Jesus is God.

[Muffled]

My opinion based on scripture
God knows all things 1 John 3:20
This means the father, the holy spirit, and Jesus know all things because they are all fully god, according to the trinity.
Matthew 24:36 Only the father knows the day and the Hour. What happened to the son, and the holy spirit?

Jesus is in heaven by this time:
Revelation 3:12 he calls the father his god. "I will make him a pillar in the temple of my god"
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 Next Jesus hands over the kingdom to his god and father
Ephesians 1:17 The god of our Lord Jesus Christ
Revelation 1:1 a Revelation which god gave him(Jesus)
Ephesians 4:5,6 one god and father of all who is above all and in all

Other passages:
John 5:30
John 14:28
Luke 18:18,19
John 20:17
1 Corinthians 8:6

I believe know in this case means experience. God is not required to hold onto a body that long if it is not necessary. Not mentioning the Holy Spirit is reasonable considering that He has not been presented yet but my guess is that those who might be left on earth at that time will be extricated so they won't experience that end either.

I believe God is His God. It wouldn't make sense otherwise.

What is your point? I believe that is reasonable to me.

 

[anonymous9887]

I believe know in this case means experience. God is not required to hold onto a body that long if it is not necessary. Not mentioning the Holy Spirit is reasonable considering that He has not been presented yet but my guess is that those who might be left on earth at that time will be extricated so they won't experience that end either.

I believe God is His God. It wouldn't make sense otherwise.

What is your point? I believe that is reasonable to me.

First off:
1. With all due respect your opinion of know meaning experience is not reflected in the greek language used, so it cant be.
2. For god to take on a human form would mean that god added weakness to his nature. So god to be weak is not a possibility for me.
3. next question is to you, are you a oneness person meaning god is one manifesting himself in many ways?
4. My point is that if Jesus is god why would he call the father his god if he is god?

 

[anonymous9887]

I believe know in this case means experience. God is not required to hold onto a body that long if it is not necessary. Not mentioning the Holy Spirit is reasonable considering that He has not been presented yet but my guess is that those who might be left on earth at that time will be extricated so they won't experience that end either.

I believe God is His God. It wouldn't make sense otherwise.

What is your point? I believe that is reasonable to me.

My point also was that GOD knows all things so if the son and the holy spirit are separate persons from the father then they are not all knowing like the father is.

 

[Muffled]

My point also was that GOD knows all things so if the son and the holy spirit are separate persons from the father then they are not all knowing like the father is.

I believe you have not proven this point. The experience in the body is not the same thing as experience out of the body. But one God knows both experiences.

 

[Muffled]

First off:
1. With all due respect your opinion of know meaning experience is not reflected in the greek language used, so it cant be.
2. For god to take on a human form would mean that god added weakness to his nature. So god to be weak is not a possibility for me.
3. next question is to you, are you a oneness person meaning god is one manifesting himself in many ways?
4. My point is that if Jesus is god why would he call the father his god if he is god?

That could be a translation problem since it is doubtful that Jesus spoke Greek but most likely spoke Aramean. I believe the context suggests experience but you can't hang your hat on this when there is contrary evidence.

I believe this is incorrect since God's nature does not change within the body. There is no way to add something material to something spiritual. They can be conjoined but each retains its nature.

I believe God is one but I am not into the manifestation concept.

I believe Jesus often says things for the benefit of those listening.

 

[anonymous9887]

That could be a translation problem since it is doubtful that Jesus spoke Greek but most likely spoke Aramean. I believe the context suggests experience but you can't hang your hat on this when there is contrary evidence.

I believe this is incorrect since God's nature does not change within the body. There is no way to add something material to something spiritual. They can be conjoined but each retains its nature.

I believe God is one but I am not into the manifestation concept.

I believe Jesus often says things for the benefit of those listening.

so do you believe in the trinity or what do you believe in?
please explain your concept of what you believe.
For example did Jesus exist as a distinct person before the world was, or was Jesus the father?

 

[anonymous9887]

That could be a translation problem since it is doubtful that Jesus spoke Greek but most likely spoke Aramean. I believe the context suggests experience but you can't hang your hat on this when there is contrary evidence.

I believe this is incorrect since God's nature does not change within the body. There is no way to add something material to something spiritual. They can be conjoined but each retains its nature.

I believe God is one but I am not into the manifestation concept.

I believe Jesus often says things for the benefit of those listening.

Here is the traditional belief in the trinity, which is why I am confused in your position

1. There is one god
2. there are 3 distinct persons that share the being of god
3. all 3 are omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, and are eternal
4. My arguments show you why this position cannot be.
5. If any one member of the trinity lacks any of those attributes he cannot properly be called god.
6. The father alone is the one who is shown to have all these qualities.

 

[anonymous9887]

That could be a translation problem since it is doubtful that Jesus spoke Greek but most likely spoke Aramean. I believe the context suggests experience but you can't hang your hat on this when there is contrary evidence.

I believe this is incorrect since God's nature does not change within the body. There is no way to add something material to something spiritual. They can be conjoined but each retains its nature.

I believe God is one but I am not into the manifestation concept.

I believe Jesus often says things for the benefit of those listening.

Just had to mention this very quickly:
Scholars and evidence available suggest that Jesus and the apostles used the Septuagint. They actually quote from the Septuagint.

 

[Muffled]

so do you believe in the trinity or what do you believe in?
please explain your concept of what you believe.
For example did Jesus exist as a distinct person before the world was, or was Jesus the father?

I believe in the Trinity the way the Bible describes it.

I believe the Father, Son and Paraclete are one person and one God.

I do not believe Jesus is a distinct person or that He existed before the world. I believe the Spirit of God in Jesus existed before the world but the body came into being at conception.

I believe Jesus and the Father are one. I believe Father and Son are conceptual realities not separate entities.

 

[Muffled]

Here is the traditional belief in the trinity, which is why I am confused in your position

1. There is one god
2. there are 3 distinct persons that share the being of god
3. all 3 are omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, and are eternal
4. My arguments show you why this position cannot be.
5. If any one member of the trinity lacks any of those attributes he cannot properly be called god.
6. The father alone is the one who is shown to have all these qualities.

I believe the Son and the Paraclete can be shown to have those qualities as well.

I believe your arguments are not valid.

 

[anonymous9887]

I believe the Son and the Paraclete can be shown to have those qualities as well.

I believe your arguments are not valid.

1 John 3:20 "God knows all things" ok so here is a quality of god.

Matthew 24:36
"only the father knows the day and the hour"
That means that the son and the spirit did not know the day or the hour, thus cannot be god.

 

[JakofHearts]

God is one in being and 3 in person.

A being is that quality or that essence what makes you what you are, a person is that quality, or that essence that makes you, whom you are. For example, what I am is a human being, and who I am is JakofHearts.

The being = I am a human being
The person = I am JakofHearts

We are human beings and we share that, but none of you share essentially the type of person that I am. We are all different persons.
So the characteristic of a being is very different of a person. I am one being with one person, God is one being with three persons – Father, Son, and Spirit. Is there anything like that on this earth? No. But with God all things are possible; not only that but there is a revelation in the trinity – we see the deeper truths of God’s nature, of what does it mean to be the father?, what does it mean to be the son?, what does it mean to be the Spirit? These are different roles in the trinity and often times people see the terms Son and exert inferiority to the Son. There are scriptures that show this, “For my father is greater than I.” John 14:28.
For example, my father is the CEO of his company and I am under him, he’s at the top. In that sense he is greater than I am, but he is a human being just as I am and we are of the same blood. So my father’s being is essentially equal to mine. He’s a human being and I am a human being, we are equal in that sense; but his role is greater than mine, and for him to be greater makes me subordinate to him.

When Jesus says “The father is greater than I”, the being is equal but the role is different. And this is how the Trinity all comes into focus when we read the Bible.

Some people say that the trinity is not present in the old testament. They say that this was something new that Christians came up with. I disagree. When we understand the New Testament and Jesus Christ’s teachings about his father and the Holy Spirit we begin to see the Old Testament with more clarity, and we begin to see the Trinity and the depth of His being.

Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”

Lets take that back in Hebrew, “Elohim created”. Elohim is plural meaning “gods”, then ‘created’ treats Elohim as singular, so in the first verse of the Bible we see plurality and singularity in the Godhead. And another example in Genesis chapter 1, God the creator refers to Himself as “us”. How can God refer to Himself plurally? God says, Let “us” create man in “our” image. God created man in “His” image. (Gen 1:26 & 3:22) There is plurality and singularity used interchangeably multiple times in the Godhead.

In the Shema this is what the Jews recite twice a day:

A very profound proclamation in a world of polytheism to be found. But that one word, “Echad” is not used to describe a singularity. For example, it is used to describe a cluster of grapes – you would refer to the entire cluster as one cluster; that is what the word “Echad” means. So even in the Shema we have shades of the Trinity.

The Trinity is clarified through the person of Jesus, and it explains so much of what happens in the gospel. I think the Trinity is one of the most beautiful teachings about the depth of God’s character and how He is unlike anything in this universe.

 

[anonymous9887]

I believe in the Trinity the way the Bible describes it.

I believe the Father, Son and Paraclete are one person and one God.

I do not believe Jesus is a distinct person or that He existed before the world. I believe the Spirit of God in Jesus existed before the world but the body came into being at conception.

I believe Jesus and the Father are one. I believe Father and Son are conceptual realities not separate entities.

Jesus is separate from god, this is what the bible teaches in light of these passages:
1. John chapter 1:1 (depending if you render God or a god)
2. Philippians 2:5-7 This is telling us that the person of Jesus Christ emptied himself and did not see equality with god a thing to be grasped. Now the question become When did Jesus empty himself? and when did the person of Jesus come into existence? When did Jesus become Jesus at birth? Was god called Jesus before he was manifest on earth?
3. John 17:5 now father glorify me (Jesus) with the glory I (Jesus) had before the world was. Who or what was at the fathers side before the world was?

4. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 here there are 2 persons talked about, the father, and the son. and the son is subjecting himself to the father. Revelation 3:12 Jesus while in heaven calls the father his god, so he must exist alongside the father.

5. Hebrews 1:3 Jesus is the exact copy of god. greek word charaktér= a reproduction of god

 

[anonymous9887]

God is one in being and 3 in person.

A being is that quality or that essence what makes you what you are, a person is that quality, or that essence that makes you, whom you are. For example, what I am is a human being, and who I am is JakofHearts.

The being = I am a human being
The person = I am JakofHearts

We are human beings and we share that, but none of you share essentially the type of person that I am. We are all different persons.
So the characteristic of a being is very different of a person. I am one being with one person, God is one being with three persons – Father, Son, and Spirit. Is there anything like that on this earth? No. But with God all things are possible; not only that but there is a revelation in the trinity – we see the deeper truths of God’s nature, of what does it mean to be the father?, what does it mean to be the son?, what does it mean to be the Spirit? These are different roles in the trinity and often times people see the terms Son and exert inferiority to the Son. There are scriptures that show this, “For my father is greater than I.” John 14:28.
For example, my father is the CEO of his company and I am under him, he’s at the top. In that sense he is greater than I am, but he is a human being just as I am and we are of the same blood. So my father’s being is essentially equal to mine. He’s a human being and I am a human being, we are equal in that sense; but his role is greater than mine, and for him to be greater makes me subordinate to him.

When Jesus says “The father is greater than I”, the being is equal but the role is different. And this is how the Trinity all comes into focus when we read the Bible.

Some people say that the trinity is not present in the old testament. They say that this was something new that Christians came up with. I disagree. When we understand the New Testament and Jesus Christ’s teachings about his father and the Holy Spirit we begin to see the Old Testament with more clarity, and we begin to see the Trinity and the depth of His being.

Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”

Lets take that back in Hebrew, “Elohim created”. Elohim is plural meaning “gods”, then ‘created’ treats Elohim as singular, so in the first verse of the Bible we see plurality and singularity in the Godhead. And another example in Genesis chapter 1, God the creator refers to Himself as “us”. How can God refer to Himself plurally? God says, Let “us” create man in “our” image. God created man in “His” image. (Gen 1:26 & 3:22) There is plurality and singularity used interchangeably multiple times in the Godhead.

In the Shema this is what the Jews recite twice a day:

A very profound proclamation in a world of polytheism to be found. But that one word, “Echad” is not used to describe a singularity. For example, it is used to describe a cluster of grapes – you would refer to the entire cluster as one cluster; that is what the word “Echad” means. So even in the Shema we have shades of the Trinity.

The Trinity is clarified through the person of Jesus, and it explains so much of what happens in the gospel. I think the Trinity is one of the most beautiful teachings about the depth of God’s character and how He is unlike anything in this universe.

1. According to the theory of plurality with the word elohim the anytime the word is used in that tense it signifies plurality. Exodus 7:1 YHWH tells moses I have made you elohim to pharaoh. Does that signify plurality?

2. Ok lets go with your illustration of CEO being greater in position but of the same substance (human). Consider the following:
- That means that the father, the son, and the spirit are all of the same substance they are all fully god.
- What makes god, god? God is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient If any of these members fail to have these qualities they cannot be god, because god is all 3 of these. Proverbs 15:3, Hebrews 4:13, 1 John 3:20, Job 34:10( el shaddai or almighty)

3. Now lets examine Matthew 24:36
- no one knows the day or the hour "only" the father knows the day and the hour
- now people say that Jesus was in the flesh, but if the spirit is a person, why does he not know the day or the hour.

Why does Jesus while in heaven say he has a god if he is god (Revelation 3:12)?

how about 1 Corinthians 15:24-28, Well I guess you would explain this as Them participating differently in the god head.

Ephesians 4:5,6 One god and father of all who is above all and in all.
John 17:3 this means everlasting life there coming to know you (not us) the only true god.

 

[JakofHearts]

1. According to the theory of plurality with the word elohim the anytime the word is used in that tense it signifies plurality. Exodus 7:1 YHWH tells moses I have made you elohim to pharaoh. Does that signify plurality?

By simply reading the context of Exodus 7:1, God said to Moses He will make him like "a god" to pharoah. There is no mention of interchangeability between God (YHWH) and Moses like what we have with Jesus and God, only that God made Moses "like a god". I tend to use the KJV when dealing with theology.

2. Ok lets go with your illustration of CEO being greater in position but of the same substance (human). Consider the following:
- That means that the father, the son, and the spirit are all of the same substance they are all fully god.
- What makes god, god? God is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient If any of these members fail to have these qualities they cannot be god, because god is all 3 of these. Proverbs 15:3, Hebrews 4:13, 1 John 3:20, Job 34:10( el shaddai or almighty)
3. Now lets examine Matthew 24:36
- no one knows the day or the hour "only" the father knows the day and the hour
- now people say that Jesus was in the flesh, but if the spirit is a person, why does he not know the day or the hour.

If we comprehend, When Jesus says “The father is greater than I”, the being is equal but the role is different. I know this may seem difficult to understand at first because of the rather simplified formula to explain a being beyond comprehension, but there are understandable reasons.

# Why does Jesus while in heaven say he has a god if he is god (Revelation 3:12)?
# how about 1 Corinthians 15:24-28, Well I guess you would explain this as Them participating differently in the god head.
# Ephesians 4:5,6 One god and father of all who is above all and in all.
# John 17:3 this means everlasting life there coming to know you (not us) the only true god.

These questions here don't inherently contradict the trinity when you have a deeper understanding of what the trinity is. We cannot comprehend it, but we can logically explain how God's nature far exceeds our comprehensions. I'll link you to a video that attempts to explain this in detail which you may find informative on understanding a being 4th dimensional being in a 3rd dimensional reality. It's rather easy to understand than it sounds. Also, the prophecy of the church of Philadelphia is known to be cryptic but I think Jesus speaks plainly and in 3rd person about his second coming. I personally need to educate myself more on Revelation.

 

[anonymous9887]

By simply reading the context of Exodus 7:1, God said to Moses He will make him like "a god" to pharoah. There is no mention of interchangeability between God (YHWH) and Moses like what we have with Jesus and God, only that God made Moses "like a god". I tend to use the KJV when dealing with theology.


If we comprehend, When Jesus says “The father is greater than I”, the being is equal but the role is different. I know this may seem difficult to understand at first because of the rather simplified formula to explain a being beyond comprehension, but there are understandable reasons.


These questions here don't inherently contradict the trinity when you have a deeper understanding of what the trinity is. We cannot comprehend it, but we can logically explain how God's nature far exceeds our comprehensions. I'll link you to a video that attempts to explain this in detail which you may find informative on understanding a being 4th dimensional being in a 3rd dimensional reality. It's rather easy to understand than it sounds. Also, the prophecy of the church of Philadelphia is known to be cryptic but I think Jesus speaks plainly and in 3rd person about his second coming. I personally need to educate myself more on Revelation.

Well if you look at the hebrew exodus 7:1 punch this in on google Edodus 7:1 in hebrew text analysis, then you can see the clickable hebrew words. Bible hub.

I have studied in depth the trinity, thats why I am trying to present to you a possible alternative. God in his nature is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient so if the members of the trinity dont have these traits they are not GOD. Scholars never give a sensible reply as to why The spirit does not know the day and the hour if the spirit did not empty himself the way Christ did.

Think about it what if I gave you an explanation and then I told you to believe it, but you cant understand it, doesn't that concern you?

 

[anonymous9887]

By simply reading the context of Exodus 7:1, God said to Moses He will make him like "a god" to pharoah. There is no mention of interchangeability between God (YHWH) and Moses like what we have with Jesus and God, only that God made Moses "like a god". I tend to use the KJV when dealing with theology.


If we comprehend, When Jesus says “The father is greater than I”, the being is equal but the role is different. I know this may seem difficult to understand at first because of the rather simplified formula to explain a being beyond comprehension, but there are understandable reasons.


These questions here don't inherently contradict the trinity when you have a deeper understanding of what the trinity is. We cannot comprehend it, but we can logically explain how God's nature far exceeds our comprehensions. I'll link you to a video that attempts to explain this in detail which you may find informative on understanding a being 4th dimensional being in a 3rd dimensional reality. It's rather easy to understand than it sounds. Also, the prophecy of the church of Philadelphia is known to be cryptic but I think Jesus speaks plainly and in 3rd person about his second coming. I personally need to educate myself more on Revelation.

not once did they bring up a scripture to prove the trinitarian god.

 

[1robin]

Jesus (pbuh) never claim to be, that's authors claims.

GOD after dozens of Prophets that He sent, why He should sent Him-self !

Because before the foundation of the world it was decided that that is exactly how would redeem a fallen race of humans powerless to save themselves. Prior prophets pointed to a future incarnation and later prophets pointed back to the incarnation. Asking why God did a thing a certain way is not an argument that he didn't. That and because he wanted to. What argument do you have that God could in fact not do as he himself wished to? You need to get a new God if the one you have cannot do as he wishes, you need to trade him in for a more capable and less self contradictory one.

 

[JakofHearts]

Well if you look at the hebrew exodus 7:1 punch this in on google Edodus 7:1 in hebrew text analysis, then you can see the clickable hebrew words. Bible hub.

I have studied in depth the trinity, thats why I am trying to present to you a possible alternative. God in his nature is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient so if the members of the trinity dont have these traits they are not GOD. Scholars never give a sensible reply as to why The spirit does not know the day and the hour if the spirit did not empty himself the way Christ did.

Think about it what if I gave you an explanation and then I told you to believe it, but you cant understand it, doesn't that concern you?

Regarding Exodus 7:1 context is important which you tend to shy away from here. I'm all for Hebrew text as I as well accommodate it into my understandings about God's word. For example I am commonly engaged with questions regarding the moral aspects about the Bible which I'm sure you also have confronted. I'm not sure where you stand on the issue but for me I do consider the Bible to be the inspired, infallible, authoritative Word of God. One example would be "thou shall not kill", yet with understanding the Hebrew text we get "thou shall not murder", and the reasons behind it. Point is, using the tools we have at our disposal to understand the what's, and why's, and who's and how's we can interpret things more openly from the acquired angles given. And perhaps a better understanding of the bigger picture.

I think you have some sort of restrictions you have placed upon yourself on what you study about the trinity or any other Bible related issues, which more often than not is detrimental to actual logical, factual theological aspects to be found. I think that's why you hold to your presuppositions which I have heard before numerous times and found to be lacking.

 

[anonymous9887]

Regarding Exodus 7:1 context is important which you tend to shy away from here. I'm all for Hebrew text as I as well accommodate it into my understandings about God's word. For example I am commonly engaged with questions regarding the moral aspects about the Bible which I'm sure you also have confronted. I'm not sure where you stand on the issue but for me I do consider the Bible to be the inspired, infallible, authoritative Word of God. One example would be "thou shall not kill", yet with understanding the Hebrew text we get "thou shall not murder", and the reasons behind it. Point is, using the tools we have at our disposal to understand the what's, and why's, and who's and how's we can interpret things more openly from the acquired angles given. And perhaps a better understanding of the bigger picture.

I think you have some sort of restrictions you have placed upon yourself on what you study about the trinity or any other Bible related issues, which more often than not is detrimental to actual logical, factual theological aspects to be found. I think that's why you hold to your presuppositions which I have heard before numerous times and found to be lacking.

What I am telling you is common sense, a child could understand:
1. God is omniscient, Omnipotent, and omnipresent anything less and he is not god.
2. The Bible my final authority says that only the father knows all thing Matthew 24:36 only the father. But the 1 John 3:20 says God knows all things.
3. The Bible does not teach a Trinity.