted as soon after people thought he had died.

If I had to bet it seems to me that Muslims wanted to make a hybrid between Judaism and Christianity but didn't know what to say about Jesus so they came up with a story that makes no sense.
Other prophets in Islam like Moses or Muhammed seem to have a clear purpose, Moses was given the law, Muhammad is the seal of all Prophets.
However Jesus is one of the most important ones but his mission in Islam just seems to be to confirm what was already said without really adding anything new, which doesn't explain why would Jews want to kill him and even worse than that he ends up creating a corrupted religion that would become the largest in the world and only Allah is to fault.

As I said, it seems like they wanted to make a hybrid betweek Judaism and Christianity but didn't really know what role give to Jesus.

You should research more and know why the Jews want to kill Jesus, this is an undisputed fact, Jews are known for there constant killing of there prophets and sinning.

 

[Shad]

Couldn't the followers have been the 'specific group'?

Both are specific groups. You need to read the NT.

 

[Prestor John]

So basically the Quran says that the Jews wanted to kill Jesus but at the same time they say Jesus only came to confirm the Torah, why would they want to kill him if that's the case? It makes no sense.
What makes less sense though is why would Allah confound people into believing that Jesus had died by replacing him if that would mean that the Gospels accounts are completely true (they couldn't possibly know that Jesus had been replaced by someone who looked just like him) and therefore starting a religion that according to Islam is corrupted but the only one to blame for that corruption would be Allah for confounding people who had no way to know that Jesus hadn't died.

Also Jesus in the Quran is one of the main prophets but he doesn't really acomplish anything. His mission is not clear and Allah knew that his message would get corrupted as soon after people thought he had died.

If I had to bet it seems to me that Muslims wanted to make a hybrid between Judaism and Christianity but didn't know what to say about Jesus so they came up with a story that makes no sense.
Other prophets in Islam like Moses or Muhammed seem to have a clear purpose, Moses was given the law, Muhammad is the seal of all Prophets.
However Jesus is one of the most important ones but his mission in Islam just seems to be to confirm what was already said without really adding anything new, which doesn't explain why would Jews want to kill him and even worse than that he ends up creating a corrupted religion that would become the largest in the world and only Allah is to fault.

As I said, it seems like they wanted to make a hybrid betweek Judaism and Christianity but didn't really know what role give to Jesus.

Thank you! Islam is garbage.

 

[Mudramoksha]

but didn't really know what role give to Jesus.

Jesus makes far greater sense in the Qur'an then it does in the NT, lmao. Seriously, you must have a lot to struggle with all that contradiction, not only among four "gospels" but all those epistles and John's Apocalypse. None of it makes any sense. The only thing you can do as a Christian is simplify and dogmatize your doctrine.

The Qur'an makes incredible sense, it says Jesus was only a Prophet and was a wise teacher that was raised. Nothing particularly bad about that, but you're a Christian, so!

 

[Wasp]

Jesus makes far greater sense in the Qur'an then it does in the NT, lmao. Seriously, you must have a lot to struggle with all that contradiction, not only among four "gospels" but all those epistles and John's Apocalypse. None of it makes any sense. The only thing you can do as a Christian is simplify and dogmatize your doctrine.

The Qur'an makes incredible sense, it says Jesus was only a Prophet and was a wise teacher that was raised. Nothing particularly bad about that, but you're a Christian, so!

If Jesus didn't die at the Cross the Christians all risk actually facing the hellfire.

 

[Mudramoksha]

If Jesus didn't die at the Cross the Christians all risk actually facing the hellfire.

Yes, I agree, Christians really need to think more seriously about if they trust the early Church's compilation of two dozen assorted texts (out of an even larger bunch of texts) as their salvation, when they're not even first-hand accounts.
It goes to show that Christianity will never have anything to go on when the very statements of their "messiah" contradict their own doctrines about him.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Jesus makes far greater sense in the Qur'an then it does in the NT, lmao. Seriously, you must have a lot to struggle with all that contradiction, not only among four "gospels" but all those epistles and John's Apocalypse. None of it makes any sense. The only thing you can do as a Christian is simplify and dogmatize your doctrine.

The Qur'an makes incredible sense, it says Jesus was only a Prophet and was a wise teacher that was raised. Nothing particularly bad about that, but you're a Christian, so!

OK, so what does the Quran say?
Did Jesus die on the cross, or not?
lets realy see how much sense the Quran makes about Jesus

 

[Mudramoksha]

OK, so what does the Quran say?
Did Jesus die on the cross, or not?

That he didn't. It's straight forward, unlike Christianity and deification of a mere man (prophet or not).

 

[SA Huguenot]

That he didn't. It's straight forward, unlike Christianity and deification of a mere man (prophet or not).

OK,
You say the Quran is clear, Jesus was never crucified and killed on the Cross.
Sura 4: 157.
Now read further and you will see how the Quran destroys itself.
it says: "But it was made to appear!"

OK, so what the Quran say is that the Crucifixion of Jesus was a staged concert by Allah!
Therefore, the people who say Jesus die on the cross, did see Jesus die on the cross.
But it was only because Allah lied to them!

Now the Quran should explain, these witnesses; did they record the crucifixion truthfully?
Well, they did record the Gospels and they did say they saw Jesus die on the cross, however they would not have known that it was one big lie constructed by Allah.
Am I correct?

Furthermore, the Quran states numerously that Allah revealed the Torah and Gospel, no man can change Allah's words, the Muslims must believe in the Bible, Christians must judge by the Gospel, Muhammad must go to the Christians if he doubds his revelations, etc.

Now, here is how the Quran destroys itself

• Jesus was created and eventually were to be crucified.
• Somehow Allah made this great show where all Jesus' followers witnessed the crucifixion and death of Jesus.
• these witnesses went and recorderd what they saw, and described in detail how Allah showed a movie on how Jesus died.
• 600 years later Allah reveals to Humanity that it was all one big lie, and that Jesus never died on the cross, and was never crucified.
• This means that because Allah claims the Gospel is his revelations, and his revelations can not be changed, the witnesses to the crucifixion did not lie on what they recoreded, but it was by Allah's admission that he cheated everyone.
• for 600 years, Christianity grew throughout the world, and then Allah changed his mind on Christianity, and decided to remove Jesus from the Cross.

I call Islam the greatest show on earth!

 

[Wasp]

Therefore, the people who say Jesus die on the cross, did see Jesus die on the cross.
But it was only because Allah lied to them!

Poor executioners.

Furthermore, the Quran states numerously that Allah revealed the Torah and Gospel, no man can change Allah's words, the Muslims must believe in the Bible,

They believe in the gospel. Bible is not mentioned in the Qur'an.

Christians must judge by the Gospel, Muhammad must go to the Christians if he doubds his revelations, etc.

Pardon?

• This means that because Allah claims the Gospel is his revelations, and his revelations can not be changed, the witnesses to the crucifixion did not lie on what they recoreded, but it was by Allah's admission that he cheated everyone.

The Qur'an confirms the gospel - the revelation given to Jesus, not the words of other people.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Yes. I'm a Muslim.

Sunni or Shia?

 

[Wasp]

Sunni or Shia?

Sunni.