The Father is God in Judaism, Islam, and the Baha'i Faith.
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Jesus is God, vs Jesus isn't g- d, same religion?[no
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
The Father is God in Judaism, Islam, and the Baha'i Faith.
Christianity is define very specifically in the English language even though the beliefs in the different churches and even individuals may vary.
From: https://www.google.com/search?q=chr...69i60l3j0l2.9174j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Christianity - the religion based on the person and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, or its beliefs and practices.
Just interested if you know where in Islam it is mentioned. As far as I know because the Quran affirms the Gospels as being from God then it also accepts the term Father as mentioned in them.
The term used in Judaism does not translate to God being the literal physical Father of Jesus Christ. This is in reality only a literal concept in Christianity with the belief in the Trinity. The translation from Hebrew is a metaphor for one of the titles or attributes referring to God. The translation in Islam would not be literally the Father in translation from Hebrew, but the use of the terminology of the Tanakh translated as a metaphor concerning titles or attributes of God of at least 99. The translation of the name ’al-Mubdi’ meaning The Originator, The Producer, The Initiator.
Again the word Father would not be used in Islam, only the concept of a metaphor for one of the names or attribute of God when translating from Hebrew.
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MJFlores
Well-Known Member
It is amazing that you know that the Lord Jesus Christ is not God but united in purpose with God.
Are these things thought in Baha'i Faith?
Correct me if I am wrong, is Baha'i Faith something of a mixture of Christian religion + Islam + Buddhism?
Not amazing from the perspective of the Baha'i. ALL the Manifestations of God throughout the history of humanity are united in the purpose with God since humans first became humans, and knew God.
Yes, as revealed in the Baha'i Faith. The concept of the singular Oneness and Unity of God is shared by Judaism and Islam.
Not a mixture, but a product of progressive Revelation restoring the simple truth of the Oneness and Unity of God, and the universal relationship of all humanity at one through Revelation. The different religions relate to the people at the time they were revealed. It is human desires and cultural images that create the differences and God and no-God in their own images.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
When you don't use the right words, your statements are vague, or lose their meaning.
So for example , John 1:1
Jesus in scripture is a manifestation of G- d,
John 1:1-12
The words here being used correctly.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
How do you mix Judaism, Islam and Christianity?
Where do Mohammad and Christ go together?
Who is the head of Baha'i? Is it Christ, Mohammad or Moses?
When doctrinal conflict arises among books which will prevail Old Testament, New Testament or Qumran?
Do Baha'i eat pork? How about shrimp and crabs?
Happy to talk to you. Yes this is our belief about Jesus. There is also a most beautiful tribute to Jesus by the Founder of our religion, Baha’u’llah. It ends praising those who have turned to Jesus......
Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.
Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 85-86
We believe throughout history, God has sent to humanity a series of divine Educators—known as Manifestations of God—whose teachings have provided the basis for the advancement of civilization. These Manifestations have included Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad. Bahá’u’lláh, the latest of these Messengers, explained that the religions of the world come from the same Source and are in essence successive chapters of one religion from God.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
If Jesus is the manifestation of God, is he God?
Or it was a mistake to use the word "manifestation"?
How many Gods are there?
man·i·fes·ta·tion
Dictionary result for manifestation
/ˌmanəfəˈstāSH(ə)n,ˌmanəˌfesˈtāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: manifestation; plural noun: manifestations
an event, action, or object that clearly shows or embodies something, especially a theory or an abstract idea.
"the first obvious manifestations of global warming"
- the action or fact of showing an abstract idea.
"the manifestation of anxiety over the upcoming exams"
synonyms: display, demonstration, showing, show, exhibition, presentation, indication, illustration, exemplification, exposition, disclosure, declaration, expression, profession
"the manifestation of anxiety" - a symptom or sign of an ailment.
"a characteristic manifestation of Lyme disease"
synonyms: sign, indication, evidence, proof, token, symptom, testimony, substantiation, mark, symbol, reflection, example, instance
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Supposing there are doctrinal conflicts among books, which book should be upheld?
Would it be the old testament Bible?
Would it be the new testament Bible?
Would it be the Qumran?
Would it be the Tripitaka (Pali Canon), Mahayana Sutras and the Tibetan Book of the Dead?
Would it be the Vedas?
For example: the Old Testament [Judaism] pork, shrimp and crabs shouldn't be eaten but in the New Testament [Gospel of Jesus Christ] these are ok, Qumran these foods are not ok - so how do you reconcile these?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Another example is the argument,
'G- d can mean anything, the only name Biblically that means G- d is [ usually argued as the Tetragrammaton
Then followed with 'Jesus isn't G- d'.
Now, these concepts don't go together. They literally don't make sense, however you also have no inferred meaning when they write 'G- d'. In other words, you are in a meaningless discussion.
That argument requires specification of the Tetragrammaton.
'G- d can mean anything, the only name Biblically that means G- d is [ usually argued as the Tetragrammaton
Then followed with 'Jesus isn't G- d'.
Now, these concepts don't go together. They literally don't make sense, however you also have no inferred meaning when they write 'G- d'. In other words, you are in a meaningless discussion.
That argument requires specification of the Tetragrammaton.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
In modern Judaism, they could not write God as God
G-d as you write it.
Why omit the O?
I just wonder, if you talk to another person would you say G d instead of God?
For me God is the one who created all of us, he is the Father. Malachi 2:10
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
According to the Scripture, Jesus is G- d. John 1:10.
We have 'literalisms', in other words.
John 1:1
2 Corinthians 6:18
'Lord almighty', just one example of this, however note that with a form of quasi- trinitarianism, one can derive different deities. That's great, however because of other context,
Matthew 22:37, this has to be reconciled with other Scripture, in the Old Testament.
Matthew 22:37-47
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Jesus to me is JHVH with us, however not JHVH. I also don't have quite the same literalness idea that is actually present in Scripture. Note that I'm not baptized, don't attend church, so forth.
So when I personally say 'God', I just mean JHVH. Ie not a standard Christian. Jesus is connected to Elohim concept, why I call Him G'd.
My beliefs aren't Biblical, really, in other words.
[New testament
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
I write it both ways, varies by context. Also write, god, and g- d, contextually.
Very good question. Thanks for that. There are different ways of approaching this.
We Baha’is believe such laws were not permanent but revealed for each religion according to the needs of the age they were revealed and maybe health risks such as storage of pork in the hot desert. For whatever reason it was for that time we believe. In today’s world with such things as fridges and freezers Baha’u’llah has lifted these restrictions.
But each religion will follow its own laws. However these fall more under social laws than doctrinal as they are not spiritual things. Spiritually Baha’is believe religions as far as morals, virtues and ethics go are one in essence.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Former JHVH witness? Just my guess.
My first guess would have been, a former 7th day Adventist.
Well, I don't blame people when they are disillusioned from their former churches. Basically it is their choice - if they feel they couldn't feel the love of God, then it would be a waste of time to stay. For me it is for the knowledge of the truth and about feeling that promise and hope of salvation.
It is my faith that Jesus Christ is a man, a very special man.
So special that God made him his Son and gave him a name above every other name that everyone should kneel in his name to glorify the Father.
Let us check John 1:1-4 using NIV for better comprehension
John 1:1-4 New International Version (NIV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
If we were to superimpose the Word as Jesus Christ [which people say "Jesus is the Word hence he is God"] and recast the wording this is how it would look like:
In the beginning was Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ was with God, and Jesus Christ was God. Jesus Christ was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
What would result? There will be 2 gods - Jesus Christ and the god who was with Jesus Christ..
This will render the teaching of the Bible and the Lord Jesus in error:
Deuteronomy 6:4 New International Version (NIV)
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
Mark 12:29 New International Version (NIV)
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
The Bible did not say the Lord our Gods are TWO. The Lord our God is ONE. so what is the correct bible translation of John 1:1-4?
John 1
Moffatt(i) 1 THE Logos existed in the very beginning, the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine. 2 He was with God in the very beginning: 3 through him all existence came into being, no existence came into being apart from him. 4 In him life lay, and this life was the Light for men:
John 1 THE Logos existed in the very beginning, the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine.
The Word = The Logos
The Logos defined: Logos - Wikipedia
Logos (UK: /ˈloʊɡɒs, ˈlɒɡɒs/, US: /ˈloʊɡoʊs/; Ancient Greek: λόγος, translit. lógos; from λέγω, légō, lit. 'I say') is a term in Western philosophy, psychology, rhetoric, and religion derived from a Greek word variously meaning "ground", "plea", "opinion", "expectation", "word", "speech", "account", "reason", "proportion", and "discourse"
So the Word is the Logos is the Expectation about Jesus Christ is the Thought about Jesus Christ
Now would that make sense?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Judaism doesn't use the new testament, also doesn't have the same theology, as ""christianity"" so your comment is abstract. If your comment were 'literal', Jews wouldn't be able to use the name G- d, for judaism deity.
So, in other words, the methodology maintains [basically, throughout the Bible.
So, if a Jew is using the words incorrectly, it would be in the same manner as a Xian, aside from interpretational variance, like could be in Genesis 1:26. Interpretation not affecting the word usage.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
In the Epistles, time and again, you encounter 'G-d our father, [and the Lord Jesus Christ'. In other words, 'Lord' for the father, is actually more of a religious belief determined from the entire text, like the Old Testament.
So, there are 'two Lords', in other words.
Matthew 22:44
Matthew 22:43
Now, note interpretation, 2 Corinthians 6:18, which Lord is that?
'Angel of the Lord', another, which Lord? The " father"? Are you sure? Doesn't Jesus say the sacrifice is of His own accord? Jesus commands angels, also. Ever read those verses?
• however concerning the 'Logos', the idea is that Jesus is a manifestation of the Logos, which is called G- d.
John 1:1
John 1:10
John 1:1-12
So, how 'non literal' are you willing to interpret the text?