Jesus is God?

[Khale]

I know that there are a good many christians out their who believe that those who follow the jewish religion need to be saved because they do not worship Jesus. So, quick question:

Jesus is God(YHWH). It seems to me that we are worshipping the same deity. Am I correct? Why or why not?

 

[Scuba Pete]

You are correct.

You are waiting for the messiah we claim has already come.

 

[goodjewishboy]

Is the world at peace right now? Has it ever been since the coming of Jesus? There are many reasons Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah. I'm not going to go into all of them now but I will make a couple points. I think the biggest one is that the messiach will mark the coming of Ein Sof, the healing of the world, where nation shall not fight against nation, swords shall be beaten into plowshares, etc.

Another sticking point is the whole idea of the divinity of jesus and the necessity to believe in him as such to be 'saved' from some kind of hell. Personally, that whole concept does not make much sense to me. Judaism does not compel any particular belief in the hopes of future reward. I try to do good for the sake of bringing myself closer to HaShem in this life, to do my part in making this world a better place.

I do not deny that Jesus was not a good person, and I could possibly be convinced of his prophethood, but I can't be convinced in his divinity or his claims to being messiach.

 

[joeboonda]

Could it be that the Messiah came first to pay for the sin of the world, and will come again to rule and bring peace? There are over 300 prophecies concerning the Messiah in the Old Testament that were fulfilled in Jesus. How about Isaiah chapter 53, have you read that? There are 27 prophecies in the old testament concerning the events of the crucifixion alone. If you are at all interested, I could list some with the verses, let me know. Jesus was always explaining that he must first suffer in order to fulfill all the Old Testament prophecies, but they didn't get it because they were looking for the Glorious Messiah who would set up his Kingdom. Not until he was ressurected, did they understand. Anyway, just tell me if you need some verses that have the prophecies about him in the Old Testament, I know you believe in the Old Testament, right?

 

[Khale]

I understand that there are disagreements on who the messiah is, but I don't believe the scriptures, hebrew or christian, require us to worship the messiah. As I see it we are to worship God. While the messiah is an important individual and may be God in human form we are still supposed to be worshipping God, not his human form.

There are 27 prophecies in the old testament concerning the events of the crucifixion alone. If you are at all interested, I could list some with the verses, let me know.

I would love to hear these prophecies, but could you post them in a new thread so as not to clutter this one?

 

[jewscout]

Jesus was always explaining that he must first suffer in order to fulfill all the Old Testament prophecies, but they didn't get it because they were looking for the Glorious Messiah who would set up his Kingdom

there is nothing about the death of jesus that fits with the prophecies of the Moshiach ben David. The Moshiach will be a king, like David before him, he will bring in the jews back to the land of Eretz Yisrael, reestablish the temple and it's services, and rule over the nation as a king, and then he will die and his son will rule after him, and so on and so on.

like GJB i do not deny that he was a good person, and IMPO i believe he may have been a messenger sent by HaShem to bring His message to the non-jewish world (which it has along w/ islam)
but i do not believe he is Moshiach nor do i believe him to be G-d incarnate or something else...

 

[JOSEF THE PROPHET]

CHRIST IS A GOD. NOT AS GREAT AS JEHOVAH (THE FATHER), BUT GOD NONETHELESS.

 

[Khale]

CHRIST IS A GOD. NOT AS GREAT AS JEHOVAH (THE FATHER), BUT GOD NONETHELESS.

Please, elaborate on this (preferably in lower case). Why is Christ less than God? Why is he a god? Are you suggesting that there are multiple gods?

 

[CDB]

"Please, elaborate on this (preferably in lower case). Why is Christ less than God? Why is he a god? Are you suggesting that there are multiple gods?"

There is only one God.
He is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
He is a singular entity with a singular personality.

Trinitarians try to make God three persons in one God - God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
This is impossible, since a son cannot be his own father and God has no father, therefore the son cannot be The Father.

In a way however, you can say Jesus IS God.
His Father is God, and since he has no blood/substance in him other than God's (Mary was nothing more than an incubator for the flesh body that became Jesus the man) therefore he is God ENTIRELY. The Bible says that Jesus' Father is the Holy Ghost (therefore if God is Jesus' Father, then God IS the Holy Spirit/Ghost, but NOT the second person of the Godhead, otherwise God is a schizo!)

His LIFE however is his own (John 5:26 explicitly states this), and is very much separate to his Father's.

He is the complete and full expression of God - that's why Jesus said 'if you see me you've seen the Father'.

So he is equal to God, but is not God, since (once more the the dumb ones) you can't be your own Father and there is only ONE God!

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Note the following. Jesus read HALF of a scripture from Isaiah, and said that this day this scripture is fulfilled in your ears:

Luke 4
16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

At his First Coming, Jesus fulfilled half this scripture and said so, the other half he shall fulfill at his Second Coming:

Isaiah 61:

First Half: fulfilled at his First Coming:

1The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,

Second half: to be fulfilled at his Second Coming:

(2 cont.)and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

See then, Jesus came first to set us free by dying for our sins. Next time he will come in judgement and the restitution of all things. And the lion shall lay down with the lamb and a little child shall lead them, etc. This is yet to be...

 

[Mr. Peanut]

I would like also to simply show Isaiah 53, about the Suffering Servant. Jesus always taught that he must suffer according to scripure. he taught that he that would be first must be servant of all and washed his disciples feet. He was the Suffering Servant:

Isaiah 53

1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

There is only one person in all of history that is described by this, in detail, and that is the Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

None of the NT scriptures (Matthew, Mark Luke or John) support the notion Yeshua is God. There was no claim, implicitly or explicitly, made by Yeshua he was God nor did his followers believe he was. This has all been covered in a bunch of threads here.....

 

[Muffled]

I know that there are a good many christians out their who believe that those who follow the jewish religion need to be saved because they do not worship Jesus. So, quick question:

Jesus is God(YHWH). It seems to me that we are worshipping the same deity. Am I correct? Why or why not?

You are correct but the Jews deny God in Jesus and therefore have rejected God and have refused to accept the salvation offered by Him.

The law has no power to save (it only tells you what to do to be saved) but Jesus does:

Eph. 2:8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory.

 

[kai]

not the same ! the Jews reject the Christ god, and the Christians reject the Jews god, if its the same god then he is a schizophrenic or he doesn't have a clue what he is doing down here !

 

[Dirty Penguin]

You are correct but the Jews deny God in Jesus and therefore have rejected God and have refused to accept the salvation offered by Him.

They were justified in denying "God in Yeshua"......Even Yeshua denied he was God.

What they really did was deny him as the promised messiah.

 

[CDB]

'They were justified in denying "God in Yeshua"......Even Yeshua denied he was God.

What they really did was deny him as the promised messiah.'

Jesus denied he was God, but God went in him, so you are right and wrong.

They denied the Son, therefore they denied the Father :

1 John 2:23 (King James Version)



Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

 

[FFH]

CHRIST IS A GOD. NOT AS GREAT AS JEHOVAH (THE FATHER), BUT GOD NONETHELESS.

Jehovah is God the Son (Christ)
Elohim is God the Father (Heavenly Father)
Holy Ghost is God the Father and the Son's Spirit, since they are one in purpose (in my opinion)

 

[CDB]

'Jehovah is God the Son (Christ)
Elohim is God the Father.'

You either have two Gods, or you have the Son being his own Father.

Please explain this impossibility. Backed up with scripture.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

'They were justified in denying "God in Yeshua"......Even Yeshua denied he was God.

What they really did was deny him as the promised messiah.'

Jesus denied he was God, but God went in him, so you are right and wrong.

They denied the Son, therefore they denied the Father :

1 John 2:23 (King James Version)



Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Now before you fired back you should have atleast really read what I wrote. I don't disagree with you at all. I responded to a trinitarian claim that Yeshua is God. I believe the statement was "God in Jesus".......

The jews denied he was the messiah, or sent by his god. They denied the authoruty he was given by his god. I believe there is only one reference where they mis-understood him and thought he was claiming to God or equal to God but as we read further Yeshua immediately responded and cleared up their misconceptions. Yeshua, as observed in the bible, reveals he is not God.

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know you, the only true god and Yeshua the Messiah, whom you have sent.

So basic. So clear. You are God, I am your messiah (ambassador who speaks on your behalf), whom YOU sent......

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Jehovah is God the Son (Christ)
Elohim is God the Father (Heavenly Father)
Holy Ghost is God the Father and the Son's Spirit, since they are one in purpose (in my opinion)

Can you show where the bible confirms this?

From what I have read what you call Jehovah is a variant of YHWH (Yaweh)

Since Jews were not allowd to speak the sacred name of God they used other descriptions such as El, Eloah, Elohim

The Holy Spirit, from what I have read, does not come off as a man but rather God's (power or active force). We know the holy spirit is separate from Yeshua because the scripture gives accounts of the holy spirit in other people at the ime Mary was pregnant. Yeshua was alive for quite sometime before the holy spirit decended upon him. Even after that God's voice is heard from the heavens. I have found nothing in the bible to suggest that the holy spirit was the spirit of Yeshua.