Jesus is at the Door

[Kenny]

Let's just answer the actual question.



The cartoon, and the question, is about how to get out of receiving punishment.

As a murderer do you get an out-of-jail freecard, or do you get even rewarded with eternal bliss, if you believe the judge exists?


Your "analogy" here is not only false, it's a dodge of the question.

Only if you want to dodge the issue. In essence you also want a get-out-of-jail free card. It is all a matter of perspective.

 

[Kenny]

Will you "pray" for one?



I'll tell you what, if I get it - I'll keep it and become a christian.

When can I expect it and how will I recognise it?

I GOT IT!... He is sending it "Personal Delivery"! and He asked me to deliver it to you!!!

Dear @TagliatelliMonster,

I have opened the door for you to be one with me. Like when two people say "I do" and, upon completion, all that one person has (assets and liabilities) becomes part of the other... that is what I want with you.

I know you have very little assets as compared to me, but I'm not in it for the money, I just want relationship. I have forgiveness for your faults; I have health for your sickness; I have peace for your worries; I have supply for your needs... I will NEVER leave you nor forsake you.!

Would you accept my proposal? All you have to do is just trust me in every decision... by making me the leader of our relationship! Just know, the very purpose of my life is to give it to you and everything you need, so don't worry, I will not abuse the relationship. On the contrary, I have and always will sacrifice my life for yours!

Would you accept me as your Lord and Savior so we can be one?

Signed,

Jesus.

c/o
Ken

Forum leaders: This is not proselytizing, TagliageMonster asked me to send him the message.

 

[Deeje]

I read your entire post and it seems to me your long preach simply confirms the central idea that the cartoon is conveying.

Answer this simple question: can an atheist who knows about the bible and christianity, yet disbelieves still, enter paradise or is the atheist doomed for being an unbeliever?

Well that just made me smile

.....after saying that you read my entire post, how can you still ask that question....?

Is there a comprehension problem?

The old saying ..."you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear" somehow rings true in this question.

You can't force a atheist to become a believer.....the atheist has to come to his/her own conclusions based on what is in their own heart. A haughty spirit.....one that can stand above God and look down on him and mock him will be allowed to do just that because its all about who we are, and how we see the world, and who we believe. God will not interfere with any of that......he allows us all to be 'caught in the act of being ourselves'.

We are given options....and we can choose which one to apply. To know the outcome of an action is death and still choose it is rather foolish though, don't you think?....unless you view it as martyrdom.

A Theocracy is not a Democracy......it is rule by God. If you don't want to be ruled by God then you have the option of not choosing that.....but it means forfeiting your existence, because there is nowhere for unbelievers to go. There is no "heaven or hell" scenario given in the Bible.....it is simply everlasting life or everlasting death.....there are no other options on the table.

At the "end" we will have placed ourselves in either one camp or the other (sheep or goats) with no interference from God at all. There are only two camps...two roads....and we get to choose our own path and along with it, we choose our destination. (Matthew 7:13-14) That way God doesn't have to judge us...we will have judged ourselves. How is that not fair?

God is looking for those who qualify for citizenship in his incoming kingdom.....no unbeliever, rebel or disobedient ones will qualify because God has no use for those who see themselves as more important than their Creator or who want to dictate their own terms for life.

If you apply for citizenship in another country, there is criteria that you need to meet....if you fail, your citizenship will be denied. That is as simple as I can make it.....

 

[rational experiences]

You are either a very wise person or you have not taken your medication.

And you can only be a self deceitful a theist or a dis spirited AI machine owned psyche. For you always attack the person and not even bother discussing information.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Nothing an atheist would understand.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Only if you want to dodge the issue. In essence you also want a get-out-of-jail free card. It is all a matter of perspective.

The matter of the issue is the idea that all humans are hell-bound because god decided it to be so and that all those who believe he exists and accepts that his sacrificial scapegoat suicide saved them from the punishment he himself designed, get to be rewarded with eternal bliss instead.

So your murder in a court case analogy is irrelevant, because over here in the real world, we don't give a freepass to murderers for such absurd reasons. Nore are the judges the lawmakers.
It is irrelevant to the question or the cartoon.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I GOT IT!... He is sending it "Personal Delivery"! and He asked me to deliver it to you!!!

Dear @TagliatelliMonster,

I have opened the door for you to be one with me. Like when two people say "I do" and, upon completion, all that one person has (assets and liabilities) becomes part of the other... that is what I want with you.

I know you have very little assets as compared to me, but I'm not in it for the money, I just want relationship. I have forgiveness for your faults; I have health for your sickness; I have peace for your worries; I have supply for your needs... I will NEVER leave you nor forsake you.!

Would you accept my proposal? All you have to do is just trust me in every decision... by making me the leader of our relationship! Just know, the very purpose of my life is to give it to you and everything you need, so don't worry, I will not abuse the relationship. On the contrary, I have and always will sacrifice my life for yours!

Would you accept me as your Lord and Savior so we can be one?

Signed,

Jesus.

c/o
Ken

Forum leaders: This is not proselytizing, TagliageMonster asked me to send him the message.

So... the all-knowing, all-powerfull master of the universe and everything... thought it was a good idea to communicate this message to me through this medium, which would rank among the lowest of lowest on my standards of credibility?


Sounds legit.

 

[Kenny]

The matter of the issue is the idea that all humans are hell-bound because god decided it to be so and that all those who believe he exists and accepts that his sacrificial scapegoat suicide saved them from the punishment he himself designed, get to be rewarded with eternal bliss instead.

So your murder in a court case analogy is irrelevant, because over here in the real world, we don't give a freepass to murderers for such absurd reasons. Nore are the judges the lawmakers.
It is irrelevant to the question or the cartoon.

Well.... if that is your version, OK.

But I still think my murder version is still a great analogy using your first position as its basis.

 

[Kenny]

So... the all-knowing, all-powerfull master of the universe and everything... thought it was a good idea to communicate this message to me through this medium, which would rank among the lowest of lowest on my standards of credibility?


Sounds legit.

ABSOLUTELY! Has done that from the time of Adam!

1 Corinthians 1:27
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

He will use you too!!!

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Well.... if that is your version, OK.

What's particularly wrong with it according to "your version"?

"all humans are hell-bound because god decided it to be so "

Essentially the story of the fall, isn't it?
In a literal reading, 2 humans disobeyed. In a more metaphorical reading, a population/culture disobeyed.
As a result, God doomed mankind and kicked them out of the garden. This ultimately puts them in need of a saviour, right?

It is God that did that. He made the decision. He could have decided otherwise. He could have limited the doom to just them and not their innocent off spring. He could have just forgiven them then and their instead of thousands of years later through a long melodramatic snuff show.

I'm just saying... it was his decision, right? And god is an agent that can make free decisions, not some deterministic force that theoretically can be described in a single equation, correct?

"all those who believe he exists and accepts that his sacrificial scapegoat suicide saved them from the punishment he himself designed"

So this saviour is Jesus, who's god son and who's also god himself somehow. So his life gets sacrificed for the sins of mankind, and if you as a human accept this sacrifice then this somehow absolves your from the doom over your head, put there by god - or Jesus, if you will. Almost like the breaking of a spell or enchantment.

The doom is off course designed by this god. As creator of all, he also designed the eternal torture chambers (literal or figurative) where the souls that were doomed by him will dwell forever and ever.


So which of these would you disagree with and why?

But I still think my murder version is still a great analogy using your first position as its basis.

Not sure what "first position" you are refering to, but as I have explained, your analogy isn't valid.

The point you were trying to make was about what puts you in jail.
While the actual point is about what gives you a get-out-of-jail card.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

ABSOLUTELY! Has done that from the time of Adam!

1 Corinthians 1:27
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

He will use you too!!!

Ok.
What a missed opportunity, I'ld say.

Now if this god of yours would've just added some neat thing in there that you couldn't have possibly known about... like something about my kids or a meeting I'ld have later this week or something.

Now that would really honestly make me take a step back and say "...WOW..."
SO many ways that this could've been mighty impressive. But alas....

Instead, you slammed me with the most stereotypical old generic "come join my club" advertisement you could think of it seems.


/disappointed

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

And you can only be a self deceitful a theist or a dis spirited AI machine owned psyche. For you always attack the person and not even bother discussing information.

I attack no one. But simply answered your meaningless words with more meaningless words.

 

[rational experiences]

I attack no one. But simply answered your meaningless words with more meaningless words.

I thought the word was God and that modern day science is searching for it!

 

[Kenny]

Ok.
What a missed opportunity, I'ld say.

Hmmm... maybe that's where your last invite went. A missed opportunity

Now if this god of yours would've just added some neat thing in there that you couldn't have possibly known about... like something about my kids or a meeting I'ld have later this week or something.

Now that would really honestly make me take a step back and say "...WOW..."
SO many ways that this could've been mighty impressive. But alas....

You mean you don't know who your kids are?

Why should He impress you? He already resurrected Jesus, if that didn't impress you, maybe there is something deeper going inside you.

Instead, you slammed me with the most stereotypical old generic "come join my club" advertisement you could think of it seems.

WHHAAAAAAATTTT? You asked for it and then blame me? !!!!!! Besides, It isn't a club, it's a family. Clubbing is done here on earth.

Please don't blame the messenger, you don't have to become part of the family. That's just between you and your Creator.

/disappointed

Really? I don't think so.

 

[Kenny]

What's particularly wrong with it according to "your version"?

"all humans are hell-bound because god decided it to be so "

1) God didn't decide that. He decided to have a way so that people won't be separated. It was man's free will that decides.
2) Children, as far as I can tell, aren't hell bound

Essentially the story of the fall, isn't it?
In a literal reading, 2 humans disobeyed. In a more metaphorical reading, a population/culture disobeyed.
As a result, God doomed mankind and kicked them out of the garden. This ultimately puts them in need of a saviour, right?

Well... that's where our stories differ. Back to blaming the judge for sending the murderer for going to jail.. Hmmm... apparently the analogy still works. Or, "DAD, you shouldn't have spanked me for lying--you are so mean!" Or a thousand other analogies (if you apply them without twisting it out of context.

Amplified reading, "Son, you have a free-will . Love demands a choice because love isn't forced on someone. You have to decide who you want to love. I have given you all of the earth and just kept one single tree for me. Don't eat of it because there are spiritual/physical laws that are built into this creation. Some people can call it "sowing and reaping", others can call it karma", still others may call it "for every action there is a reaction" but however you want to call it... you have a free will to determine your destiny. Don't eat it, there is a death sentence because there is much more to the eating of it than just digesting food. There is a spiritual decision to it.

It is God that did that. He made the decision. He could have decided otherwise. He could have limited the doom to just them and not their innocent off spring. He could have just forgiven them then and their instead of thousands of years later through a long melodramatic snuff show.

Who said He didn't? Forgiveness was extended to those who existed before Jesus, those during Jesus and those after Jesus... but you can be melodramatic if you want.

'm just saying... it was his decision, right? And god is an agent that can make free decisions, not some deterministic force that theoretically can be described in a single equation, correct?

"all those who believe he exists and accepts that his sacrificial scapegoat suicide saved them from the punishment he himself designed"

Yes... blame the judge for making the rules and executing them... As if you don't raise your children with your own rules and punishments. Would you let your children use the above excuses? I don't think so.

So this saviour is Jesus, who's god son and who's also god himself somehow. So his life gets sacrificed for the sins of mankind, and if you as a human accept this sacrifice then this somehow absolves your from the doom over your head, put there by god - or Jesus, if you will. Almost like the breaking of a spell or enchantment.

Are you upset because God is merciful?

The doom is off course designed by this god. As creator of all, he also designed the eternal torture chambers (literal or figurative) where the souls that were doomed by him will dwell forever and ever.

Please review all of above... it is too easy to create your own scenario to then tear it apart.