"Jesus is the only way": required or not for a Christian?

[Shushersbedamned]

I don't think the Bible is concerned with semantics, it's more about the general message.

That's like the job of the worst editor ever.

"Who gives a ****, just get the bottom line right"

 

[Shushersbedamned]

What does it mean to believe in Jesus?

I was told about that question and the answer in school in third grade or so. And yet I run into Christians that believe themselves to be better than other Christians and who nullify that what the teachers told us. Which was of common sense.

 

[Muffled]

I believe that Jesus' sacrifice is the only mechanism by which the gap between man's nature of selfishness and God's nature of love could be bridged; thus, no one is able to enter into the presence of God except by way of Jesus.

However, I also believe that this mechanism works implicitly for honest seekers of God in ALL religions. Anyone who seeks God can find Him, and can enter into the presence of God, because of Jesus' sacrifice, even for those who are ignorant of that mechanism. So it is true that no man comes to the Father except by Jesus, but it is not true that one has to be a Christian to enter into the presence of God (to be "saved," or granted eternal life with God).

And I have other sheep [beside these] that are not of this fold. I must bring and impel those also; and they will listen to My voice and heed My call, and so there will be [they will become] one flock under one Shepherd.
--John 10:16 (Amplified Bible)

I believe reconciliation is available in most religions but this is definitely the ultimate God can do. The problem is that men are forgiven and then just keep on sinning. Only a person who receives Jesus as Lord and Savior ceases from sin.

Mat. 25: 46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

 

[stvdv]

I believe that is speculation. I have not seen it expressed anywhere in Christianity

That's quite obvious. Jesus lived around year zero. Many people believed the earth was flat. Talking about speculations.
Bahai is a much more recent revelation around 1850. So yes, obvious it's not expressed anywhere in Christianity.
It seems hard for Christians to accept that Christianity needed an update. But when using common sense it is easy to understand.

 

[stvdv]

Only a person who receives Jesus as Lord and Savior ceases from sin

Define "sin". Jesus asks us not to judge. You obviously judge a lot. So according to your above claim you have not received Jesus as Lord and Savior

 

[Muffled]

@KenS: Yes I agree with you IF you don't exclude non-christians who follow their belief system. No, if you say that other religions won't lead to salvation. See also the replies @Axe Elf [very creative and clear information IMHO]


This is a post from 2013: Summarizes it also very clear IMHO

When I was 10 years old I debated my Christian mother and told her. 2000 years ago, there was no Jesus, so all were doomed, no chance to reach God. And how about those not knowing Jesus. Or those believing in another messenger God sent them. They were false? God sent them liars? The God that you say is Loving?
[This part is not for debate; I was 10 years old that time. But still quite spot on then, I still think]

I believe the Qu'ran says that Jesus was given the Gospel. If a Muslim wanted good news he should have asked someone associated with Jesus ie a Christian.

I believe the Gospel has been preached all over the earth so there is no excuse.

 

[Muffled]

Define "sin". Jesus asks us not to judge. You obviously judge a lot. So according to your above claim you have not received Jesus as Lord and Savior

I believe you are mistake I have not judged, Jesus has judged.

I believe this is a false conclusion because the premise is false.

 

[stvdv]

I believe you are mistake I have not judged, Jesus has judged.

I believe this is a false conclusion because the premise is false.

I agree that the above conlusion is false.
I love the beautiful colors you used.

 

[Axe Elf]

I believe reconciliation is available in most religions but this is definitely the ultimate God can do. The problem is that men are forgiven and then just keep on sinning. Only a person who receives Jesus as Lord and Savior ceases from sin.

Mat. 25: 46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

I don't believe anyone ever stops sinning; it's still our human nature to separate ourselves from God.

There's a great passage in Romans about the frustration of continuing to sin even when your redeemed nature abhors it:

For I do not understand my own actions [I am baffled, bewildered]. I do not practice or accomplish what I wish, but I do the very thing that I loathe [which my moral instinct condemns]. Now if I do [habitually] what is contrary to my desire, [that means that] I acknowledge and agree that the Law is good (morally excellent) and that I take sides with it. However, it is no longer I who do the deed, but the sin [principle] which is at home in me and has possession of me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it. [I have the intention and urge to do what is right, but no power to carry it out.] For I fail to practice the good deeds I desire to do, but the evil deeds that I do not desire to do are what I am [ever] doing. Now if I do what I do not desire to do, it is no longer I doing it [it is not myself that acts], but the sin [principle] which dwells within me [fixed and operating in my soul]. So I find it to be a law (rule of action of my being) that when I want to do what is right and good, evil is ever present with me and I am subject to its insistent demands. For I endorse and delight in the Law of God in my inmost self [with my new nature]. But I discern in my bodily members [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh] a different law (rule of action) at war against the law of my mind (my reason) and making me a prisoner to the law of sin that dwells in my bodily organs [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh]. O unhappy and pitiable and wretched man that I am! Who will release and deliver me from [the shackles of] this body of death? O thank God! [He will!] through Jesus Christ (the Anointed One) our Lord! So then indeed I, of myself with the mind and heart, serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
--Romans 7:15-25 (Amplified Bible)

 

[whirlingmerc]

I like science because it filters out mistakes made in "blind faith"

Matthew 22:37-39 New International Version (NIV)
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.

a) "like" implies first and second commandments are equally "greatest commandment"
b) "like" implies following second commandment is enough to follow
c) Jesus tells what is needed AND does NOT mention "Jesus is the only way" as being essential

No scientific definition, let alone proof, of a physical God. So for the sake of argument and simplicity, I think it's good to skip 22:37 and stick to 22:38+39

If first commandment = second commandment ("like") both are greatest meaning all others are subordinate, and can be discarded if they are "opposing first and/or second commandment". So for simplicity stick to "opposing second commentment".

* Masters are known to be smart and wise and accurate. Jesus addresses a group here, and gives them advise. He does NOT explicitly say "this is for all", nor "this is universal, for all time". So I think it is wise NOT to read more into His words.

* At least it might be safe to assume: Advise was meant for Christians at that time.

* This poll is NOT about whether or not it is meant for non Christians. Just to keep it simple

From the above it seems to me reasonable to conclude the following:
A = For a good Christian "Jesus is the only way" is not essential to believe in
B = For a good Christian "God, and knowledge of God" is not essential


1): As a Christian I agree to A + B [God+Jesus is not essential to believe in]
2): As a Christian I do not agree to A + B [God+Jesus is not essential to believe in]
3): As a non Christian I agree to A + B [God+Jesus is not essential to believe in]
4): As a non Christian I do not agree to A + B [God+Jesus is not essential to believe in]

*: Note: @Windwalker: I brought in "Jesus is the only way", because about all Christians I met tell me believing this is essential for being a Christian while I believe the above verse (Mt 22:39) is essential. I am curious if other Christians have different views [I hope this solves confusion]

The example of God fearing Cornelius seems to indicate that, yes even a respectable person whi seeks God and gives to the poor needs salvation ... see Acts 10 and 11... the story of Cornelius was told by Luke 4 times in a row for emphasis. 4 repeats of the same story.

 

[Muffled]

I agree that the above conlusion is false.
I love the beautiful colors you used.

I believe if you are referring to where the judgment comes from you must present your arguments and I will present mine.

Col 3:3 For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

 

[Muffled]

I don't believe anyone ever stops sinning; it's still our human nature to separate ourselves from God.

There's a great passage in Romans about the frustration of continuing to sin even when your redeemed nature abhors it:

For I do not understand my own actions [I am baffled, bewildered]. I do not practice or accomplish what I wish, but I do the very thing that I loathe [which my moral instinct condemns]. Now if I do [habitually] what is contrary to my desire, [that means that] I acknowledge and agree that the Law is good (morally excellent) and that I take sides with it. However, it is no longer I who do the deed, but the sin [principle] which is at home in me and has possession of me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it. [I have the intention and urge to do what is right, but no power to carry it out.] For I fail to practice the good deeds I desire to do, but the evil deeds that I do not desire to do are what I am [ever] doing. Now if I do what I do not desire to do, it is no longer I doing it [it is not myself that acts], but the sin [principle] which dwells within me [fixed and operating in my soul]. So I find it to be a law (rule of action of my being) that when I want to do what is right and good, evil is ever present with me and I am subject to its insistent demands. For I endorse and delight in the Law of God in my inmost self [with my new nature]. But I discern in my bodily members [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh] a different law (rule of action) at war against the law of my mind (my reason) and making me a prisoner to the law of sin that dwells in my bodily organs [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh]. O unhappy and pitiable and wretched man that I am! Who will release and deliver me from [the shackles of] this body of death? O thank God! [He will!] through Jesus Christ (the Anointed One) our Lord! So then indeed I, of myself with the mind and heart, serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
--Romans 7:15-25 (Amplified Bible)

I believe you are correct. We are not sinless but we do sin less. I am without sin when I allow the Paraclete to work in me because He is without sin.

 

[stvdv]

Only a person who receives Jesus as Lord and Savior ceases from sin.

Define "sin". Jesus asks us not to judge. You obviously judge a lot. So according to your above claim you have not received Jesus as Lord and Savior

I believe if you are referring to where the judgment comes from you must present your arguments and I will present mine.
Col 3:3 For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

This was quite an old post. Not my choice to continue, I just ended it friendly, but you insist to continue.

My guru says: "He who receives Me as Lord and Savior and offers all thoughts/words/deed to me, ceases from sin"
My guru says: "All religions are a path to God; chose whichever feels best for you"
My guru says: "Nobody has the right to judge the Believe System of someone else"

You said "Only a person who receives Jesus as Lord and Savior ceases from sin"

So you were judging "All Belief Systems other than believing in Jesus".

I was not judging your belief system in Jesus. It's okay for me if you follow Jesus, I don't stop you. I don't critisize you. You will reach your goal [Deo volente]
But the moment you demean another Belief System then I just tell you the truth "You are judging other Belief Systems" and you have no right to do that.

I tell you because this is called "Black Magic". It's my duty to stop "Black Magic" the moment it raises its hood. It's the serpent from Genesis.
[Google: "black magic, including various spells". You use words to demean the Belief System of others. Others even introduce 'hell' to be more convincing. And some even use 'devils' to scare people into joining their religion. I stop it as soon as I see it"]

 

[Muffled]

This was quite an old post. Not my choice to continue, I just ended it friendly, but you insist to continue.

My guru says: "He who receives Me as Lord and Savior and offers all thoughts/words/deed to me, ceases from sin"
My guru says: "All religions are a path to God; chose whichever feels best for you"
My guru says: "Nobody has the right to judge the Believe System of someone else"

You said "Only a person who receives Jesus as Lord and Savior ceases from sin"

So you were judging "All Belief Systems other than believing in Jesus".

I was not judging your belief system in Jesus. It's okay for me if you follow Jesus, I don't stop you. I don't critisize you. You will reach your goal [Deo volente]
But the moment you demean another Belief System then I just tell you the truth "You are judging other Belief Systems" and you have no right to do that.

I tell you because this is called "Black Magic". It's my duty to stop "Black Magic" the moment it raises its hood. It's the serpent from Genesis.
[Google: "black magic, including various spells". You use words to demean the Belief System of others. Others even introduce 'hell' to be more convincing. And some even use 'devils' to scare people into joining their religion. I stop it as soon as I see it"]

Joh 5:30 I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

By whose authority since mine comes from God.

I believe that is blasphemy. In essence you are calling God evil.

I believe he can say that but is he without sin as Jesus is? or is he the blind leading the blind. And does he have the power to take over your body and would you trust him with it?

 

[stvdv]

Joh 5:30 I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
By whose authority since mine comes from God.
I believe that is blasphemy. In essence you are calling God evil.

I believe he can say that but is he without sin as Jesus is? or is he the blind leading the blind. And does he have the power to take over your body and would you trust him with it?

II believe that is blasphemy. In essence you are calling God evil.
I did not call "God evil". I don't know where you get this from. Not from me !!!

You never met Jesus, still you believe in Jesus. I don't question your belief.
I met my Master and stayed for 10 years in His House. You can fantasize whatever you like about my Master.
But do you think that your fantasy makes any sense. You judge without knowing anything.

I trust my Master with my life. And He saved my life a few times. So I have personal "hard evidence".

What more can I say? Nothing ! You believe what you believe. Useless to talk, because you are already prejudiced anyway. Talking with someone who has a "fixed opinion" and is therefore closed to anything, makes no sense at all.

So let's agree to disagree on this.

 

[savagewind]

Joh 5:30 I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

By whose authority since mine comes from God.

I believe that is blasphemy. In essence you are calling God evil.

I believe he can say that but is he without sin as Jesus is? or is he the blind leading the blind. And does he have the power to take over your body and would you trust him with it?

I am sure you know that the Bible is not God.

 

[sojourner]

I believe that Jesus' sacrifice is the only mechanism by which the gap between man's nature of selfishness and God's nature of love could be bridged; thus, no one is able to enter into the presence of God except by way of Jesus.

However, I also believe that this mechanism works implicitly for honest seekers of God in ALL religions. Anyone who seeks God can find Him, and can enter into the presence of God, because of Jesus' sacrifice, even for those who are ignorant of that mechanism. So it is true that no man comes to the Father except by Jesus, but it is not true that one has to be a Christian to enter into the presence of God (to be "saved," or granted eternal life with God).

And I have other sheep [beside these] that are not of this fold. I must bring and impel those also; and they will listen to My voice and heed My call, and so there will be [they will become] one flock under one Shepherd.
--John 10:16 (Amplified Bible)

I agree with this, especially if, by “sacrifice,” you mean, not just the crucifixion, but the sacrifice of the Incarnation — that is, God sacrificed God’s Divinity by giving it up to become one of us. I don’t buy into substitutionary atonement. But God giving up Divinity marks a salvific act on God’s part, by crossing the gap for us.

The parable of the leaven is cogent here: The kingdom of God is like leaven that a woman mixed in with a lump of dough, until the whole lump was leavened. Leaven isn’t like modern yeast. Leaven is poisonous. God became poison — became “dirty” for us who are incapable of becoming “clean” enough. God created equity.

 

[sojourner]

If space and time are but two aspects of the same thing, then the act of creation not only established all of space, but it established all of time as well. If we were outside of time, we could see all of eternity, fixed in time, stretched out across forever, with any and every moment available for scrutiny. Each moment exists, has always existed, and will always exist, just as it was created.

Kurt Vonnegut explored the concept of a consciousness that was able to move among predetermined moments in "Slaughterhouse Five." The main character is kidnapped by aliens, who are able to see all of time at once, and he writes about them like so...

"The most important thing I learned on Tralfamadore was that when a person dies he only appears to die. He is still very much alive in the past, so it is very silly for people to cry at his funeral. All moments, past, present and future, always have existed, always will exist. The Tralfamadorians can look at all the different moments just that way we can look at a stretch of the Rocky Mountains, for instance. They can see how permanent all the moments are, and they can look at any moment that interests them. It is just an illusion we have here on Earth that one moment follows another one, like beads on a string, and that once a moment is gone it is gone forever. When a Tralfamadorian sees a corpse, all he thinks is that the dead person is in a bad condition in that particular moment, but that the same person is just fine in plenty of other moments."

So the event of Jesus' death exists, has always existed, and will always exist, just like every other moment, as a fixed part of the fabric of reality.

That’s compelling, but, if the person is alive at all moments because he was alive in the past, is he not also dead in all moments, because he is dead now and in future moments?

 

[sojourner]

First a person would have to take notice, That Jesus was answering a question that Jesus was ask.
To love your neighbour as yourself.
Now seeing Jesus was speaking to those of Israel, Who is Israel's neighbour ?

As the neighbour's of the United States, being Mexico and Canada.

So seeing the Samaritans worship and believed in the same God as Israel did.Thereby becoming Israel's neighbour.

The Samaritans were not of Israel, But the Samaritans lived next to Israel and worship and believed in the same God as did Israel.

Thereby being Israel's closest neighbour, at the time.

A persons neighbour are those who worships and believe in the same God as they do.

Just because Mexico and Canada borders the United States, does not mean they are the United States neighbour's, Unless they worship and believe in the same God as the United States does, And then Mexico and Canada becomes the neighbour's of the United States.

There are many other people who lives around Israel, As they do to day, But they are not considered Israel's neighbour's, For this very reason, that they do not worship or believe in the same God as Israel does.

But as for the United States, is Israel's closest neighbour, for the simple reason, the United States worships and believe in the same God as Israel does.

But yet the United States and Israel are separated by oceans of water. But yet the United States and Israel are neighbour's.

Let's for say, that Atheists lives next door to me, that does not mean that they are my neighbour, My neighbour are those who worships and believes in the same God as I do.

According to the Bible, a neighbor is the one who acts with compassion where compassion is least expected to come from, even though they are not considered as neighbors. You’re confounding the parable and changing its meaning. It doesn’t have anything to do with “worshiping the same God.” It has everything to do with tearing down walls of prejudice.

 

[sojourner]

Jesus doesn't say to choose the best way for you. He says there is only one way

The “way,” though, is what he is teaching: love. The “way” isn’t the precise person. Jesus embodies the love, compassion, forbearance, forgiveness, mercy, and hospitality that comprise “the way.” When we embody those things, we come to God.